Hardware detailer and proc amp vs. software correction?
Hello everyone,
After reading reams of posts, many of them more than once, I have come to the conclusion that I've found yet another rabbit hole in which to get lost. Said hole has quite the cover charge, and lots of gotchas. Well done to the site founders, moderators and contributors! What an immense repository of knowledge you have all amassed here. Thank you! Onto the history: I've already purchased a Panasonic AG-1970P on eBay (the 1980s all looked beat up). Other than some squeaking/squealing while ejecting/inserting tapes, it seems to be a clean and solid unit. The picture slider has an effect, and the TBC switch seems to do something. Most shifts colors. I have yet to try it on a really bad tape. I recently re-acquired a DVD recorder that I gave my dad for his birthday several years ago. It happens to be a Panasonic ES15. He was to use it for digitizing all these camcorder tapes. Never happened, so I'm taking it upon myself. I know not to use it as a DVD recorder, based on all the bad reviews of its capabilities in this respect. I've also as yet been unable to capture without going through the ES15 due to the Blackmagic's sensitivity to timing errors. En route is a Leitch DPS-235, another eBay purchase. I realize it's a monster of a rack-based TBC and mileage varies, but I thought it was worth a chance at less than $50 shipped. Looked pretty clean, seller has great reviews. Hopefully I won't wish I had put that toward a TBC-1000 or AVT-8710. Time will tell. Not passing through the ES15 might yield better results. I also realize I won't necessarily know how to quantify the differences this hardware makes (aside from the obvious jitter), as this is my first attempt at VHS restoration and my first experience with most of this kind of hardware. I just want to ensure that I'm making the best reasonably affordable effort to capture these tapes at good-to-great quality. All told I have under $200 into it at this point. Questions: 1). Should I be concerned about the AG-1970's squeak/squeal? Based on what I've read, it's likely a belt. Leave it alone? Also, I plan on cleaning the heads with a non-cotton swab and 90% alcohol. 2). Any guesses on me having any luck with the DPS-235? I know, dumb question. I ask because it has a proc, which leads me to... 3). Should I rely on a hardware detailer and/or proc or do it in post? The DPS-235 has some color controls, not sure about detail enhancement. I have a line on a BVP-4+. Is the resolution bump a gimmick or worth it? Color correction in post won't hit the processing that hard, but I think sharpening will add some rendering time. I have an unsharp mask in FCPX, how might that compare to what a BVP-4 and other detailers do? My rig is an early 2011 MacBook Pro, Blackmagic Design Intensity Shuttle Thunderbolt, Blackmagic Media Media Express for capture, and I plan to capture in ProRes LT and edit in Final Cut Pro X (FCPX). The expanded plan: Capture all of dad's camcorder tapes, output to DVD, output to YouTube as separate clips and tag by date/event/person/etc. I don't want to have to do this again, like I had to re-rip all my CDs because I was told 128 kbps was adequate. If the hardware is good and I develop a decent workflow, I may try to charge for the service to local interested parties. Assuming, of course, I get good results. Whoa. I wrote more than I planned! Wanted to include as many details as possible, though, to eliminate as much of the back-and-forth-hashing-out-specifics as I can. Again, thanks for the knowledge that got me to this point. I appreciate any comments and advice you may have for me. |
I have a DPS-235 here... well actually I have 3 of them. I haven't tested their ability to correct VHS jitter, but they should keep a capture card happy as they were used in professional applications to prep signals for broadcast use. The proc. amp is basic. The range of adjustment is limited, but not as much as the dinky one thats found in the popular AVT-8710. I would lean towards a dedicated box if you need a wide range of adjustment. Also the other problem I found with the DPS-235 is that it tends to not be "transparent" (neither is the ES-15, but I have no experience with it).
