Quantcast In need of an external Line Time Base Corrector - digitalFAQ Forum
Go Back    Forum > Digital Video > Video Project Help > Restore, Filter, Improve Quality

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #1  
08-20-2014, 11:01 PM
history1 history1 is offline
Premium Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: San Antonio, TX
Posts: 80
Thanked 7 Times in 4 Posts
Hello everyone! I am in need of an external Time Base Corrector. Not a Full Frame TBC, but a line version, similar to the ones found in S-VHS VCRs. I do have an S-VHS VCR, the JVC HR-9911U, but I am not very satisfied with it. To many people these kinds of VCRs may be the best for digitizing, but for me, the video is too sharp, the audio quality for home videos is not comparable to the quality of my DVD/VCR combo, and it has some issues when connected to my AVT-8710 Time Base Corrector. I would rather use my hi-quality combo for my digitizing.

Anyways in addition to using my DVD/VCR combo I am in need of an external Line TBC. Does anyone know of one I can buy? I don't want too many choices, I have been through alot in trying to get a decent setup, I want to get my hands on a good one. Thank you in advance!
Reply With Quote
Someday, 12:01 PM
admin's Avatar
Ads / Sponsors
 
Join Date: ∞
Posts: 42
Thanks: ∞
Thanked 42 Times in 42 Posts
  #2  
08-20-2014, 11:40 PM
premiumcapture premiumcapture is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 585
Thanked 69 Times in 63 Posts
Can you post screenshots of your current issue?
Reply With Quote
  #3  
08-21-2014, 12:18 AM
history1 history1 is offline
Premium Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: San Antonio, TX
Posts: 80
Thanked 7 Times in 4 Posts
I'm not concerned about my S-VHS vcr's issues, I am concerned about getting an external line TBC for my VCR/DVD combo. I'm not satisfied with my S-VHS vcr so I want to go with my combo unit.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
08-21-2014, 12:23 AM
premiumcapture premiumcapture is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 585
Thanked 69 Times in 63 Posts
You shouldn't use a line TBC unless its necessary, and to be looking for one you must have a current issue. It's hard to make a recommendation without a screenshot of your problem.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
08-21-2014, 01:21 AM
lordsmurf's Avatar
lordsmurf lordsmurf is online now
Site Staff | Video
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 9,785
Thanked 1,667 Times in 1,448 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by premiumcapture View Post
You shouldn't use a line TBC unless its necessary,
I don't know where you're getting that from -- a line TBC is almost always necessary. There are few instances where youdo NOT want one, but that's a far more rare situation.

However, line TBCs are mostly found in high-end SVHS VCRs.

There's really no such animal as an external line TBC. Those just do not exist for the most part. External TBCs are usually "frame-sync TBCs" (not just frame sync) or "infinite window" full-field TBCs.

See also:
- VCR Buying Guide (S-VHS, D-VHS, Professional) for restoring video
- What is a TBC? Time Base Correction for Videotapes

- Did my advice help you? Then become a Premium Member and support this site.
- Find television shows, cartoons, DVDs and Blu-ray releases at the TVPast forums.
Reply With Quote
The following users thank lordsmurf for this useful post: history1 (08-21-2014)
  #6  
08-21-2014, 01:29 AM
premiumcapture premiumcapture is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 585
Thanked 69 Times in 63 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by lordsmurf View Post
I don't know where you're getting that from -- a line TBC is almost always necessary. There are few instances where youdo NOT want one, but that's a far more rare situation.

However, line TBCs are mostly found in high-end SVHS VCRs.

There's really no such animal as an external line TBC. Those just do not exist for the most part. External TBCs are usually "frame-sync TBCs" (not just frame sync) or "infinite window" full-field TBCs.

