#81  
11-02-2014, 11:43 AM
jriker1 jriker1 is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 68
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanks. Will do. Lordsmurf recommends installing the CMC (http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/vide...i-600-usb.html) but considering that looks like it only records in MPEG2, assume it has no value to me.

-- merged --

Always hated ATI. Never buy their stuff. Great hardware. The worst software. When I installed the driver of Diamond's site the first time I had a 2009 driver installed. When I reinstalled and installed the version off the disk first, had a 2007 driver. So I then ran the setup for the Diamond one, it just wanted to repair or remove, not upgrade. I repaired and it was still at the 2007 version. Go figure.

Even the latest version of the AMD site said latest version was already installed which obviously wasn't the case. Though when I originally just installed the Diamond MM version, I know the name of the company was something odd. Not ATI, or AMD, or Diamond.

JR
Reply With Quote
Someday, 12:01 PM
admin's Avatar
Ads / Sponsors
 
Join Date: ∞
Posts: 42
Thanks: ∞
Thanked 42 Times in 42 Posts
  #82  
11-02-2014, 11:58 PM
sanlyn sanlyn is offline
Premium Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: N. Carolina and NY, USA
Posts: 3,648
Thanked 1,307 Times in 982 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by jriker1 View Post
Lordsmurf recommends installing the CMC (http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/vide...i-600-usb.html) but considering that looks like it only records in MPEG2, assume it has no value to me.
It won't. lordsmurf does use CMC for some purposes. You can always install it later, but a decent DVD recorder would be better. CMC uses older encoding that looks good only at very high bitrates IMO.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jriker1 View Post
OK, Dongle installed. XP didn't recognize it of course. Installed the latest XP driver from AMD. That installed the ATI Catalyst Install Manager and the TV Wonder 600 USB driver. Assume that will also install the WDM capture drivers you mentioned? Note there is no reference to ATI or Catalyst or anything in the start menu. Not sure if this is normal.
It's normal. As nightshiver noted, you won't see CMC in the Start menu if you don't install CMC. The dongle input appears only in capture.

Adding to nightshiver's comments on your list of settings:
Quote:
Originally Posted by jriker1 View Post
Here is what I got so far. Let me know what to adjust if anything:

Launch Virtualdub
File > Capture AVI
Video > Preview
Video > Video Source > Video SVideo
Video > Capture Filter > Video Decoder Tab - Is the VCR Input relevant?
Video -> Compression -> Huffyuv v2.1.1 > Configure -> Both Pulldowns Best
Video -> Set Custom Format -> 720 x 480 x YUY2 (YUY 4:2:2 interleaved) - Is 720x480 right with new capture card (NTSC)?
Capture -> Disk I/O -> Chunk Size 12M & Chunk in Buffer 24 and Uncheck "Disable Windows write buffer"
Capture -> Check "Autoincrement filename after capture"
Audio -> Check Enable Audio Capture
Audio -> Uncheck Enable Audio Playback
Video decoder tab: "NTSC_M" is all that matters. "VCR" is probably grayed out.

You can use 720x480 or 640x480. I cap VHS at 640x480 because I hate working with stretched images. Normal folks would likely use 720x480 because DVD/BluRay SD sizes require that frame size. When I'm ready for 720x480 at the very end of all the work, I use 16-bit Avisynth plugins for resizing. My advice on resizing: always use Avisynth resizing functions and filters, otherwise just avoid resizing. Period.

Below are VDub capture settings I've used since 2002 or so. Most of them are defaults.

Code:
Capture Settings: (for AIW 7500 / 9600XT):

File ->
  - Set striping system...[ignore]
  - Allocate disk space...[ignore]
  - Previous File ID...[ignore]
  - Next File ID.......[ignore]

Device ->  
  - Device settings ->
      - [Un-check all boxes]
  - Tuner channel......[ignore]
  - Tuner input mode..."cable"
  - Capture devive choices
       Enable "ATI Rage Theater video capture" if available (likely is not)
       Otherwise enable "WDM capture" device or ATI device

Video ->
  - No display (disabled)
  - Overlay [ON]
  - Preview [OFF], except for histogram mode. See "Histogram", below)
  (NOTE: Different cards react differently to Overlay and Preview, depending
   on whether they're capture-only/USB devices or full-fledged 
   display+capture cards like the old AIW AGP's. Your display might look
   more "normal" with the above settings reversed.