Depending on the unit, the TBC can alter video levels and hue. The newer the model (usually labelled "Leitch" and not "DPS"), the better performance. Unfortunately adjusting the unit to be transparent requires either a good eye, or the proper waveform monitor/vectorscope along with a test signal generator. For that purpose, the built in proc amp is pretty good. |
Hey NJRoadfan, I remember reading your posts in my research. Sounds like the DPS-235 will do what I need, which is to get a useable signal into my capture device. I gather it's not going to be dead simple as far as transparency goes. So now I'm reading up again and finding that the best unit as far as transparency goes is the AVT-8710. Getting down to the wire if I want to deliver anything by Christmas. Maybe I'll just bite the bullet, cut my losses and grab an 8710 from B&H. I want to do this right, the first time. But of course on the cheap. ;)
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Read through this: Video Hobby vs. Video Profession Quote:
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I can't tell you how many eBay tabs I had open, pasting in models from the VCR buying guide, trying to find a deck that didn't look beat up, before settling on the 1970. I may be repeating this process soon. :depressed: Quote:
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I'm going to hold off on further purchases until I can evaluate the hardware I have. The big question for me is still the S-VHS deck. Never thought I'd be dropping fat cash on VCRs here at the end of 2012. :) |
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http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/atta...1&d=1353452743 Eventually I'll get around to testing the DPS-235 units. Sandy sidetracked things around here for a bit, plus I had no power for 10 days. I ripped apart the basement and the bedroom to move stuff to safe areas just in case of wind damage or flood problems. I just moved all that equipment back upstairs last week and now I have people who want VHS transfers for the holidays. I still need to pick up another hard drive... ugh. |
Dang, 10 days with no juice? I can't even imagine it. Thanks for posting a pic of your setup, I'll do the same once I have my stack. Which, by the way, grew today. It has become painfully obvious that trying to do this "on the cheap" is just not going to be possible.
So today I bought a JVC SR-V10U, perfect condition with very little use, $325 shipped. Also scored a BVP-4 Plus for $128 shipped, also in near-new condition. I'm going to do this right. If the DPS-235 doesn't cut it, I'll grab an AVT-8710 as well. I'm in too deep, there's no turning back now! Bill me later is dangerous. My stack, once everything arrives, will consist of a Panasonic AG-1970, JVC SR-V10U, Panasonic DMR-ES15, Leitch DPS-235, and a BVP-4 Plus. Assuming the DPS-235 does the trick, I should be good to go. |
^^ That's a pretty good haul there! Especially on the BVP-4.
I should also post my setup as well, it is a comparable chain of equipment. I'm trying to get a friend to build me a custom video stand so I can move my stuff of the desk I have it on now and into something more appropriate given the size/weight of each component as well as the space requirements for airflow. Just FYI if your SR-V10U doesn't work out, as soon as LS approves it, I'll have a pristine 7800U for sale on the marketplace for less than you paid shipped for the SR-V10U. |
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So the DPS-235 arrived today (yay!) and it does seem to be working. I now have a stable signal that my Blackmagic Intensity will accept. Great! I am now mostly concerned about the AG-1970. Please take a look at a couple of grabs to see what the TBC is doing to the video. Note: the behavior is the same with and without the DPS-235 in the chain.
With the AG-1970 TBC Off: http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/atta...1&d=1353557232 With AG-1970 TBC On: http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/atta...1&d=1353557232 Lordsmurf suggested such a color shift would indicate bad caps. Do you think this is what is going on here? The eBay seller does accept returns. I'm having another issue with the deck. When ejecting a tape, if you don't grab it right away, it re-ingests the tape and the unit becomes unresponsive. The only button that does anything is the power button. Then you have to unplug/replug to get everything working again. I'm thinking about just sending it back rather than dumping $200-300 on getting it repaired, especially with a "perfect condition" JVC on the way and most of my tapes being SP. I'd appreciate any thoughts on the matter. Too bad I didn't come here first. I'd be much farther ahead at this point just buying robjv1's JVC. Oh well, let this be a lesson to those who come after, right? |
Yeah, that is quite a color shift, I don't think it bodes well for the deck, although I don't have personal experience with that model. Some of the the JVC decks have slight hue/saturation/contrast shifts when the TBC is engaged, but not like that if they are in good working condition. Otherwise though, not a bad looking image at all save for some over sharpening/ringing effects. It definitely sounds like a bit of a wonky deck though, although it might be worth keeping as a backup down the line, you can always have it repaired should you need it. How long do you have to return it? You should check out the other deck first if you can swing it and make sure you are pleased with the picture.
I guess I just like the idea personally of flexibility -- it's never a bad idea to have a stash of JVC and Panasonic SVHS decks, along with a solid plain VHS model for tapes that will just not play right in your main deck. Without the HR-7800U, I have five decks setup and ready to go -- two JVC SR-W5Us as my main decks and another JVC SVHS deck and couple of Panasonics for other situations. I doubt you need that kind of flexibility if you have mostly SP tapes, but it's not a bad idea to keep a Panasonic around as an alternate for your new JVC VCR. And welcome to the forum btw! |
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So the BVP-4 arrived, and it does function properly as far as I can tell. All the dials make noticeable changes to the image. The split screen verifies this. By the way, adjusting the right-side-bar problem was a cinch thanks to this forum. That alone justifies the $20 I invested in a Premium membership.