See also:
- VCR Buying Guide (S-VHS, D-VHS, Professional) for restoring video
- What is a TBC? Time Base Correction for Videotapes
From the information presented, I got the impression that the OP wanted to use something similar to an ES15 for all their tapes. I was simply trying to gather more info about the issue as they mentioned they are using a JVC S-VHS VCR. I don't own that model so I don't know how its LTBC function works (or present), so I wanted a screenshot to examine the issue further.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
08-21-2014, 01:39 AM
lordsmurf's Avatar
lordsmurf lordsmurf is online now
Site Staff | Video
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 9,785
Thanked 1,667 Times in 1,448 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by premiumcapture View Post
so I wanted a screenshot to examine the issue further.
Yes, more information (screen shot!) is definitely needed here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by history1 View Post
but for me, the video is too sharp, the audio quality for home videos is not comparable to the quality of my DVD/VCR combo, and it has some issues when connected to my AVT-8710 Time Base Corrector.
Define "some issues".

Because none of that sounds right. What's really strange is some people consider the JVC "too soft" due to its suppression of noise that gives false "detail". And while the audio can have issues on certain tapes, it's more complex that the unit simply being inferior.

It almost sounds as if the JVC menu settings have not been tweaked properly.

- Did my advice help you? Then become a Premium Member and support this site.
- Find television shows, cartoons, DVDs and Blu-ray releases at the TVPast forums.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
08-21-2014, 07:37 AM
sanlyn sanlyn is offline
Premium Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: N. Carolina and NY, USA
Posts: 3,648
Thanked 1,189 Times in 958 Posts
I had problems with the JVC 9911 myself. Returned two of them in the same week, both brand-new. Each had common problems (notably a weird AGC effect that blew out highlights), then there were defects unique to each -- one of them kept blinking on and off after a few minutes of play. I've seen comments elsewhere that the 9911 was a kind of last-gasp prosumer effort, nothing like the quality of the 7600 or the 9800 series that I owned and used until they expired. After running through a few used JVC's from eBay that were pretty well burned out when they arrived, I simply gave up on JVC's. Others have had better luck with used 9800 machines, but I guess I was in the wrong place at the wrong time in that regard.

I have two DVD recorders I've used successfully as pass-thru line tbc's that had decent output and solved many tape playbaclk problems. These were Panasonic ES15 and Toshiba RD-XS34. No one asserts that pass-thru units are as powerful as those in good prosumer VCR's. The overall cleanup is noticeable if not quite as hefty as a prosumer unit, but it's hard to see a difference without directly comparing the results. They do a pretty good job and they don't tie you down to a single tape player, some of which might track a tape better than another one. So far, both pass-thru units have also undone Macrovision and its effects when used as pass-thru. I also have a rebuilt AG-1980 whose annual maintenance is a big headache and money drain, but when it works, it works. It's not at all unusual to discover that some tapes look better on one of my non-tbc units. But that's VHS for you.

Panasonic made some decent and fairly sturdy non-tbc higher end VCR's in 1996-1998 with Dynamorphous heads. They show up occasionally on auction sites. I have three of them purchased (not all that cheap) from sellers who specialize in refurbishing the higher-end Pannies like the PV-466x series, PV-S4670/S4672 sVHS machines, and a PV-8664. Overall image quality other than tbc performance is similar to the later "AG" series. Sometimes they can track a tape so well I don't even use a line tbc but hook it up anyway just to make me feel better. One or two of the last high end Mitsubishi's have also been recommended. Anything made 1999 or later is junk, especially the Panasonic PV-"Vxxxx" series (with that extra "V" in the model number that is your major clue) is utter junk, with build quality so lightweight that their overall physical heft feels lighter than a small box of paper clips. I have to add that no DVD.VCR combo unit can compete with a good VCR in any way, including audio output. Audio from the 9911 was as below-par as any other factor in that unit, so I can see how a combo might seem to sound better. But no combo unit can compete with a good VCR. VHS audio isn't all that great to begin with.

In my experience the non-tbc Pannies I mentioned have a rather mild noise reduction built-in, although the 8664 does seem to have a bit less (but you can tell it's there if you compare it to later VCR's that uniformly had overdone contrast pumping and gross over-sharpening). The dnr is not as aggressive as those in big JVC's or the AG-1980, but sometime that stronger dnr can have undesirable effects on certain tapes. So every VHS capture begins with a test of which of my VCR's does the best job with a particular tape. VHS being what it is, you never can tell if you're stuck with a single player.

