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  #1  
01-07-2012, 08:32 PM
Mejnour Mejnour is offline
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Originally Posted by kpmedia View Post
[*]Audio mixer boards, to adjust EQ and gain; for example: Behringer Xenyx 802 with EQs
I didn't see this device in the Video workflow section, I am guessing that it's optional?
This mixer "bost" audio signal from VCR before entering in the sound card?
Avoiding listening background noise when putting the volume very high?
About soundcards, any turtle beach or soundblaster models would do the job?

Thanks


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  #2  
01-09-2012, 02:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mejnour View Post
I didn't see this device in the Video workflow section, I am guessing that it's optional? This mixer "bost" audio signal from VCR before entering in the sound card? Avoiding listening background noise when putting the volume very high?
Correct. By adjusting gain on the mixer, you increase the volume of actual sound above that of noise -- assuming the noise is already relatively low compared against the "good" audio. The EQ adjustments will further allow some tweaking of noise, as hiss is mostly high frequency sounds. You can safely carve into higher frequencies without losing much sound fidelity on VHS. Consumer tape formats are already somewhat crummy for audio quality, and that was made worse by amateur/consumer video cameras, tapes and VCRs.

If the noise is at a similar volume, or louder -- meaning a poor signal-to-noise ratio (SNR) -- then you'll end up amplifying both noise and audio. Sometimes that's good, sometimes not.

Quote:
About soundcards, any turtle beach or soundblaster models would do the job? Thanks
Yes. Turtle Beach is out of the sound card business, and has been for a few years now. If you can still find a card, great. Most people will be using Creative Sound Blaster cards these days, for setups that involve certain hardware. For example, when using ATI All In Wonder Radeon cards.

Quote:
before entering in the sound card?
Just to clarify this, since I know you're making reference to the ATI All In Wonder Radeon cards, you will not be putting audio directly into the sound card on the computer. You'll need to input audio using the purple or domino breakout box/dongle.

If you need help setting up the hardware, refer to this post: No sound on ATI All In Wonder capture?

Those two methods are the only proper way to connect the audio card to the ATI All In Wonder Radeon cards. Bypassing the ATI hardware, and going directly into the sound card, is not suggested. There may be consequences with audio offset by not routing audio through the hardware as designed.

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  #3  
01-09-2012, 08:25 AM
Mejnour Mejnour is offline
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Thanks for your answer,

Got many hit on ebay for turtle beach and creative sound blaster, I would appreciate specific model reference that would match my x600pro PCI, it will narrow my search, also beeing in Canada, I have to look for sellers that ship outside of US...
To all, any recommended models suggestions would be welcome because it will allow me more flexibility for my shipping situation.

Have a nice day
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  #4  
01-09-2012, 02:39 PM
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Santa Cruz and Riviera are nice. I'd opt for a Turtle Beach Santa Cruz card above all others. Those cards have never let us down here. I see a few of those cards available from sellers who ship internationally. The original price of those cards was about $50, so I'd be willing to pay up to that amount total (including any shipping costs, should you buy one from Europe). It's a good card, so don't let cheapness get the better of you.

Older Creative Sound Blaster cards are a bit hit-or-miss on older motherboards. (Newer SB cards generally have no issues.)

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  #5  
01-09-2012, 03:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kpmedia View Post
Santa Cruz and Riviera are nice. I'd opt for a Turtle Beach Santa Cruz card above all others. Those cards have never let us down here. I see a few of those cards available from sellers who ship internationally. The original price of those cards was about $50, so I'd be willing to pay up to that amount total (including any shipping costs, should you buy one from Europe). It's a good card, so don't let cheapness get the better of you.

Older Creative Sound Blaster cards are a bit hit-or-miss on older motherboards. (Newer SB cards generally have no issues.)
Thanks

Finally I think I found my "vintage" hardware.
ASUS P458X-X motherboard 2.8 Ghz/1GB RAM
How ironic this motherboard is already equiped with a ALL-IN-WONDER 9600 (I already purchased a X600 pro PCI express). Should I change it?
Audio card is a Sound Blaster SB0060 I read some issue with some SB card I don't know about my sound card, should I try it or simply order a turtle beach sound card?

Just a idea: Since I have 2 All-In-wonder card, can I use one just for audio?