  - Stretch to window (ON)
  - Histogram (OFF) - to view histogram, "Preview" must be ON. TURN OFF
       BEFORE CAPTURING.  

  - Video Source.....
       Select "s-video" or "composite"
 
  - Capture pin.....
       Stream Format....
      Video Format.....
             Video Standard: "NTSC_M"
             Frame Rate: "29.970"
             Color Space / Compression: "YUY2"
             Output Size: "640 x 480"  (if you want, choose 720 x480) 
   - Capture filter.....
       "Video decoder" tab ->
           Video Standard: "NTSC_M"
           other entries: no need to change any of these
       "Video Proc Amp" tab ->
           Some capture devices are equipped with these filters, some
           are not. If present, they should be the same as the filters
           found under the "Levels..." submenu (see below). If you see
           filters that indicate denoisers, degrainers, deinterlacers,
           etc., don't use them. Use the "Levels..." filters shown later.   
       
   - Compression.....
        [there should be no entries here]
   - Preview pin [should be grayed out]
   - Crossbar......[set by capture device - ignore]
   - Crossbar 2....[set by capture device - ignore]
   - Tuner.....[ignore]

   - Levels....These filters hook directly into your graphics capture
        device -or- into graphics card settings, depending on how the 
        capture drivers installed themselves. These are not RGB filters.
        Brightness/Contrast, etc., control elements of the incoming 
        signal.  DO NOT USE SHARPENING FILTERS DURING CAPTURE. The
        effect of black-level and bright-level changes can be previewed
        in Video -> Preview mode with Video -> Histogram enabled.

   - Cropping....[DON'T USE THIS. CHECK TO ENSURE ALL SETTINGS ARE "0"]
   - Swap fields....[OFF]
   - Noise reduction...[all disabled - DO NOT USE during capture]
   - Vertical reduction....["None"]
   - Extend luma black point....[OFF]     
   - Extend luma white point....[OFF]
   - Filter chain...[Disable all choices - DO NOT USE during capture]
   - Compression.....[set for huffyuv, Lagarith, or your choice. Note that
        huffyuv and Lagarith are more universally compatible with other 
        system setups for sharing. "UT" and other codecs require users to 
        install less universal codecs, and users might refuse to do so
        (I have more than enough codecs installed on my PC's and don't
        want yet another, so I ignore forum posts that use the UT codec). 
   -Set custom format....
        Set capture frame size to either either 640x480 or 720x480. Colorspace
        should be YUY2. DO NOT CAPTURE VHS OR digital (YUV) SOURCES INTO RGB.

Audio ->  
   - Enable audio capture....[ON] Note that you should hear audio during 
        play and capture. If you don't, do one of the following:
           (a) Click "Enable audio playback" ON, then OFF again.
           (b) Click "Video->Preview" ON, then OFF again 
        Capture cards differ in how they handle this.
   - Enable audio playback...[OFF]
   - Volume meter....Toggle On and OFF. Displays along bottom of window. 
   - Raw capture format...."PCM: 48000Hz, stereo, 16-bit"
   - Compression........"<No compression (PCM)>"
   - Windows mixer......shows audio sourcs available to your sound card.
         The displayed sources different with cards and USB. Select the
         USB input source if available, otherwise you will probably use
         "Line-In". Been a long time sin ce I saw a USB setup. On my
         9600XT setup the audio is "Audio Mix" in my SOund Blaster Blaster
         drivers. Your sound setup will differ. When you select the audio
         source in the mixer panel, don't turn the selected source volume
         all the way up (distortion will occur). 75% up should do it.
  - Audio input...[mine is set to "Line-In". Your choice of sources 
         might differ and will likely indicate the USB source.]
  - Audio source...[usually set to "Audio Line". USB source will differ]
  - Source selections [at bottom of Audio menu]........You might have 
         multiple sources shown here. Mine is set to "Sound Blaster Audigy"
         because most AIW AGP cards plugged source audio into the sound card.
         Your setup might have the ATI USB as a choice.  
         