None of this means that I'm dead set against JVC, but I'd say the 9911 was not up to par with earlier units. I just haven't been able to find one of those better models in a condition that would compete with the other VCR's I use.

Last edited by sanlyn; 08-21-2014 at 07:53 AM.
Reply With Quote
The following users thank sanlyn for this useful post: history1 (08-21-2014)
  #9  
08-21-2014, 09:43 AM
volksjager volksjager is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,023
Thanked 208 Times in 189 Posts
not everything made after 99 is junk
many of the good jvc's where built 2000-2002ish
ag-1980s where made until 01
the mitsu HS-HD2000u is a great deck made after 99
ive had good 9911's too - perhap you just had bad luck
Reply With Quote
The following users thank volksjager for this useful post: history1 (08-21-2014)
  #10  
08-21-2014, 10:15 AM
sanlyn sanlyn is offline
Premium Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: N. Carolina and NY, USA
Posts: 3,648
Thanked 1,189 Times in 958 Posts
Nope. The 9911 was a mistake. I'm not the only one with complaints. The guys at B&H photo stopped carrying it. Too many returns.
Reply With Quote
The following users thank sanlyn for this useful post: history1 (08-21-2014)
  #11  
08-21-2014, 12:57 PM
history1 history1 is offline
Premium Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: San Antonio, TX
Posts: 80
Thanked 7 Times in 4 Posts
Quote:
From the information presented, I got the impression that the OP wanted to use something similar to an ES15 for all their tapes.
Yes an ES15 of the like is something that I am looking for. I am looking for an external line TBC like what is found in S-VHS vcrs, but according to lordsmurf's links it looks like there is no such thing.

Quote:
Define "some issues".
The issues I am talking about concerns this unit being connected to my external TBC. In parts where there is defective video the video fields seperate at times. You can see an example of that in the attached snapshot "JVC & extern TBC error". This unit is kind of sensitive to defective video compared to my combo unit, with the external TBC. I absolutely need my external most of the time, since most of my videos need correcting that it can fix.

Quote:
Because none of that sounds right. What's really strange is some people consider the JVC "too soft" due to its suppression of noise that gives false "detail". And while the audio can have issues on certain tapes, it's more complex that the unit simply being inferior.
I have all noise reduction turned off because it just makes the video too blurry. I like all the detail of the picture, so as a result the video is too sharp. I can't make it as soft as in a regular VCR, this unit just can't do that. As far as the audio quality it is definitely is not as sharp and crisp as in my combo unit. In the specifications it says Signal-to-noise ratio is 45. That doesn't sound too good, and it's the same in all of JVC's S-VHS units.

Quote:
It almost sounds as if the JVC menu settings have not been tweaked properly.
I have done my best in the settings. I read that I can adjust audio quality in the settings. I tried that, no difference. I have tested out different tapes in both my units. I have noticed store-bought movies sounding better in the S-VHS unit, and home movies sounding better in the combo unit.

Quote:
It's hard to make a recommendation without a screenshot of your problem.
It's hard for me to post picture screenshots of my issues, only videos. In the attachment "combo with external TBC", it shows video playback of one of my videos being played back on my combo unit without line TBC. "JVC with external TBC" shows the same video being played back on my JVC S-VHS VCR with line TBC. You can notice the date and time in that one not shaking like in the first. That's what I want in the combo unit.

Quote:
I had problems with the JVC 9911 myself. Returned two of them in the same week, both brand-new. Each had common problems (notably a weird AGC effect that blew out highlights), then there were defects unique to each -- one of them kept blinking on and off after a few minutes of play. I've seen comments elsewhere that the 9911 was a kind of last-gasp prosumer effort, nothing like the quality of the 7600 or the 9800 series that I owned and used until they expired. After running through a few used JVC's from eBay that were pretty well burned out when they arrived, I simply gave up on JVC's. Others have had better luck with used 9800 machines, but I guess I was in the wrong place at the wrong time in that regard.

