Quantcast Kramer SP-11D TBC issue, green noise on edge of video? - digitalFAQ Forum
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  #1  
09-04-2015, 04:11 PM
U-max U-max is offline
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Hello,

I'm transferring some U-matic and VHS tapes (respectively through composite and Y/C inputs) and I've noticed that SP-11D often puts a green flickering stripe on the bottom of the screen (take a look at the attached image). This problem must be simply to do with the way that VCR's place this head change-over (or head switch) in the blanking interval of the wave form. That's the 'skew' I get at the bottom of the screen and is normally never seen on 'over scanned' TV's. I can only assume that SP-11D get confused with this as it's non-standard in terms of broadcast TV? Other than the Vertical Shift, nothing else seems to make any difference. How can I get rid of this issue?

Thank you in advance.


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  #2  
09-04-2015, 05:23 PM
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Hello

I have of course also Kramer SP-11D.
However, it is not not suitably for signals of VHS + S. VHS correctly are time-steady, only I must lead through the signal by a DMR ES10 or a DMR EH595.
Then, however, the signal mostly goes out by SDI.

In the big contemporary Analogously Capture test Kramer SP-11D has not passed the test.

Here there was contribution 348 sometimes a link to my result of Kramer SP-11D

http://forum.gleitz.info/showthread....ghlight=Kramer


What you below in the film sees is of the Kopfumschaltbereich.
Only few recorders / players cover this edge from [Pana AG8600 + in 8700] JVC BR-S522 / 622 / 822

The edge can cover you with the postprocessing.

One did not see in the TV earlier the shimmering edge in the tube TV.
The signal was in the overscan area.
Also new TV have an Overscan area, but smaller.
Only if one according to TV on "nur Scan" switches over one sees the whole picture.

Because I nobody am able in English I have some problems with the description of the Kramers, especially the word "pedestal"


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  #3  
09-05-2015, 07:15 AM
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Hi Goldwingfahrer.

thanks for your reply. I must assume that SP-11D is a real crap for my purpose. What a pity!
By the way, the link you posted http://www.file-upload.net/download-8922071/Kramer.mpeg.html is dead. Datei existiert nicht!

What does it mean pedestal? Maybe "Sockel"? Anyway since is NTSC stuff, I wouldn't care.

I was considering getting another TBC unit (e.g. G2 MSTC Evolution) and see what happens.
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  #4  
09-05-2015, 09:52 AM
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Quote:
I must assume that SP-11D is a real crap for my purpose.
No..... one must deliver only there a clean time-steady signal, for example, from a Pana DMR ES10 or DMR EH595.
Thus I make this here.
I need this Kramer if I directly with capturen the colour pawning, must correct horizontally or Vertically.
Or must raise the sharpness a little bit horizontally or vertically.

Only I have problems with the Settings of the small Pin counter at the back.

Yes, now has seen that the file was extinguished in the link, a pity.

Quote:
What does it mean pedestal? Maybe "Sockel"?
Yes, can be in such a way, thanks.

Quote:
I was considering getting another TBC unit (e.g. G2 MSTC Evolution) and see what happens.
Ah... something so like in both pictures?
------------------
There is excuse..... for the German word "Kopfumschaltbereich" no English translation.
Kopfumschaltbereich = lower shimmering edge with capturen from VHS / V8 / Betamax....


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File Type: jpg a.jpg (35.2 KB, 18 downloads)
File Type: jpg b.jpg (37.2 KB, 16 downloads)
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  #5  
09-05-2015, 10:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goldwingfahrer View Post
No..... one must deliver only there a clean time-steady signal, for example, from a Pana DMR ES10 or DMR EH595.
Thus I make this here.
I need this Kramer if I directly with capturen the colour pawning, must correct horizontally or Vertically.
Or must raise the sharpness a little bit horizontally or vertically.
I've got it. The Kramer is the "icing on the cake" in your workflow. Interesting.
By the way, what do you think about Panasonic DMR-EH65 as passthrough instead?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Goldwingfahrer View Post
Only I have problems with the Settings of the small Pin counter at the back.
Look, my current settings are:

| 1 OFF | 2 OFF | 3 OFF | 4 OFF | 5 OFF | 6 OFF | 7 ON (auto gain) | 8 OFF |

I think would be suitable to your purpose too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Goldwingfahrer View Post
Ah... something so like in both pictures?
Similiar. The model that I own has also component and SDI outputs (take a look at the attached images), but sadly it's defective.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Goldwingfahrer View Post
There is excuse..... for the German word "Kopfumschaltbereich" no English translation.
Kopfumschaltbereich = lower shimmering edge with capturen from VHS / V8 / Betamax....
Kopfum schaltbereich=Head 'shift range maybe?