Capture ->
  - Capture Video....[USE THE F6 KEY TO START CAPTURING. DON'T USE F5, AND
                      DON'T CLIKL ON THIS MENU COMMAND. I know someone said
                      the F5 audio sync was fixed, but it isn't. USE F6.]
  - Test video capture....You know what? I've never used this.
  - Stop capture......click this command line, or press "Esc".
  - Real time profiler......[ignore]
  - Settings.....
         - Wait for OK to capture: TURN THIS OFF
         - Frame rate: "29.9700"
  - Preferences......[Leave defaults as-is]
  - Stop conditions.....[Use these if you wish, otherwise leave all blanks]
Capture ->
- Timing.....Below are the settings I've used since 2002.



Code:
- Disc I/O....use defaults. 
  - Capture drives......I don't set any drive locations here because I don't
        capture to the same locations all the time, and I don't capture to
        segmented files. I have no entries here. Under min and max file
        sizes, enter 50 and 2048 if nothing is there.
  - Full screen...............[OFF]
  - Hide display on capture...[OFF]
  - Display large timer.......[OFF]
  - Show information panel....[ON]
  - Show status bar...........[ON]
  - Timing graph........[OFF]
  - Log.................[OFF]
  - Enable multisegment capture............[OFF]  KEEP THIS TURNED OFF
  - Start capture on left-click in pane....[OFF]
  - Autoincrement file name after capture..[OFF] Set your own filename before capture.
  - Enable timing log...........[OFF], unless you want it ON. Can write huge logs.


Attached Images
File Type: png Capture Timing R.png (106.8 KB, 107 downloads)
Reply With Quote
  #83  
11-03-2014, 12:33 AM
lordsmurf's Avatar
lordsmurf lordsmurf is online now
Site Staff | Video
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 13,509
Thanked 2,449 Times in 2,081 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by sanlyn View Post
It won't. lordsmurf does use CMC for some purposes. You can always install it later, but a decent DVD recorder would be better. CMC uses older encoding that looks good only at very high bitrates IMO.
I've been unavailable for the past few weeks, focusing on client projects instead, and that will remain true for a few more. But I am monitoring the site threads and posts, outside of the Helpdesk. And I couldn't let this one go unchallenged...

Quoting sanlyn, but mostly speaking to the OP...

It really depends on the recorder. It's not an easy yes/no situation. (Better/worse, whatever.)

I actually don't use ATI CMC all that much, because I do not often use the ATI USB cards that much. I have AGP, PCI and PCIe ATI AIW cards at my disposal. and those are better for both MPEG and AVI work. So it's true that ATI CMC is not as good as ATI MMC. And sometimes not as good as a recorder.

But again, it depends on the recorder AND the recording mode/settings. For example, at DVD bitrates, then JVC DR-M10/100 recorders blow away the ATI USB cards -- perhaps even the ATI AIW cards! But when it comes to the 15mbps ATI CMC MPEG-2 streams for Blu-ray, there's not way a mere DVD recorder can compete.

I'm not sure how much in/out of context to the conversation this post is right now -- I need to read the past 5 pages to refresh my memory on what's happening here -- but I just wanted to mention all this.

Video is not easy. There's lots of decisions to be made.

Never use ATI CMC, or ATI CMC, for AVI capturing. (Yes, I know, I use to profess the opposite, but that was when VirtualDub had errors in the pre-1.8.x days. And before ATI screwed up ATI MMC AVI capturing in later versions, where it'd go out of sync.) In fact, I'm not entirely sure ATI CMC can capture AVI -- I thought it only did DivX/MPEG-4 and MPEG-2. Not even MPEG-1. I'd have to re-look at it again.

From what I can see, you're getting great advice in this thread.

- Did my advice help you? Then become a Premium Member and support this site.
- For sale in the marketplace: TBCs, workflows, capture cards, VCRs
Reply With Quote
  #84  
11-03-2014, 02:45 AM
Nightshiver Nightshiver is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 76
Thanked 6 Times in 6 Posts
It's odd that you're having problems with the drivers, especially on XP. I never had any such problems when I was using XP.
Reply With Quote
  #85  
11-03-2014, 05:01 AM
sanlyn sanlyn is offline
Premium Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: N. Carolina and NY, USA
Posts: 3,648
Thanked 1,307 Times in 982 Posts
Seems odd to me as well. I know others who never had problems with ATI, and I haven't had a mishap since Windows 3.1, several PCs, and 8 ATI cards -- yet I see occasional "problem" posts now and then in forums. The only ATI mishap I had was in 2004 or 2005 when I foolishly allowed Microsoft to install "optional" ATI divers from the Windows Update site. Oops! Uninstall/reinstall time, and on that specific Windows PC I had to remember to never let Windows search the internet for new ATI or WDM drivers at bootup (tell Windows to never search and never remind you again about that specific hardware).