I have two DVD recorders I've used successfully as pass-thru line tbc's that had decent output and solved many tape playbaclk problems. These were Panasonic ES15 and Toshiba RD-XS34. No one asserts that pass-thru units are as powerful as those in good prosumer VCR's. The overall cleanup is noticeable if not quite as hefty as a prosumer unit, but it's hard to see a difference without directly comparing the results. They do a pretty good job and they don't tie you down to a single tape player, some of which might track a tape better than another one. So far, both pass-thru units have also undone Macrovision and its effects when used as pass-thru. I also have a rebuilt AG-1980 whose annual maintenance is a big headache and money drain, but when it works, it works. It's not at all unusual to discover that some tapes look better on one of my non-tbc units. But that's VHS for you.

Panasonic made some decent and fairly sturdy non-tbc higher end VCR's in 1996-1998 with Dynamorphous heads. They show up occasionally on auction sites. I have three of them purchased (not all that cheap) from sellers who specialize in refurbishing the higher-end Pannies like the PV-466x series, PV-S4670/S4672 sVHS machines, and a PV-8664. Overall image quality other than tbc performance is similar to the later "AG" series. Sometimes they can track a tape so well I don't even use a line tbc but hook it up anyway just to make me feel better. One or two of the last high end Mitsubishi's have also been recommended. Anything made 1999 or later is junk, especially the Panasonic PV-"Vxxxx" series (with that extra "V" in the model number that is your major clue) is utter junk, with build quality so lightweight that their overall physical heft feels lighter than a small box of paper clips. I have to add that no DVD.VCR combo unit can compete with a good VCR in any way, including audio output. Audio from the 9911 was as below-par as any other factor in that unit, so I can see how a combo might seem to sound better. But no combo unit can compete with a good VCR. VHS audio isn't all that great to begin with.

In my experience the non-tbc Pannies I mentioned have a rather mild noise reduction built-in, although the 8664 does seem to have a bit less (but you can tell it's there if you compare it to later VCR's that uniformly had overdone contrast pumping and gross over-sharpening). The dnr is not as aggressive as those in big JVC's or the AG-1980, but sometime that stronger dnr can have undesirable effects on certain tapes. So every VHS capture begins with a test of which of my VCR's does the best job with a particular tape. VHS being what it is, you never can tell if you're stuck with a single player.

None of this means that I'm dead set against JVC, but I'd say the 9911 was not up to par with earlier units. I just haven't been able to find one of those better models in a condition that would compete with the other VCR's I use.
sanlyn, that is so much information. Right now I prefer to use only what I have. I have spent so much money already on digitizing gear, and I am still finding out new stuff. Right now, if possible, a good line TBC or pass-thru device comparable to ones found in S-VHS VCRs is what I need. If not, I may need to get a new S-VHS VCR.


Attached Images
File Type: jpg JVC & extern TBC error.jpg (35.4 KB, 20 downloads)
Attached Files
File Type: wmv JVC with external TBC.wmv (12.92 MB, 13 downloads)
File Type: wmv combo with external TBC.wmv (10.27 MB, 16 downloads)