HolyJolly this MOTHERBOARD DON'T ACCEPT PCIexpress

Guess I can try to find a ASUS or intel motherboard P4 with AGP; PCI and PCI-e slut if it exist...

In your initial response you explain the benefits of audio mixer. Reading the section "restoring audio quality" I realize that software can do some restoring job. My question : This 2 methods are equally good? or it is like for video, you should do all what you can to improve quality before the capture?
THanks

Last edited by Mejnour; 01-09-2012 at 04:47 PM.
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  #6  
01-09-2012, 07:34 PM
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I guess it will be easier to find a core-duo with PCI and PCIe slut (vs P4). I assume that hardware specifications in the video guide must be seen as "at least" requirement...? Don't tell me that I risk to have issue if I have "newer prossesor"

THanks
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  #7  
01-21-2012, 02:23 PM
Mejnour Mejnour is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kpmedia View Post


Just to clarify this, since I know you're making reference to the ATI All In Wonder Radeon cards, you will not be putting audio directly into the sound card on the computer. You'll need to input audio using the purple or domino breakout box/dongle.

If you need help setting up the hardware, refer to this post: No sound on ATI All In Wonder capture?
Hello Again,

Finally I am in the cable path thinking

Now I know what you are talking about when you say domino breakout box/dongle.

As I read in digitalfaq guide review. It's not time to be cheap on cables when you're doing capture with great hardware devices.

I was wondering if this domino/dongle are cheap cable? meaning that even if you have very good S-video cable, this part will just screw your set-up?

Also I noticed that my card is equiped of this kind of outpout that I will have to use to connect the domino box/dongle to it. So I have to use 2 connectors to send signal to the card!? Guess that the way to do it!

Also I notice that I cannot link externally my video card to my sound card, so I WILL have to link in interally like in the previous link in the above message?

THanks


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  #8  
01-23-2012, 06:23 PM
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About Behringer mixer.

I would like to know if I should put it before or after TBC?

Since for my S-VHS capturing project the audio is 98% human voice talking (conferences).

Do I have advantage to take Behringer XENYX802 over Behringer XENYX502

Here is a small comparaison article

I guess 502 is just fine but maybe I am missing something.

Thanks
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  #9  
01-24-2012, 03:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mejnour View Post
Finally I think I found my "vintage" hardware. ASUS P458X-X motherboard 2.8 Ghz/1GB RAM
Looks fine.

Quote:
How ironic this motherboard is already equiped with a ALL-IN-WONDER 9600 (I already purchased a X600 pro PCI express). Should I change it?
No. The ATI AIW 9600 card is excellent. Leave it.

[quote]
Quote:
Audio card is a Sound Blaster SB0060 I read some issue with some SB card I don't know about my sound card, should I try it or simply order a turtle beach sound card?
Try it first, and see what happens.

Quote:
Just a idea: Since I have 2 All-In-wonder card, can I use one just for audio?
I don't understand the question. You only want/need one capture card in a computer. In the case of these specifics cards, the ATI All In Wonder Radeon series cards, you also need an audio card for audio processing. The ATI card captures video, and passes audio into the soundcard. Sync is maintained without issue, on all but a few flaky/cheaply-made audio cards. A lot of people used to believe in nonsense referred to as "audio lock" on competing hardware (Canopus), but that was just marketing propaganda. Even "locked' audio can drift, when hardware is unstable or weak.

Quote:
HolyJolly this MOTHERBOARD DON'T ACCEPT PCIexpress
Guess I can try to find a ASUS or intel motherboard P4 with AGP; PCI and PCI-e slut if it exist...
I'm no sure I understand the issue here. You've mentioned an AGP board, and an ATI AIW 9600 Radeon AGP card. Both are AGP, and should work well together. There's no need for a PCI Express bus here.

Quote:
In your initial response you explain the benefits of audio mixer. Reading the section "restoring audio quality" I realize that software can do some restoring job. My question : This 2 methods are equally good? or it is like for video, you should do all what you can to improve quality before the capture?
It's like video -- you want to process as much as possible in hardware. And then use software to either perform tasks not possible in hardware -- like complex deinterlacing for video, or noise cancelling dehiss in audio. Or to further correct issues not completely resolved in hardware -- such as audio gain in software like Sound Forge, or color correction in Adobe Premiere Pro.