I'm sure that makes jriker1 feel great (Oops again), but there's usually a simple answer every time a problem comes up.
Reply With Quote
  #86  
11-03-2014, 05:13 AM
kpmedia's Avatar
kpmedia kpmedia is offline
Site Staff | Web Hosting, Photo
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 4,311
Thanked 374 Times in 341 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by sanlyn View Post
The only ATI mishap I had was in 2004 or 2005 when I foolishly allowed Microsoft to install "optional" ATI divers from the Windows Update site. Oops! Uninstall/reinstall time, and on that specific Windows PC I had to remember to never let Windows search the internet for new ATI or WDM drivers
I think we've all learned that lesson the hard way.

- Did my advice help you? Then become a Premium Member and support this site.
- Please Like Us on Facebook | Follow Us on Twitter

- Need a good web host? Ask me for help! Get the shared, VPS, semi-dedicated, cloud, or reseller you need.
Reply With Quote
  #87  
11-03-2014, 08:52 AM
jriker1 jriker1 is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 68
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thank you all for the input. Sanlyn, major props for going thru all those settings for me and anyone else who comes upon this thread. Figured out the problem with the drivers but it was a bit odd. I installed as my usesr who is an admin, and for some reason it pulled up a menu to update existing components saying they were all up to date. I chose to run as Administrator and then it just updated the drivers. Probably no different than if I never used the CD at all to begin with but now the driver shows 2009. Oddly the provider is eMPIA Technology whoever that is.

With my capture device, I read a lot of threads on DigitalFAQ that sounded like the HD 600 USB was a good capture device, but sounds like some of the responses here it may not be as good as I thought and should have gone with an internal based card. Oh well, going to go with what I have. Sure it's "decent".

With the VirtualDub settings.

For Capture Device Choices I have:

- Microsoft WDM Image Capture (Win32) (VFW)
- ATI TV Wonder 600 USB 2.0 (DirectShow)
- Screen capture
- Video file (Emulation)

Right now set on ATI TV Wonder...

Video Levels are now set to:
Brightness: 110
Contrast: 32
Hue: 64
Saturation: 32
Sharpness: was 2 set to 0

I changed Sharpness to 0 as it's my understanding that disables any internal sharpening action. What should the rest be set to as to not impact the import? I would prefer Virtualdub accepted the content without any changes in the look. Right now a lot darker than the original DV imports I was doing. For good or bad. Are there settings that would force VDub to just pass in the content untouched?

For the Audio part, Audio Input for me says "No audio inputs". Is this normal?
Audio Source is set for "Audio Line"
Audio Source Selection is set to "Capture Device"

Thanks.

JR
Reply With Quote
  #88  
11-03-2014, 11:16 AM
sanlyn sanlyn is offline
Premium Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: N. Carolina and NY, USA
Posts: 3,648
Thanked 1,307 Times in 982 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by jriker1 View Post
With my capture device, I read a lot of threads on DigitalFAQ that sounded like the HD 600 USB was a good capture device, but sounds like some of the responses here it may not be as good as I thought and should have gone with an internal based card. Oh well, going to go with what I have. Sure it's "decent".
It is. You would have a tough time seeing the difference between the two.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jriker1 View Post
For Capture Device Choices I have:

- Microsoft WDM Image Capture (Win32) (VFW)
- ATI TV Wonder 600 USB 2.0 (DirectShow)
- Screen capture
- Video file (Emulation)

Right now set on ATI TV Wonder...
Correct.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jriker1 View Post
Video Levels are now set to:
Brightness: 110
Contrast: 32
Hue: 64
Saturation: 32
Sharpness: was 2 set to 0
From memory of seeng that that device a long, long time ago, I don't recall what the defaults are. 0 sharpening is a good idea. If things look too dark, work with Brightness and Contrast. The way most of those two filters work is this: Brightness, contrary to what you might think, controls the black level (darks). If you see shadows and whatnot turn into blackish inky blobs with no detail, black levels are too low. Contrast controls the opposite end of the spectrum -- brights and highlights. The two interact to some degree, so you have fuss back and forth with them.