Last edited by history1; 08-21-2014 at 01:10 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
08-21-2014, 02:09 PM
sanlyn sanlyn is offline
Premium Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: N. Carolina and NY, USA
Posts: 3,648
Thanked 1,189 Times in 958 Posts
Yes, indeed, ye olde budgetary concerns are always around. I don't mean to imply that I or anyone else collected all this gear in a weekend. Far from it. For a line tbc, the Panny DMR-ES15 does a decent job. For a one-time component purchase, I wouldn't recommend another device (although I do like the Toshiba if the tape's not in bad shape). The ES15 has a good y/c comb filter, too, if you're forced to use composite cable and don't have s-video to avoid dot crawl. Be sure to use the ES15's Line 1 input for tbc activity, and turn off its noise reduction (it's really too aggressive for most tapes). If composite output is all your player has, you can still use Panny's s-video output for a better picture (test first). Get one from a seller or source that doesn't have a boatload of complaints. Sometimes they're sold cheaper with a defective optical drive, which you won't need anyway for tbc, but you can bet that such units likely have other problems as well.
Reply With Quote
The following users thank sanlyn for this useful post: history1 (08-21-2014)
  #13  
08-21-2014, 02:27 PM
history1 history1 is offline
Premium Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: San Antonio, TX
Posts: 80
Thanked 7 Times in 4 Posts
Thanks for the recommendation sanlyn. Now the DMR-ES15, Can it do what an S-VHS VCR TBC do? I have read that some of these pass-thru devices do different. I have no experience with these. What can the ES15 do? Have you seen my attached videos? In addition to the date/time being shaky without my line TBC some of the video can be a tad wavy. Can it fix those issues?
Reply With Quote
  #14  
08-21-2014, 02:34 PM
premiumcapture premiumcapture is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 585
Thanked 69 Times in 63 Posts
The ES15 filters and other similar devices should only be used sparingly. It will align video at the expense of picture quality and is by no means perfect.

You need either a better JVC or a Panasonic 1980, the ES15 and others should only be 'once in a while' devices. I recommend Tom Grant for the 1980, which he's selling for roughly $330. I have tested JVCs for sale as well that don't have these issues for ~$200.

I would recommend downloading VidCoder and making a short clip from there and then uploading, or taking a screenshot with VLC in PNG format. I'm not knocking your camera-holding skills, but with the slight shake its hard to see what's going on with absolute certainty.
Reply With Quote
The following users thank premiumcapture for this useful post: history1 (08-21-2014), lordsmurf (08-22-2014)
  #15  
08-21-2014, 04:02 PM
history1 history1 is offline
Premium Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: San Antonio, TX
Posts: 80
Thanked 7 Times in 4 Posts
Quote:
You need either a better JVC or a Panasonic 1980
Due to financial restraints which one would you recommend? I need one with clear audio quality without those field separations while connected to my AVT-8710 TBC, as indicated in that snapshot. Video being too sharp is not a concern compared to those issues.

Quote:
I have tested JVCs for sale as well that don't have these issues for ~$200.
You have tested JVCs for sale with crisp high-quality audio and with no issues while connected to an external TBC? Which models are those?

Quote:
I would recommend downloading VidCoder and making a short clip from there and then uploading, or taking a screenshot with VLC in PNG format. I'm not knocking your camera-holding skills, but with the slight shake its hard to see what's going on with absolute certainty.
Ok. I am digitizing with a DVD recorder, not with my computer. So I had to make a comparison video, burn it to disc, and rip it to my computer. Attached to this post are both halves of that video. The first titled "S-VHS VCR line TBC" is some footage copied with my S-VHS VCR with line TBC enabled. The second titled "Combo no line TBC" is that same footage copied with my Panasonic DMR-EZ37V combo. No line TBC in that one. The date/time shakes in the combo video. I want my videos to look like the first video, but it looks like I may have to use an S-VHS VCR with TBC to achieve that result only. You can also tell the audio quality difference. It is clearer in the combo one. I want my digitizations to sound that good, and if there is an S-VHS VCR with that kind of quality, that would be awesome.


Attached Files
File Type: wmv S-VHS VCR line TBC.wmv (21.20 MB, 16 downloads)
File Type: wmv Combo no line TBC.wmv (24.52 MB, 9 downloads)
Reply With Quote
  #16  
08-21-2014, 06:13 PM
history1 history1 is offline
Premium Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: San Antonio, TX
Posts: 80
Thanked 7 Times in 4 Posts
Quote:
For a line tbc, the Panny DMR-ES15 does a decent job. For a one-time component purchase, I wouldn't recommend another device (although I do like the Toshiba if the tape's not in bad shape).
sanlyn, Pass-thru TBCs are strictly for problem tapes, not minimal wavy vertical lines, is that correct? What is the extent the Toshiba can fix?
Reply With Quote
  #17  
08-21-2014, 07:45 PM
sanlyn sanlyn is offline
Premium Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: N. Carolina and NY, USA
Posts: 3,648
Thanked 1,189 Times in 958 Posts
Pass-thru line tbc's are used when a built-in line tbc is unavailable. They aren't "strictly for problem tapes".

