Quantcast Old VHS-C Tapes Transfer - Jitter and Blue Frame Issues - digitalFAQ Forum
  #1  
08-27-2014, 05:34 PM
Courtica Courtica is offline
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Maybe Lordsmurf can help with this:

I am converting old VHS-C tapes to Digital. The tapes were made from 1990 to 1999 or so with a JVC Video Movie GR-A1U. This device no longer works. The tapes had been stored in their cases and had not been subjected to any undo heat or humidity. They have also not been played in at least the last 10 years.

I purchased a like new JVC GR-SXM920U to use as a player for transferring. I am converting with an ADVC-110, and using Windows Movie Maker as the capture program. The playback of the tapes has some jitter and flashes of blue screen. The TBC on the JVC camcorder is on. I have attached a sample. What should I be doing, if anything.

Thank you in advance for your help!


Attached Files
File Type: mp4 Sample Clip 1.mp4 (2.11 MB, 17 downloads)
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  #2  
08-28-2014, 06:48 AM
volksjager volksjager is offline
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respool the tapes into full size VHS shells and use an AG-1980
ditch the Canopus device - DV is no good (and the TBC in it is fake) - use an ATI card
you need a good external TBC - like a TBC-1000
dont use window movie maker either
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  #3  
08-28-2014, 09:02 AM
sanlyn sanlyn is online now
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I don't know your plans for ultimate output, but your sample is suitable only for PC playback. It's also incorrectly deinterlaced and displays serious aliasing problems and other artifacts. The frame size and audio sampling rate are invalid for DVD or standard definition BluRay/AVCHD, all of which are usually interlaced formats. With a properly sized and processed capture, and a line tbc of some kind, your sample otherwise indicates that you could produce some nice videos from the originals -- but not using the way your sample was captured and processed. Also, your mp4 has a GOP structure of nearly 100 frames per GOP, which makes editing very difficult even for good smart rendering editors. You shouldn't be making major image modifications with lossy encoded mp4 anyway. Lossy output formats are not designed for editing.

I'll echo Volksjager: don't use Windows Movie Maker.

Last edited by sanlyn; 08-28-2014 at 09:13 AM.
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  #4  
08-28-2014, 12:56 PM
Courtica Courtica is offline
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My original transfers from the VHS-C tapes are saved in an .avi format. I only grabbed a small clip and converted to an .mp4 in order to upload so that you can see what I mean by the blue frames.
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  #5  
08-28-2014, 01:29 PM
sanlyn sanlyn is online now
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Understood. Just let us know, next time. Good luck.
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  #6  
08-29-2014, 08:28 AM
dpalomaki dpalomaki is offline
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Just some questions to consider in this process.

What are your ultimate intended formats, distribution, and media?

What quality level do you want/need (i.e., how good is good enough)?

How may tapes do you have? (If a small number it may be advantageous to send it out.)

Do you plan to do any editing of the captured video?

What software and hardware tools do you already have?

How much time, energy and money are you willing to spend on the conversion? And do you enjoy doing the conversion process?

These can guide your way forward.

FWIW: VHS-C adaspters/caddies are available that allow playing a VHS-C cassette in a VHS VCR. Under $10at Walmart on-line last time I looked. That may save the trouble trying to respool the tape into full size cassetts for playing in a good VCR.
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  #7  
08-29-2014, 08:50 AM
sanlyn sanlyn is online now
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The adapter might solve some problems but I'd suggest respooling anyway, whether on the adapter or to another container. This is called repacking, and it helps with smoother feed into the tape path. You repack by fast-fowarding to the end of the tape (without pause and without playing), then fast-rewind all the way back. You might have to repeat the process so that the tape is wound more smoothly into the feed side, with fewer bumps and ridges in the windings.
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  #8  
08-29-2014, 09:04 AM
volksjager volksjager is offline
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by respooling i meant to physically transfer the tape into regular VHS shells
this allows playback in good VCR's that are prone to eating VHS-C tapes
most adapters are crapola and even the powered JVC one can eat tapes
it is not hard - i have a blurb posted somewhere on the forum of how to do it
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  #9  
08-29-2014, 09:36 AM
sanlyn sanlyn is online now
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Agreed. Maybe some confusion over terms. I referred to repacking, container not withstanding. Thanks for clarifying.
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  #10  
08-30-2014, 08:35 AM
Courtica Courtica is offline
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Thank you for the replies. I apologize for not being more precise in my initial post, so I will add some additional information.

To answer dpalomaki's questions:

Firstly, I just want to preserve these movies to digital. In the future I may want to make simple edits, or burn DVD's. I know nothing about video editing.

As far as quality, I just need them to be viewable with proper sound sync.

I have 46 of these VHS-C tapes.

As far as hardware and software, I have the ADVC-110 to convert the analog camcorder signal to digital, I am using Moviemaker as a capture program, and then I am storing the large .avi files onto an external hard drive.

Sanlyn: I do have a JVC C-P6U cassette adapter that came with my original camcorder, but I have had a tape eaten, and got nervous so I purchased a new model camcorder to use as a player.

Some additional information: What is being captured is exactly how the camcorder is playing the tape. What I don't know is if the tapes are the problem, or the camcorder. I have converted 12 tapes so far. 8 have little to no issues. 2 have some intermittent spots where there are the problems described, and 2 have issues throughout the entire tape. My source tapes are all over the board. Some are recorded in SP mode, others in extended play. There are Kodak, Scotch, Maxell, Memorex, Panasonic, and JVC tapes. The clip I had uploaded was on a Kodak tape, all of the other ones I have transferred so far were on Maxell tapes.