Hue and saturation are iffy. Unless you have a badly discolored tape, it's best to keep Hue neutral. If you try to to use Hue to control the color balance of VHS, you're in for a futile struggle -- color balance will change from shot to shot, sometimes within shots. So until you get accustomed to post-capture color work, try to find a neutral position for Hue.

Saturation: most players over saturate color, red especially. Over saturation effectively increases contrast to the point where colors exceed RGB 255 (washing out colors in the brights) and make darks look gloomy, lacking detail. It's almost impossible to set saturation correctly if Brightnesss and Contrast aren't set up well. If "32" is the neutral saturation point in that setup, use it or try to find something more sensible. Oversaturated colors tend to bloom (glow) or look like day-glo, neon, or some such artificial effect. With tape it will vary all the time anyway. With poor brightness, color will almost always look oversaturated. Fix Brightness and Contrast first.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jriker1 View Post
For the Audio part, Audio Input for me says "No audio inputs". Is this normal?
Audio Source is set for "Audio Line"
Audio Source Selection is set to "Capture Device"
"No audio inputs" would sound right, because you're not plugging the video cable into your sound card. Sound is coming from the capture device. My fuzzy memory doesn't serve me well concerning the "Line In" entry, because you're not using the Line-In jack on your audio card. Someone with more recent experience with the 600 should be able to advise on that.

-- merged --

digitalfaq and videohelp have a number of threads dealing with ATI/Virtualdub capture, as well as other cards with VDub. ANd other capture software, too. What we might have to straighten out if you have trouble is audio sync. Let us know if problems crop up. The AIW cards handled sound differently -- video and audio went into the card together, but the AIW's then separated audio and fed it thru the audio card. The 600 passes audio+video together thru the USB stick. So if anything has to be adjusted, it's a setting or two in the Audio settings in the image I included in post #94. Will keep chec king back to see what happens.

Meanwhile it appears that others are using "Line-In" for this USB device, so your setting is probably correct. The Line-In is on the capture device. Meanwhile I suggest that you turn on the Audio graph viewer by finding "Audio -> Volume meter" and turning it ON to check for audio input.
Reply With Quote
  #89  
11-03-2014, 04:31 PM
jriker1 jriker1 is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 68
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Alright. Found a good article or no longer available article (retrieved on internet wayback archives), on how to use the histogram to adjust the brightness, contrast, and saturation for a device in VDub so will give that a try. Not sure if it's OK to reference an external site to share it. Question. I did a one and a half hour recording on a tape to see what it would do. Got 2 dropped frames and 60 frames inserted. Is this a concern that I need to use the TBC-1000?

Thanks.

JR

Last edited by jriker1; 11-03-2014 at 05:30 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #90  
11-04-2014, 06:56 AM
sanlyn sanlyn is offline
Premium Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: N. Carolina and NY, USA
Posts: 3,648
Thanked 1,307 Times in 982 Posts
You can try the ES15 and the TBC-1000 together to see if it fixes the problem. If it doesn't, the couple of dropped frames isn't all that unusual, but 60 inserted frames is. The Panasonic has to be first in the chain, then the TBC-1000. IF you place the TBC-1000 in the circuit first, the Panny won't do anything.

If that doesn't improve the situation, the settings in that "timing" dialog panel can be optimized to suit the way the card and your OS behave together. That's almost always the area where framing and sync problems occur.
Reply With Quote
  #91  
11-04-2014, 10:53 PM
kpmedia's Avatar
kpmedia kpmedia is offline
Site Staff | Web Hosting, Photo
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 4,311
Thanked 374 Times in 341 Posts
I find inserted frames is usually one of two issues:
- dropped frames -- ie, lack of TBC on the video. It's a video hardware issue, not computer-side issue.
- I/O problems, most likely caused by fragmentation on the hard drive being captured to. Or using the OS drive, like you're not supposed to.