Thank you for your effort to create your samples. Now...

I'd suggest that before you move on to considerations about equipment and processing, you might want to step back a bit. If you recorded some tape to a DVD-R, we'd expect to see brief cuts encoded as standard MPEG2. But we get a re-encoded WMV9 codec (we wouldn't recommend WMV9. Not for anything). They're deinterlaced using a method that caused some pretty bad distortion. There's no reason to add pillarbox borders to a 4:3 video, as any 16:9 display device or media player in a 16:9 monitor will put them there anyway. 854x480 is an invalid frame width for YV12 colorspace video, which requires mod-4 dimensions in both directions, and which many editors would refuse to import. That frame size made Avisynth crash, so I had to use another app to decode your videos to lossless media. 854x480 is not a valid frame size for any standard delivery format, which includes DVD, BluRay, and AVCHD. So apparently your ultimate goal is PC-only playback. Even at that, if you played your videos on a 4:3 TV or display, it would be letterboxed.

The combo player obviously needs a line tbc. Other than that, in the SVHS video I don't see a "sharper" picture, but I do see one that has the the same bright-end, artifical neon effect pointing to the problem for which the JVC 9911 was notorious, and was the reason I returned my two copies. Because field decimation was used to deinterlace, your videos play at one-half of their original resolution -- so, not much can be said about sharpness factors. I did notice that the Combo video had some dropped frames. Some fine textural detail seems missing from the JVC version, but that's the look that JVC owners like. But that comment is still indeterminate because of improper deinterlace and re-encoding. With noisy tape and poor playback, some of the subtle stuff would disappear anyway after denoising.

Listening to audio via two sets of Grado headphones hooked up to high-end home equipment, as well as three sets of PC speakers (some old JBL's, some new PSB Alphas, and a newer pair of godawful Logitechs, and two different PCs), it appears that the audio thru your combo unit is louder than from the JVC. Louder volume alone almost always impresses untrained listeners as being somehow "better". In order to dispel that effect, I had to listen thru multiple setups. The JVC has a natural vocal tonal quality without nasality or boxiness, fairly decent bass, and just a little high frequency noise and a very gradual high-end rolloff. The combo unit has a sharp, clearly audible midrange hump that gives voices a noticeably honky discoloration, with lower midrange ringing that sounds almost like an echo; the combo has surpressed low-bass response, another hump somewhere in the upper bass, and a "hole" somewhere else in the bass response that I couldn't identify precisely. It also has squeaky treble, and audibly less of a sense of depth and soundstage width that the JVC does have.

If you want to submit unprocessed MPEG samples straight from a VOB file from your DVD recorder, you can make unprocessed direct cuts using the free DGindex utility. A post that explains how easy it is: http://forum.videohelp.com/threads/3...=1#post2272359 . DGIndex generates an .m2v video file and an AC3 audio file from DVD recordings.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
08-21-2014, 07:54 PM
premiumcapture premiumcapture is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 585
Thanked 69 Times in 63 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by history1 View Post
Due to financial restraints which one would you recommend? I need one with clear audio quality without those field separations while connected to my AVT-8710 TBC, as indicated in that snapshot. Video being too sharp is not a concern compared to those issues.
Both perform well, and each has particular things they are good at. Flagging and rippling issues are very much resolved on most tapes on an AG1980. The ones at TGrantPhoto are refurbished, but having used one, I can say they are in good shape. It has been a professional VCR for many over several years and has developed a good reputation.

The JVCs also do a pretty good job in those areas, not always as good, but I have always preferred the picture quality of JVC over Panasonic, though its a personal preference. The VCRs I have for sale have very few hours of use on them. The JVC noise reduction on these particular units is rather strong, so I recommend using it in Edit mode with TBC enabled. Very good at tracking EP tapes as well.

