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-   -   Advice for converting VHS-C tapes, Panasonic vs. JVC VCRs? (http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/video-restore/4659-advice-converting-vhs.html)

Tomas84 10-15-2012 09:48 AM

Advice for converting VHS-C tapes, Panasonic vs. JVC VCRs?
 
Hello,
I am new here and have a question regarding vhs set. I own Panasonic NV-HS930 and want to convert some VHS-C tapes. Should I use that set or buy JVC HR-S7722EU/7711EU ? Is it worth the price... 220EUR is the offer I have found.

Thank you for an answer.
Tom

volksjager 10-15-2012 12:57 PM

do not put VHS-C tapes in a JVC vcr - they will be eaten

use only a Panasonic deck with the powered JVC VHS-C adapter

or do like i do and dismantle the compact tapes and transfer the tape inside into a full size VHS shells

Tomas84 10-15-2012 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by volksjager (Post 23450)
do not put VHS-C tapes in a JVC vcr - they will be eaten

use only a Panasonic deck with the powered JVC VHS-C adapter

or do like i do and dismantle the compact tapes and transfer the tape inside into a full size VHS shells

Great, I am using that adapter.It was bought with old VHS-C JVC camera back in 1989 :). For me it is good to know that I do not need to buy JVC VCR because it is very expensive.

Anyway... is there big difference between image processing quality when playing very old (most of them about 16 year old) low quality tapes between JVC and NV-HS930?

juhok 10-15-2012 03:43 PM

"Is there a big difference" - There are many variables to that question. Neither of those decks you mentioned are very common around here and the condition of the video heads and mechanics also plays a role. My experience with Pana/JVC (high end models) is that JVC will give you less if the source is good even if you don't do post processing like high quality denoising after capture ("normal" people prefer JVC because it does some heavy filtering on-the-fly). Camera original VHS-C tapes often in my experience don't really benefit from the JVC treatment. So, not really worth it for you to jump the JVC bandwagon IMHO. 16 years is not too much, I wouldn't worry about it.

Btw 220 for JVC HR-S7722 is quite high. That's the same or more than I've ever paid for EU 9xxx series.

Tomas84 10-17-2012 04:23 AM

Ok, thank you for a help :). I have one more question. For capturing to digital format I am using DVD recorder Pioneer DVR-433H conneted with the VCR by S-video cable. Should I rather use some type of PCI/USB capture device? I have always thought that dedicated device like dvd rec should have better analog circuitry and less noise than pc cards but maybe I am wong.

volksjager 10-17-2012 06:28 AM

im not familiar with that Pioneer.
but you should be using a DVD recorder with an LSI chipset
preferably the JVC DR-M10 or DR-M100 (or the combo models DR-MV1 or DR-MV5)

juhok 10-17-2012 07:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tomas84 (Post 23472)
For capturing to digital format I am using DVD recorder Pioneer DVR-433H conneted with the VCR by S-video cable. Should I rather use some type of PCI/USB capture device? I have always thought that dedicated device like dvd rec should have better analog circuitry and less noise than pc cards but maybe I am wong.

What you should use is up to you :) but even the best DVD recorder is a compromise by design (lossy on-the-fly MPEG2 encoding). Noise is not a problem with any of the recommended capture devices that I know of.

volksjager 10-17-2012 07:44 AM

the JVC DVD recorders i mentioned remove chroma-noise and grain from VHS sources.
something a capture card does not do.(you'll need to do that with software)
(use either the XP or FR155-185 modes for best results)

kpmedia 10-17-2012 08:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by volksjager (Post 23450)
do not put VHS-C tapes in a JVC vcr - they will be eaten
use only a Panasonic deck with the powered JVC VHS-C adapter
or do like i do and dismantle the compact tapes and transfer the tape inside into a full size VHS shells

This is the perfect advice for this thread. :thumb:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tomas84 (Post 23472)
using DVD recorder Pioneer DVR-433H connected with the VCR by S-video cable. Should I rather use some type of PCI/USB capture device? I have always thought that dedicated device like dvd rec should have better analog circuitry and less noise than pc cards but maybe I am wong.

DVD recorders should have had better analog noise reductions, but alas that was rarely the case. The Pioneer 433 DVD recorder is one that lacked any real NR features, though it was faithful to TV recordings (non-VHS, non-tape sources) for color and details, unlike the Panasonic recorders of the era. This is a Pioneer from the pre-JVC era, back around 2003-2004 or so. It's not bad, but it's far from ideal for high quality VHS-C conversions. Though in fairness, I'd say that SP mode VHS-C out of a camera tended to have less chroma noise than a consumer VCR on a VHS tapes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by juhok (Post 23452)
Btw 220 for JVC HR-S7722 is quite high. That's the same or more than I've ever paid for EU 9xxx series.

There's been a lot of price fluctuations in the past decade, due to demand, availability, recession, exchange rates, etc. 220 is a fair price for a high-quality S-VHS VCR. I still remember when a good JVC S-VHS deck was routinely $350-450 sold new, and that wasn't even a decade ago (maybe 7-8 years ago now). I think you may have gotten lucky numerous times, and found deals or shopped during lower price point eras.