- Did my advice help you? Then become a Premium Member and support this site.
- Please Like Us on Facebook | Follow Us on Twitter

- Need a good web host? Ask me for help! Get the shared, VPS, semi-dedicated, cloud, or reseller you need.
Reply With Quote
  #92  
11-05-2014, 07:12 AM
sanlyn sanlyn is offline
Premium Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: N. Carolina and NY, USA
Posts: 3,648
Thanked 1,307 Times in 982 Posts
True. A capture PC needs two hard drives. Capture and processing shouldn't be done n the same drive that contains the OS.
Reply With Quote
  #93  
11-05-2014, 08:51 AM
jriker1 jriker1 is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 68
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
OK, I tried a different bad approach. I say bad because history tells me when troubleshooting a problem don't try multiple solves at once. I defragged the hard drive even though I just built the system. Never know. Also tried a different "higher quality" VHS tape. Original from The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy. Figured if I was going to watch something convert might as well be enjoyable. That went thru with no issues. Other than being 80GB and converting on a computer with no wired network so moving the file proves fun.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sanlyn View Post
True. A capture PC needs two hard drives. Capture and processing shouldn't be done n the same drive that contains the OS.
Brings me to your comment quoted above sanlyn. When you say "processing", are you referring to post cleanup? For me the system just sits there while encoding. Don't do anything else. I do know frequently in Virtualdub when I hit F6 to start encoding the inserted frames thing happens like one or two counts at the very start. Not sure if at that point I'm doomed and should try again.

Also note, oddly enough in the analog world, I ran the issue tape thru again (before defragging), and it had the exact same amount of dropped frames and inserted frames. It was about an hour and fifteen into a two hour video and noticed it seemed to be moving in slow-mo at that point.

Imagine it makes sense to run thru all the tapes that don't need a TBC and then return to the problem ones at the end. I now need to figure out my best options for cleanup of the video before converting a bunch of tapes and finding my encoding process is flawed or something and having to start all over again.

I'm thinking of a few workflows right now. Note I work on the IT side at a creative agency so am thinking of trying some higher end tools I have access to that the designers use here:

Thought 1:
  1. Open video in AutoDesk Smoke
  2. Learn and use their denoising tools
  3. Learn and use their color correction tools
  4. Figure out how to black bar the outer edged.
I've heard AutoDesk Smoke is killer so figured I'd maybe learn how to use some of it's basics to clean things up a bit.

Thought 2:
  1. Open video in Adobe Premiere CC
  2. Add NeatVideo filter and create noise profile to reduce noise
  3. Use the Fast Color Corrector or Three-Way Color Corrector to adjust coloring
  4. Black bar the outer edges
This process above I'm highly familiar with cleaning up digital film content (minus needing the black bars)

Thought 3:
Try and adapt some of the AviSynth filters and scripts I've seen out there to my materials.

I won't even start to think of what bitrate to encode this material in. Low quality VHS, cleaned, color corrected. Makes me go hmmm... trying to think what bitrate this content should be encoded in but will worry about that one later.

Open to any other suggestions or examples.

-- merged --

Side note since editing my prior post is locked. REALLY? I think AutoDesk Smoke ($3500) can't open AVI files. So unless I find out otherwise from AutoDesk, looks like that option may be a bust.

JR
Reply With Quote
  #94  
11-05-2014, 01:35 PM
sanlyn sanlyn is offline
Premium Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: N. Carolina and NY, USA
Posts: 3,648
Thanked 1,307 Times in 982 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by jriker1 View Post
Also tried a different "higher quality" VHS tape. Original from The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy. Figured if I was going to watch something convert might as well be enjoyable. That went thru with no issues. Other than being 80GB and converting on a computer with no wired network so moving the file proves fun.
80GB at huffyuv YUY2 must be 2 hours or more. Notes later on how to get 2 hours of DVD on a disc without making it look like VHS again.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jriker1 View Post
Brings me to your comment quoted above sanlyn. When you say "processing", are you referring to post cleanup?
I'm referring to everything. This has been mentioned so many times in so many posts and guides over so many years, it goes without saying that trying to buck the system will usually get the same results again and again. Buck at your own risk.


Quote:
Originally Posted by jriker1 View Post
For me the system just sits there while encoding.
No it doesn't. It's reading and writing to memory and your hard drive, checking network status, running antivirus, checking time and clock status, writing to temp folders and the system work area, and your one-drive controller is trying to keep track of what the OS does and what you're doing -- all of which uses a series of system and drive controller interrupts and slows down everything.