Either choice you make, you can resell the VCR with a small loss or gain here or on eBay without too long of a wait. It will resolve the issues you are having.


Quote:
You have tested JVCs for sale with crisp high-quality audio and with no issues while connected to an external TBC? Which models are those?
They are both JVC S7800's, one of the recommended VCRs for use by this site. They both have adjustable tracking. I has a 7600 which I preferred, but I sold that a few weeks to another member here. It does a fine job with audio, but be careful with your DVD recorder settings. Its usually best to record in PCM using good cables. If you record in AC3 with bad cables, you can't blame the VCR.

Quote:
Ok. I am digitizing with a DVD recorder, not with my computer. So I had to make a comparison video, burn it to disc, and rip it to my computer. Attached to this post are both halves of that video. The first titled "S-VHS VCR line TBC" is some footage copied with my S-VHS VCR with line TBC enabled. The second titled "Combo no line TBC" is that same footage copied with my Panasonic DMR-EZ37V combo. No line TBC in that one. The date/time shakes in the combo video. I want my videos to look like the first video, but it looks like I may have to use an S-VHS VCR with TBC to achieve that result only. You can also tell the audio quality difference. It is clearer in the combo one. I want my digitizations to sound that good, and if there is an S-VHS VCR with that kind of quality, that would be awesome.
Sanlyn just posted above about getting the MPEG-2 files up, I would follow this as more compression leaves less to look at.[/quote]

Quote:
Originally Posted by sanlyn
Pass-thru line tbc's are used when a built-in line tbc is unavailable. They aren't "strictly for problem tapes".
We need to be careful here. Using an ES-15 or similar DVD recorder will compress the input to MPEG-2 and add its on particulars to the input and output the MPEG-2 stream that would have been recorded anyways. Even capturing to another DVD recorder or to 422 will still end up with handling a 4:2:0 compressed stream that is sampled twice rather than the tape itself.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
08-21-2014, 08:09 PM
history1 history1 is offline
Premium Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: San Antonio, TX
Posts: 80
Thanked 7 Times in 4 Posts
sanlyn. I'm not sure if I'm answering this correctly, but the videos I posted are only samples. They are not final versions. I made a comparison video on my DVD recorder, put it on disk, ripped it, compressed it, and uploaded it here just to show you what I am saying about time base correction, what I am after, and the audio quality. Believe me, final video versions ripped off a DVD would be much better quality.

As for the audio quality, in my opinion, it is better and clearer in the combo version. I'm not a big fan of bass, bass looses audio clarity.

Last edited by history1; 08-21-2014 at 08:19 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
08-21-2014, 08:19 PM
premiumcapture premiumcapture is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 585
Thanked 69 Times in 63 Posts
If you are set on recording DVDs and getting an ES15 or ES20, you mind as well use the ES15 to record the DVD in the first place (its a DVD recorder).
Reply With Quote
The following users thank premiumcapture for this useful post: history1 (08-21-2014)
Reply




Tags
tbc, time base corrector

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
For.A FA-125 time base corrector vs. DataVideo TBCs? volksjager Capture, Record, Transfer 8 05-21-2018 07:37 AM
Myth or fact: timebase corrector (frame synchronizer) should always be used? premiumcapture Tech Myths, Misinformation 13 03-20-2017 03:37 PM
Can a Casablanca Video Editing machine be used for time base corrector (TBC) ? pete Edit Video, Audio 3 02-14-2012 11:52 AM
AV Toolbox AVT-8710 Multi-Standard Time Base Corrector, for sale, $180 [SOLD] threshold Marketplace 6 10-03-2010 08:07 PM
DataVideo TBC-100, 1000, 3000, 5000, 7000 Time Base Corrector user manuals [DL] lordsmurf Video Hardware Repair 3 08-19-2010 10:14 PM

Thread Tools



 
All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:07 PM