Unfortunately, the fall and winter often brings higher prices on hardware, so I wouldn't necessary be bargain hunting during the Christmas shopping season. (Not because of Christmas, but because of family nostalgia that always encourages folks to start up projects on preserving family memories stored on film, tape and audio recordings.)

Quote:

Originally Posted by volksjager (Post 23474)
but you should be using a DVD recorder with an LSI chipset
preferably the JVC DR-M10 or DR-M100 (or the combo models DR-MV1 or DR-MV5)

More sound advice. :thumb:

A Panasonic S-VHS deck, external TBC, and JVC DVD recorder would be my suggestion. And remember that you can always resell the quality hardware when you finish your project. So the investment of everything can be mostly or entirely recouped later. You can sell the hardware here in our marketplace forum, to avoid eBay fees.

Stick to the VCRs mentioned on our guide: http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/vide...ing-guide.html
... though I see several models missing. We need to update that page again.

Take care. :2cents:

juhok 10-17-2012 09:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kpmedia (Post 23487)
There's been a lot of price fluctuations in the past decade, due to demand, availability, recession, exchange rates, etc. 220 is a fair price for a high-quality S-VHS VCR. I still remember when a good JVC S-VHS deck was routinely $350-450 sold new, and that wasn't even a decade ago (maybe 7-8 years ago now). I think you may have gotten lucky numerous times, and found deals or shopped during lower price point eras.

I could rephrase my earlier statement; if you're going to spend 220 on JVC, you might as well get the top model and ditch the 7000 series. ;)

X-mas effect might be in play, but till now this year has been generous with both price and selection at the Central European eBay markets (UK selection usually sucks and prices are higher).

Tomas84 10-20-2012 05:40 PM

Again thank you very much for advices. I won 2 ebay auctions with JVC DR10M. One is broken... Does "loading" error. Iwill see what I can do with that. The other one should be functional, but delivery will take more time because
"germany shippment only" seller and I must wait for germany friend to deliver me the unit. I hope that at least I can create 1 functional dvd recorder and start to converting my family vhs-c.

Btw: is it really necessarry to have an external TBC between vcr Panasonic NV-HS930 and dvd rec? On my vcr there is 3DNR function and TBC function. Should I enable both or only TBC and let the jvc dvd recorder do the noise removal job?

volksjager 10-20-2012 06:01 PM

did you by chance win that loading error one from England this morning?
if so you and i were bidding against each other. :)

it is most likely bad caps/resistors on the power board.

admin 10-20-2012 10:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by volksjager (Post 23510)
you and i were bidding against each other. :)

It wouldn't be the first time this has happened, between members of this site. :p

Tomas84 10-22-2012 02:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by volksjager (Post 23510)
did you by chance win that loading error one from England this morning?
if so you and i were bidding against each other. :)

it is most likely bad caps/resistors on the power board.

Probably yes if it was this one http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2211396052...84.m1497.l2649

Sorry for that :).

Anyway, I have downloaded service manual with schematic diagrams, so I hope I can figure out the bad components. I hope it will be in power supply, bcause it is easier to find. Maybe leaked caps or the known "resistor problem" that I have found at forums.

lordsmurf 10-22-2012 03:02 AM

It's usually not a power supply issue.

The most common problem are bulged/leaking capacitors. Though in more recent years, sometimes it's dried-out capacitors. The JVC units are all approaching 7-8 years old now, and the low-grade inferior caps dry out more and more as they approach 10 years old. That's been the biggest issue with the Panasonic S-VHS AG1980 VCRs.

Tomas84 10-22-2012 07:56 AM

I hope so..fixing caps shouldn't be hard work :).

Is it necessarry to have an external TBC between vcr Panasonic NV-HS930 and JVC DVD recorder? On my Panasonic HR-HS930 vcr there is 3DNR function and TBC function. Should I enable both or only TBC and let the jvc dvd recorder do the noise removal job?

volksjager 10-22-2012 11:15 AM

look on the power PCB board,
you will probably see a darkened area on the board from overheating -
the caps and resistors in that area should be replaced.
not a bad idea to open some vent holes or ad an extra fan in that area.

lordsmurf 10-23-2012 09:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by volksjager (Post 23548)
look on the power PCB board, you will probably see a darkened area on the board from overheating - the caps and resistors in that area should be replaced. not a bad idea to open some vent holes or ad an extra fan in that area.

It's almost impossible to do a visual inspection on AG-1980 caps. You have to pull out a meter, and measure the values.
Caps with out of spec values are more common than the dried-up ones, which are far more common than those that have leaked, bulged, or burned out.

The techs at Jots, and our own forum member "deter", have both mentioned this. :salute:

volksjager 10-23-2012 01:29 PM

i was referring to the JVC DVD recorder - not the AG-1980

i agree an 1980 is best left to pros.
but the DVD recorder are alot less complicated

Tomas84 10-25-2012 07:04 AM

Damn :ohmy:...the seller just canceled the delivery, so I am without a recorder. I hate those people who change mind after the end of auction.


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