Quote:
I guess it will be easier to find a core-duo with PCI and PCIe slut (vs P4). I assume that hardware specifications in the video guide must be seen as "at least" requirement...? Don't tell me that I risk to have issue if I have "newer prossesor"
Actually, there are risks with newer hardware. I've seen quad-core systems not work as desired with ATI All In Wonder cards. You're generally best off using hardware from the same generation. Most of the ATI AIW PCI-e cards are from 2006, and hardware from 2005-2007 tends to work best when building the computer. By "hardware" I refer mainly to motherboard and CPU -- not really RAM, power supplies, SATA drives, DVD burners, etc.

That guide is accurate, but also outdated. Nothing there is wrong, but there is room for growth, additions, and other updates that acknowledge and address the multi-core computer generation. A new draft is in the CMS, but it's still not 100% complete and publish-ready. Getting to these as fast as possible. A lot of user-invisible upgrades have been going on, but obvious and visible updates will be rolled out soon.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mejnour View Post
Now I know what you are talking about when you say domino breakout box/dongle.
The AGP ATI AIW cards come with a thick purple cable, with a purple rectangular box on the end. The box is where you plug in your RCA audio and composite/s-video video cables. This item has no official name that I can recall, but such devices on generally referred to as either breakout boxes or dongles. The PCI express version wire was not purple, but black. And the box on the end was not purple, but looked like a domino. These are proprietary wires, and must be used. They come with ATI cards when new, and should come with cards when used. If not, you'll see them sold separately on eBay. The purple and domino boxes are identical, aside from look, so either one works on PCI, AGP or PCI-e versions of the ATI AIW Radeon cards.

Quote:
Also I noticed that my card is equiped of this kind of outpout that I will have to use to connect the domino box/dongle to it. So I have to use 2 connectors to send signal to the card!? Guess that the way to do it!
The cards have varied through the years, in terms of exact connections present on the card itself. The oldest of cards had plugs for VGA, DVI, an output bundle (composite/s-video), and the breakout box. As graphics and video got more complex, more connections were added. Well, there's only so much space available on the back of a PCI/AGP slot. So a single wire bundled all the connections, and you plugged the in/out graphics and video into the I/O bundle. The PCI-e cards have quite a few connections, for DVI, VGA, video in and out, etc. Without these wire bundles, the cards are useless.

Quote:
Also I notice that I cannot link externally my video card to my sound card, so I WILL have to link in interally like in the previous link in the above message?
The external loopback audio cable is part of the output wire bundle. If you lack this connection, you'll have to do it internally. Note that some of the later cards lack internal audio connections, so external is the only possible method. So you may have to hunt down the proper wire, if internal connections are not possible.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mejnour View Post
About Behringer mixer. I would like to know if I should put it before or after TBC? Since for my S-VHS capturing project the audio is 98% human voice talking (conferences).
A TBC only has video input and audio. A TBC is not for audio. The DataVideo TBC-1000 is a TBC-100 married to a VP-299 distribution amplifer (fancy a/v splitter), which is why it has a single audio input and four audio outputs. If you have a TBC-1000, it doesn't really matter if you use the audio in/out. The audio does not pass through the TBC-100 chips, but only the VP-299 board.

Quote:
Do I have advantage to take Behringer XENYX802 over Behringer XENYX502. I guess 502 is just fine but maybe I am missing something.
You're missing something. The 502 only has Low and High EQ. The 802 has Low, Mid and High EQ. The Mid and High are most useful. Low is generally left alone, unless your camera was just really bassy.

Quote:
Here is a small comparaison article.
That is spam. Ezinearticles.com is a content mill. They don't have authoritative writers. The person who wrote that poor excuse of a review is a moron. The only reason he wrote that worthless page was to spam the links at the bottom, where he takes you to an equally worthless blog that exists only to whore affiliate links. The person uses lots of words, yet says nothing useful. It reminds me of a politician. Be careful what you read online. Some of it is helpful, and some of it is just crap.

Quote:
Thanks
Glad to help.