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File Type: jpg WP_20150905_17_05_48_Pro.jpg (81.6 KB, 16 downloads)
File Type: jpg WP_20150905_17_05_54_Pro.jpg (70.5 KB, 10 downloads)
File Type: jpg WP_20150905_17_06_23_Pro.jpg (69.3 KB, 8 downloads)
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  #6  
09-05-2015, 10:55 AM
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Quote:
I've got it. The Kramer is the "icing on the cake" in your workflow. Interesting.
Yes, perfectly.
I have only a few days ago a picture of my job with the Kramer + Pana DMR EH595 + to the interlaced controlling monitor here highly loaded.
I have 2 DMR EH65 and an EH595 and some ES10 + ES15


Quote:
what do you think about Panasonic DMR-EH65 as passthrough instead?
Yes... either I go out there by S. video [AV1] or by HDMI.
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  #7  
09-05-2015, 11:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goldwingfahrer View Post
Yes... either I go out there by S. video [AV1] or by HDMI.
The TBC/NR on the DMR-EH65 is strong enough to fix jitters and other stuff from analog sources? Can you turn it off or it's always on?

Here's my VCR's:

JVC HR-S7611 (S-VHS) - Edit mode, TBC off, DNR on
SONY VO-9600P (U-MATIC)
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  #8  
09-05-2015, 11:12 AM
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Quote:
Kopfum schaltbereich=Head 'shift range maybe?
Kopf Umschaltbereich....=...Head switching range
Hurray. I am able to do already a word more in in English

Yes, I like your G2 MSTC better... if I the back looks.
---------------------------

Quote:
The TBC/NR on the DMR-EH65 is strong enough to fix jitters and other stuff from analog sources? Can you turn it off or it's always on?
Is always on when I go over the Pana DMR.
If I want to capture directly in Lagarith or Huffyuv_MT.

But I capture with Canopus NX card.[to YUY2 and Canopus HQ oder HQX 8 or 10 Bit 4:2:2]

Different style and Canopus NX DMR
Post 548
http://forum.gleitz.info/showthread....er-HDMI/page55
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  #9  
09-05-2015, 12:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goldwingfahrer View Post
Is always on when I go over the Pana DMR. If I want to capture directly in Lagarith or Huffyuv_MT.

But I capture with Canopus NX card.[to YUY2 and Canopus HQ oder HQX 8 or 10 Bit 4:2:2]
Yeah, I see. I'm using Blackmagic Intensity Pro 4k for VHS capturing and AJA Kona LHe for U-matic capturing, always in uncompressed v210 10 bit 4:2:2 format.

DMR-ES10 or a DMR-EH65? What would you suggest me to get?
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  #10  
09-05-2015, 05:46 PM
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I can recommend the DMR EH65 or the EH595 / 585/575.
Jitterkorrektur is very good and the device gives the Sinal by HDMI out to the Blackmagic map.
The devices differ in the size of the hard disks capacity.

I have, yes 2, AJA Kona LHe and a box also, unfortunately, no free PC with a suitable place Seck with 4x Pci-E.

Quote:
always in uncompressed v210 10 bit 4:2:2 format.
Yes, with U-matic what brings certainly, but in VHS I do not know it.
Here gehts if I also wants with RGBA 4:4:4 and FFV1 also in 4:4:4
and also directly with Edius in Canopus HQX in 8 and 10 bits.

I do not see a difference, neither in a Kontroll monitor Class-A or class B

Thanks for him tap with the Kramer Settings.
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  #11  
09-06-2015, 02:37 PM
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I think I will go for a good one used DRM-EH65. Thanks for the tip.

One more thing... TBC passthrough is possible from all AV inputs of the above-mentioned DMR models? Thanks again.
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  #12  
09-07-2015, 12:38 AM
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I'd not worry about the green stripe. It's just typical tape overscan noise. Just mask the overscan. Problem solved.