I also saw some old posts here and elsewhere about specific ATI 6900 USB settings in the timing area that can affect a number of things. I'll have to look those up. Meanwhile it's not unusual to get a dropped frame or two in early sections of a tape or capture, especially when your hard drive controller is trying to sort things out and Windows is trying to create temp caching areas on the same drive.

Meanwhile I don't agree with your work flow. Most people make a capture or two, then learn how to work with it. But that's up to you.

AutoDesk is vast overkill.

Before you start throwing YUY2 interlaced captures into Adobe and NeatVideo, I think you should consider submitting an unprocessed edit of a sample capture. I'll guarantee it will be more than enlightening and will save time, effort, and money you shouldn't have to spend. One example is how to work with the black side borders and (don't forget) the bottom-border head switching noise and working with a slightly modified DVD frame size that won 't distort the original image display aspect ratio.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jriker1 View Post
Open to any other suggestions or examples.
Not much anyone can add until we've seen some video.
Reply With Quote
  #95  
11-05-2014, 04:30 PM
jriker1 jriker1 is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 68
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanks sanlyn. Let me get a snippet together. The 80GB video was 3 hours 13 minutes. Just as a reminder, I have zero intent to put these on DVD. I strictly plan to keep these on my video server as files. Stay tuned.

Oh by the way, as a side topic, I found a place I can get a brand new x-rite i1display pro monitor calibration tool for $154. They were selling it for one day for $179 and free shipping. No tax where I'm at. Plus the vendor for people's reference has a $25 rebate going on right now (http://www.rapid-rebates.com/xrite/). I missed the deal while negotiating but they said they would still honor it. Digital rebate so nothing to physically mail in. Thinking that's a good deal.

Edit: Forgot to mention in my doing multiple things at once thing. I disabled the network card during capturing to limit extra stuff going on.

-- merged --

What size video should I upload? I can cut a piece with avidemux however even a small segment is hundreds of megs?

JR
Reply With Quote
  #96  
11-05-2014, 08:13 PM
kpmedia's Avatar
kpmedia kpmedia is offline
Site Staff | Web Hosting, Photo
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 4,311
Thanked 374 Times in 341 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by jriker1 View Post
Side note since editing my prior post is locked. REALLY?
Posts can be edited for one hour. After that, just make a new post if you have more to add. We'll probably merge them. I just merged a bunch of posts in this thread. (But don't make our work harder here -- edit when possible!)

Quote:
Brings me to your comment quoted above sanlyn. When you say "processing", are you referring to post cleanup?
The OS drive is for the OS, programs, maybe documents -- NEVER the video. At all. Sometimes you can get away with capturing or encoding to the OS drives, but more likely not. Realize this is Windows specific, as the page file resides there. A Mac or Linux system has a separate partition for swap. Of course, Mac and Linux are not video platforms.

- Did my advice help you? Then become a Premium Member and support this site.
- Please Like Us on Facebook | Follow Us on Twitter

- Need a good web host? Ask me for help! Get the shared, VPS, semi-dedicated, cloud, or reseller you need.
Reply With Quote
  #97  
11-05-2014, 09:40 PM
jriker1 jriker1 is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 68
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Here's a sample. If you want something different or smaller let me know. Video segment is 400 megs. Assumed it wasn't something I could/should upload physically into the forum.

File: HHGTTG.avi

Note this is with Video Levels adjusted so black is black without crushing and white was white without crushing. I used a different video than this one to calibrate using the histogram. They are set to:

Brightness: 104
Contract: 44
Hue: 64
Saturation: 32
Sharpness: 0

Hue and Saturation are centered on the line in Video Levels, Contrast is up from 32 being the middle, and Brightness is lower than center being about 128 centered. Assuming center is "normal" and anything out of that is an adjustment to it. Letting you know in case you want me to re-capture with a different levels setting.

Thanks.

JR
Reply With Quote
  #98  
11-05-2014, 10:47 PM
sanlyn sanlyn is offline
Premium Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: N. Carolina and NY, USA
Posts: 3,648
Thanked 1,307 Times in 982 Posts
Say, thanks for the sample! Will take a longer look tomorrow A.M.