As I mentioned, I am using a JVC GR-SXM920U as the player. The tapes were recorded on an older JVC Camcorder, that no longer works. I was frustrated by this issue and thought I had a poor camcorder, and so I purchased another one (They are cheap on E-bay) and have the same results; so I wonder if, in fact the tapes are the issue, or maybe I should be playing them through a full-size VCR.

Back when we were making these tapes, we never thought about what kind of problem it would be to play them 20 years later!
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  #11  
08-30-2014, 09:22 AM
volksjager volksjager is offline
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VHS-C cams all suck and the Canopus device will butcher your color
get one of the recommended full size decks (if you have alot of EP tapes then an AG-1980 is the way to go)
and transfer the tape to regular shells:


just rewind the tape all the way on the the non-geared spool.
dissemble both the compact tape and the donor VHS
then snip the leader and clip it on to a full size VHS reel.
then assemble the VHS tape with the 1 little reel on the feed side.
then fast forward all the way to the end , then swap the feed reel as well.

the only PITA of the process is removing all the tape from the full donor reel
the easy way around this is to use another donor tape - (i get boxes of them free at yard sales)
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  #12  
08-30-2014, 03:39 PM
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lordsmurf lordsmurf is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by volksjager View Post
respool the tapes into full size VHS shells and use an AG-1980
I use the JVC C-PU7 S/VHS-C adapter that came with S-VHS-C cameras in the late 90s. This is excellent, and I've never really had issues -- as long as a really good VCR (Panasonic AG-1980P!) is being used. I've never been a proponent of respooling tapes, side from (A) a bad VHS-C tapes, and (B) when this specific JVC adapter is unavailable.

Technically, yes, the transfer method is ideal. I just hate to mess with tape clamshells when it's not necessary.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dpalomaki View Post
FWIW: VHS-C adaspters/caddies are available that allow playing a VHS-C cassette in a VHS VCR. Under $10at Walmart on-line last time I looked.
Do NOT do this! The cheap adapters will eat a % of tapes.

__________

Cameras are a bad idea, too.

The Canopus ADVC-100/110 is far from ideal. It butchers colors.

And then Windows Movie Maker is not the tool to use here. Use WinDV if you can.

What version of Windows are you using?

Another option is to simply send those tapes to a service, since it's around 50 tapes or less. It will cost the same amount as buying all the hardware to do a good job, AND you still have to take the time to do it, AND you're not entirely experienced in video. So that's something else to consider. (I'm working a stack of VHS-C tapes for a client right now, in fact. I can already tell that he'd have had some issues with the DIY method, as some of these are stubborn. It's not a simple insert-play-record.)

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  #13  
08-31-2014, 10:24 AM
Courtica Courtica is offline
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My Windows version is 7 Professional
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  #14  
08-31-2014, 10:44 AM
themaster1 themaster1 is offline
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s-vhs case is better imo, always more robust, you'd just have to stuff the hole below to make it appear as vhs
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  #15  
08-31-2014, 12:32 PM
msgohan msgohan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Courtica View Post
The TBC on the JVC camcorder is on.
I'm not sure whether this was mentioned. Have you tried turning it off as well?

I think the most beneficial suggestion may be a Panasonic DMR-ES10 or ES15 given that Courtica has indicated the goal as "viewable" and not "highest possible quality". This thread reminds me of the errors described here.
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  #16  
08-31-2014, 09:20 PM
dpalomaki dpalomaki is offline
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Quote:
As far as quality, I just need them to be viewable with proper sound sync.
The ADVC-110 will do that for you. The color may not be perfect, but considering the source material, it may be good enough? You can judge that from the captures you have already made.

In case you have not noticed, most of the folks in these forums are very much into the capture and restoration process with a focus on optimizing the end result. Its a touch of turning a VHS sow's ear into a silk purse.

Unless you have the necessary fine motor skills, opening a cassette and re-spool the tape puts your tape at risk. While not exactly brain surgery, it does call for a bit more skill than, say, changing an oil filter.

If you want a better end product, and unless you want to build a serious hobby around the 42-tape project, with corresponding investments in time, learning curve, and money,as suggested above consider hiring it out.
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  #17  
09-01-2014, 01:44 AM
thecoalman thecoalman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by volksjager View Post
DV is no good (and the TBC in it is fake)
There is no TBC in the 110 fake or otherwise. I don't even see them listed anymore but I think it was the 300 and 500 with the LTBC.
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  #18  
09-01-2014, 06:55 AM
volksjager volksjager is offline
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it was the 300 i was thinking of that has the phony tbc
either way avoid canopus/grass valley stuff
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  #19  
09-01-2014, 04:00 PM
Courtica Courtica is offline
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Turning off the JVC Camcorder's built in TBC solved the flashing of blue frame issues. On a 16 minute video capture, I did not lose any sound sync. I will do my other tape that had the most issues; it is 57 minutes long. If have no problems, I may be good. If I have syncing issues, I will consider a stand alone TBC, or hire this project out. Thanks to everyone for their input.
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  #20  
09-01-2014, 04:04 PM
thecoalman thecoalman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Courtica View Post
On a 16 minute video capture, I did not lose any sound sync.
I've captured up to two hours with 110 with no audio sync issues. Couldn't tell you past that becsue I never captured anything longer.
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