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  #10  
01-24-2012, 07:22 PM
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Quote:
I don't understand the question. You only want/need one capture card in a computer. In the case of these specifics cards, the ATI All In Wonder Radeon series cards, you also need an audio card for audio processing. The ATI card captures video, and passes audio into the soundcard. Sync is maintained without issue, on all but a few flaky/cheaply-made audio cards. A lot of people used to believe in nonsense referred to as "audio lock" on competing hardware (Canopus), but that was just marketing propaganda. Even "locked' audio can drift, when hardware is unstable or weak.
Now I know that I need a separate card sound card, I got false assumption that I video card can handle sound too because in was entering in the video card with the video signal

Quote:
I'm no sure I understand the issue here. You've mentioned an AGP board, and an ATI AIW 9600 Radeon AGP card. Both are AGP, and should work well together. There's no need for a PCI Express bus here.
Was reffering to my video car x600 pro PCIexpress vs sound card. I realized that it's hard to find a good P4 motherboard that have AGP and PCIexpress slut...PCIexpress seem rare on P4...I thoug that I did a good move by buying the "newer" of the older ATI video card...but right now I am really not sure


Quote:
It's like video -- you want to process as much as possible in hardware. And then use software to either perform tasks not possible in hardware -- like complex deinterlacing for video, or noise cancelling dehiss in audio. Or to further correct issues not completely resolved in hardware -- such as audio gain in software like Sound Forge, or color correction in Adobe Premiere Pro.
Does this kind of audio board is systematically included in your capture chain or you would says that you need it for example 10% of your time?

Quote:
Actually, there are risks with newer hardware. I've seen quad-core systems not work as desired with ATI All In Wonder cards. You're generally best off using hardware from the same generation. Most of the ATI AIW PCI-e cards are from 2006, and hardware from 2005-2007 tends to work best when building the computer. By "hardware" I refer mainly to motherboard and CPU -- not really RAM, power supplies, SATA drives, DVD burners, etc.
Thanks
Quote:
The external loopback audio cable is part of the output wire bundle. If you lack this connection, you'll have to do it internally. Note that some of the later cards lack internal audio connections, so external is the only possible method. So you may have to hunt down the proper wire, if internal connections are not possible.
Will look at it...


Quote:
A TBC only has video input and audio. A TBC is not for audio. The DataVideo TBC-1000 is a TBC-100 married to a VP-299 distribution amplifer (fancy a/v splitter), which is why it has a single audio input and four audio outputs. If you have a TBC-1000, it doesn't really matter if you use the audio in/out. The audio does not pass through the TBC-100 chips, but only the VP-299 board.
Okay, my question was more in the sense that since there is audio jack, does it means (that even if audio is not process), it have to pass in the device assuming that audio can be part of synchronisation task.

Quote:
You're missing something. The 502 only has Low and High EQ. The 802 has Low, Mid and High EQ. The Mid and High are most useful. Low is generally left alone, unless your camera was just really bassy.
Yeah I miss a lot of thing but glad to learn

Thanks the hint that I want to know about 802.

Still many questions, thanks for your patience
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  #11  
01-24-2012, 07:33 PM
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PCI express is almost non-existent for motherboards with single-core CPUs. You'll easily be using dual-core CPUs.

I keep an audio mixer board in the chain almost 100% of the time, similar to the external TBC. Only in rare cases when the quality is worsened will it be removed. Having the ability to adjust gain and EQ is almost always helpful. Note that it does help to have high quality speakers -- not cheapo one. The speakers used here are almost reference grade (by matter of specs), from the now-defunct Sonigistix. You don't want to "correct" audio to sound good on lousy speakers. It's not too dissimilar from "correcting" video on a cheap TN-based LCD panel, or some out-of-spec cheap uncalibrated HDTV.

There's no reason to fill unused holes (connectors). It reminds me of the disturbing, yet short, joke: "If it's wet, drink it." Sometimes a general rule is too general. Don't feel compelled to stick wires into holes if you're not knowingly using it.

No problems, glad to help.