I don't envy you, though. Color and detail are petty much a shambles. This video looks as if it's been around the block a few times before it made it to your house. But nothing unusual about that when it comes to VHS. It looks as if this was hard-telecined movie source at one time, then somehow got interlaced, then was erroneously deintelaced, filtered like mad, then interlaced again. Sad to say, there's no fix for that particular kind of damage.
Reply With Quote
  #99  
11-06-2014, 08:35 AM
jriker1 jriker1 is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 68
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by sanlyn View Post
Say, thanks for the sample! Will take a longer look tomorrow A.M.

I don't envy you, though. Color and detail are petty much a shambles. This video looks as if it's been around the block a few times before it made it to your house. But nothing unusual about that when it comes to VHS. It looks as if this was hard-telecined movie source at one time, then somehow got interlaced, then was erroneously deintelaced, filtered like mad, then interlaced again. Sad to say, there's no fix for that particular kind of damage.
Thanks sanlyn. This is a commercial recording so was hoping it would be the cleanest over my camcorder family stuff. It does come from the BBC so perhaps it went thru some changes to make it to NTSC world.

-- merged --

I've attached a link for reference with approximately the same segment of video without the ES15. Slight tearing on top but wanted to see if that was causing what you were seeing. I'm thinking no difference. Maybe even slightly better with the ES15.

Watch some of the coloring. I think in a lot of the segments colors are heavily saturated on purpose for effect.

Link without ES15: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...nodvd-part.avi
Reply With Quote
  #100  
11-07-2014, 08:45 AM
sanlyn sanlyn is offline
Premium Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: N. Carolina and NY, USA
Posts: 3,648
Thanked 1,307 Times in 982 Posts
Hmmm...well, the tape might be a commercial recording but I'm accustomed to much better work from the BBC, even with washed-out looking BBC translations on VHS from shows in the 70's. Hate to say it, but whatever the source the tape looks like an amateur job. Got some serious problems ahead.

As you say, it's saturated but it still shows bad off-color problems, and the loss of chroma resolution and density kinda smacks you in the face. That's not counting the disappearance of detail and clumpy grain instead of fine gradations. Levels are a problem, too, mostly with clipped brights and murky shadows (two hallmarks of VHS).

The image below are copies of and Avisynth YUV levels histogram (on the left) and Virtualdub RGB waveforms (on the right). Both show clipping and crushed darks, some of which seem to come from the tape creation process. (pink arrows point to a couple of sample trouble spots).

From frame 93 (original):


From frame 1432:


Tell you what, I'll say this tape was made from another tape, and one player along the line either had no tbc or a very weak one. No line tbc can repair bad ripples from a tape that came from another tape, but at least your ES15 shows it can keep bad ripples from getting worse. The movie also shows tell-tale signs of VHS capped to some form of DV compression (mosquito noise, poorly defined edges, signs of posterizing and other compression artifacts). The extracted images below are 2X blowups from portions of frame 93 of the capture. Lower left, you can see red chroma noise (rainbows) in the guy's dark jacket. Upper left is chroma upsampling error in the red letters with red color shift and bleeding, and look at the "sparkles" and other edge artifacts. In the ladies' faces you'll see more sparkles and other mosquito effects, edge halos, signs of dark right-edge oversharpening ghosts (in the dark background to the left of bright faces), and remnants of dot crawl.



In still shots this junk doesn't too bad (by today's very low standards, anyway). But The noise changes shape and moves around in every frame. As you'll see in the following post.......


Attached Images
File Type: png F 93 - YUV and WaveForm.png (233.6 KB, 91 downloads)
File Type: png F 1432 - YUV and Waveform.png (243.8 KB, 92 downloads)
File Type: jpg F 93 - problems.jpg (82.9 KB, 91 downloads)
Reply With Quote
Reply




Tags
tbc vhs

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Top Screen Tearing/Distortion GreenAcres Capture, Record, Transfer 6 02-15-2014 01:29 PM
VHS tearing even WITH TBC and JVC SVHS player. ramrod Restore, Filter, Improve Quality 2 07-13-2010 02:55 PM
Fixing VHS tearing during capture; JVC D-VHS vs. JVC S-VHS VCR? lucgallant Capture, Record, Transfer 10 05-09-2010 07:15 PM
VHS tearing - hardware to fix it? admin Restore, Filter, Improve Quality 2 10-01-2009 05:30 AM

Thread Tools



 
All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:08 AM