Back to the BVP-4. It arrived damaged. It only traveled 70 miles, yet the switch for the Black Restore got busted off. It wasn't packaged well. Loose bubble wrap. http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/atta...1&d=1353904909 Any idea how much it would cost to replace? Should I ask for some money back? I'll never see a BVP-4 Plus in this condition for $128 again. I live in a small town in northern Wisconsin so finding electronic repair services isn't easy, so I'd be sending it off. Is this what VHS restoration is like in general, or am I having bad luck? |
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What were your thoughts about the AG-1970? I picked it up after reading that the 1980's DNR was perhaps too strong and there was no way to turn it off. But after continued reading it seems that the 1980 is THE unit to have in the Panny line. |
I contacted the seller of the AG-1970. He actually has a couple more of those decks on hand and was able to confirm that they both produce a color shift with the TBC enabled. He never noticed it because he always left TBC on. Perhaps this effect was fixed on the 1980? He also said that he always followed the maintenance suggestions for all his decks (used for VHS duplication) and that he cleaned and lubricated mine before sending it out. I feel much better about this now. If nothing else it's a solid backup. That said, I feel even better about my JVC, which should arrive today.
As for the BVP-4, the seller refunded $10 for the damage, so I ended up with a darn near perfect condition BVP-4 for $118. I was able to dink around with it for a few minutes and was impressed with its capabilities. With all this hardware I should be set for most anything. I'm really looking forward to finally getting started on this project. Thanks all for your help and advice. I'll post a photo of my stack once I have it, um, stacked. ;) |
Received my JVC SR-V10U today. Yay! Opened the box ... came from a smoker. :mad: :pullhair:
Lordsmurf, anyone else ... should I keep it? It is otherwise very clean. |
how bad is it?
smoke tar can really f-up the mechanicals i saved a HR-S9800U that was HORRIBLE with smoke damage. but it required considerable effort to disassemble and clean everything i may be able to help you on that particular unit. i have 2 SR-V10U's with no main boards, but the cases and transports are good and smoke free. |
I don't know how much you can tell by looking inside, but everything looks really clean. It just stinks. I can't stand that smell. Not sure I feel like disassembling a VCR, I just want a clean one that works and doesn't reek like a bar. Not too much to ask for $300. I'm getting extremely frustrated at this point.
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take off the top cover and examine the mech for tar.
if it isnt too bad and doesn't have tar on the mech: wipe down all the outside surfaces with rubbing alcohol. then put the unit in a large cardboard box with some baking soda and close the box for a few days. if it has tar on the mech it will need to be cleaned or replaced. $300 is a little stiff for an SR-V10U especially a smoky one. i have a non-smoky one on ebay for $225 |
It's super clean inside, I can't see tar on anything. Looks like it's never been used. Thanks for the advice on removing the smell, I will definitely try it. Saw your listing ... Shoulda coulda woulda.
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Final chapter in this saga: Contacted the seller and he swears he does not smoke and that it's possibly the packing material. Sure enough, there was some pink foam that reeked like cigarette smoke. It's amazing how pervasive that odor is.
Lessons learned for those who may be starting out and reading this thread: 1. Join this forum and ask for help finding a deck and other hardware. Either someone with great knowledge will sell you a deck in known working condition, or they will help you find it on eBay. Don't go it alone. 2. Be prepared to shell out some cash. $1,000 should get you where you want to be, maybe less if you have existing hardware like a capture card and computer. 3. When you see a VHS transfer service asking for $20-40 per tape, it's actually a pretty good deal. This process is not for the faint of heart, if you're concerned about quality anyway. Consider having an expert do it for you instead of incurring the headaches of DIY. 4. Don't try to gather equipment one month before you want your project to be delivered. It's going to take you at least that long to track down the hardware and read the threads to learn how best to use it. Give yourself lots of time, or you'll be an overspending spazz like myself. :o 5. Pay for the Premium membership upgrade. These topics are very niche and the site admins (not to mention other members) have extensive knowledge and experience. You'll need to rely on their help far beyond the hardware acquisition phase (I know I will). Go ahead, pay for their lunch today, they deserve it. :) |
if you take you time and you can find sweet deals on equipment.
i just got a SR-W7U for $82 shipped to my door - it took me a year to find one that cheap. also be very weary of the $7.95 per tape services - many of these are complete hacks using junk equipment they got on clearance at Wal-mart or Best buy. |
Bracket26,
I am glad you have been able to find the information and help you need here on the forums. It's users like you, volksjager, njroadfan, and the like that make this place come together. -JMP
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