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  #12  
01-25-2012, 02:50 PM
Mejnour Mejnour is offline
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Originally Posted by lordsmurf View Post
I keep an audio mixer board in the chain almost 100% of the time, similar to the external TBC. Only in rare cases when the quality is worsened will it be removed. Having the ability to adjust gain and EQ is almost always helpful. Note that it does help to have high quality speakers -- not cheapo one. The speakers used here are almost reference grade (by matter of specs), from the now-defunct Sonigistix. You don't want to "correct" audio to sound good on lousy speakers. It's not too dissimilar from "correcting" video on a cheap TN-based LCD panel, or some out-of-spec cheap uncalibrated HDTV.
No problems, glad to help.
Thanks for your wise though it make me work today

Now to everyone

About PC audio speaker right now I have Altec lansing
Okay if you tell me that I have lousy speakers I will not be mad but tell me what is acceptable for the price and quality. (don't forget that I am capturing talking speach)

On the video side I did my duty, trying to not make a heart attack to my treasurer.
This is my list so far. Don't forget that I am not doing this for living, it's a 100 casettes projects
  1. ViewSonic VP2365-LED 23-Inch Wide e-IPS LED Monitor 330$ 24"
  2. HP Zr2040w Led S-ips Monitor Us Eng 20" 174$
  3. ASUS VS Series VS229H-P Black 21.5" 14ms HDMI IPS-Panel LED Backlight 164$ 21.5"
  4. LG IPS231P-BN 200$ 23"
  5. Ips226v-Pn 150$ 22.6"
  6. LG IPS236V-PN 23 200$ 23"
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  #13  
02-01-2012, 02:37 AM
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Speakers:

Those Altec Lansing speakers are very low-end consumer speakers. They'll probably be "good enough" for people talking (interviews, lectures, etc), but they are rather lousy. The frequency response is easily pitiful, meaning your audio tone will be far removed from the original. If you have a few dollars to spend (~$125), then buy some of the Harmon Kardon Sound Sticks:

- Harman Kardon Soundsticks III - http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...SIN=B0042F3K9W
- Harman Kardon Soundsticks II - http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...SIN=B0001DBEM4
- Harman Kardon Soundsticks I - http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...SIN=B00005B9AQ

The III model is the current one. Others are older.

These are still not "reference grade" speakers ($250+ range speakers for audio production), but are closely enough for your needs. In fact, they're pretty nice speakers in general. I've heard a set of these rattle the second floor of a mall, but still retaining actual sound quality. Not just booms and tweets. I'd rank these a step below my own Sonigistix Monsoon speakers, which are somewhat rare.


IPS LCD Monitors:

Watch out about the low-cost IPS panels. Honestly, just get the ViewSonic. It's a beautiful 8-bit IPS panel.

A lot of the low-cost panels are TN upgrades more than actual IPS panels. By this I mean that they're 6-bit panels with dithering. While that's all good and fine for your average home user (movies, video games, etc), it's not good enough for deep inspection of video quality. The 6-bit panel is basically compression of the color palette, and you'll see posterization in images. For editing video or photo, that's just craptastic.

The LG models are confirmed 6-bit.

Asus is a rebadge. They don't make panels.

HP is nice, but most of the lower-cost models are 6-bit. The higher end models (costs more than ViewSonic) are true 8-bit.

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  #14  
02-08-2012, 08:09 AM
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Wow thanks lordsmurf for you knowledge!

Does the sound quality have to be judge thru good speaker only or high quality headphone can also be a option.

For example I have SHURE!
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02-08-2012, 08:16 AM
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Headphones are used by audio professionals in studio settings, but I cannot stand them. It's extremely hard to judge audio without having room acoustics. Sound injected directly into your ear lacks any acoustics. I want to know how sound fills a room, not just my ear drums. And unless your headphones cost $150+, then they're just consumer grade, with a somewhat lousy frequency response curve.

Note that actual frequency response differs from specs on paper.

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  #16  
02-08-2012, 10:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lordsmurf View Post
Speakers:

Those Altec Lansing speakers are very low-end consumer speakers. They'll probably be "good enough" for people talking (interviews, lectures, etc), but they are rather lousy. The frequency response is easily pitiful, meaning your audio tone will be far removed from the original. If you have a few dollars to spend (~$125), then buy some of the Harmon Kardon Sound Sticks:

- Harman Kardon Soundsticks III - http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...SIN=B0042F3K9W
- Harman Kardon Soundsticks II - http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...SIN=B0001DBEM4
- Harman Kardon Soundsticks I - http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...SIN=B00005B9AQ

The III model is the current one. Others are older.
About these speaker, I was wondering if Subwoofer is not overkill for my task, like you know I will record lecture (conferences)... what about avoiding spending extra $ for subwoofer?
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