I'm not aware of the EH65 having passthrough. Just the ES10 and ES15.

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  #13  
09-07-2015, 01:47 AM
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Quote:
I'm not aware of the EH65 having passthrough. Just the ES10 and ES15.
Nevertheless, this makes nothing, we have tested a lot of DMR in the big contemporary analogously Capture test.
I have got silver hair and have become more clever a little bit.
If it tries out, nevertheless, nevertheless, DMR EH65 is cheap to have.
HDMI from or if S. video....
or from then only in the AV1.
Other bring luminance variations in the issue picture.

U Max
I have here today early 5:30 o'clock also moved on a DMR EH65, there can connect I the cables of the S. VHS recorder behind with the AV4.
In front connected looks here not nice.

Small tips.
The hard disk always run with......... after about 30 minutes you get an announcement in him
Capture stream "HDD-Sleep".
This must not be.

Solution:
Concurrent admission also on the internal hard disk or....
format in the DMR EH65 before a DVD-RW and lay these DVD-RW after in the DVD disk drive.
Now gibts it no announcement "HDD-Sleep"
No joke, we have tried out also in the test.

Here another 2 small pictures.


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  #14  
09-07-2015, 04:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lordsmurf View Post
I'd not worry about the green stripe. It's just typical tape overscan noise. Just mask the overscan. Problem solved.

I'm not aware of the EH65 having passthrough. Just the ES10 and ES15.
Hi lordsmurf,

thanks for your suggestion, but my aim is to capture clean digital master footage with no evident artifacts like that annoying green line. I would not do editing or post-processing. I aknowledge that evidently the Kramer is not adequate enough for my purpose. I had a FOR.A FA-310P in the past and it gave me excellent results.

By the way, how would you mask the overscan?

to Goldwingfahrer

What about the DMR-EH585 instead? It has only 1 AV input on the front.
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  #15  
09-07-2015, 04:24 AM
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Masking: How to Properly Crop the Overscan in VirtualDub [GUIDE]
There's several ways to do it.

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  #16  
09-07-2015, 06:17 AM
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Quote:
but my aim is to capture clean digital master footage with no evident artifacts like that annoying green line.
With the better setters one can cover the lower edge.

In the rule I make the cover after in VDub or in Edius or Avisynth.

Directly to cover the lower and, if necessary, also the upper edge with the Capturen goes with an ELRO 300 or 220.
Pictures below.


Quote:
What about the DMR-EH585 instead? It has only 1 AV input on the front.
This is no "exit" separate an "entrance" for FBAS or S. video plus audio.
"german= Das ist kein "Ausgang" sondern ein "Eingang" für FBAS oder S-Video plus Audio."


HDMI is behind.

The EH585 is same like my EH595... Yours has only the smaller hard disk.


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  #17  
09-07-2015, 12:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goldwingfahrer View Post
This is no "exit" separate an "entrance" for FBAS or S. video plus audio.
"german= Das ist kein "Ausgang" sondern ein "Eingang" für FBAS oder S-Video plus Audio."

HDMI is behind.

The EH585 is same like my EH595... Yours has only the smaller hard disk.
That's what I was intended to say. DMR-EH585 has got just one audio/video input on the front panel (AV3).

Getting back to our original discussion, I'm in touch with Kramer support and asking for some advice in order to fix the green line. I'll let you know ASAP. By the way, what's the firmware version of your unit?
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  #18  
09-10-2015, 04:14 PM
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to Goldwingfahrer

What about the DMR-EX77EB? Is passthrough capable? Thanks
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  #19  
09-10-2015, 05:22 PM
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If I cannot say, presumably it is okay.
Try....

1 hour capturen......
......
then Stream open in VDub..... File "open video file"
File... "file of information"
Line 2.... precisely like in line 4 "number of Key frames = okay

Audio also control whether is same.

I had only one Pana DMR EX49....... he was able to do inside only few tapes [PAL + NTSC]
cleanly are economical. He still had no HDMI, only YUV [Y Cb Cr] and s-video.
So tapes pass the ball with an EX DMR a luck thing is concerning picture and Audioquality... no matter whether by HDMI or from Scart/Peritel in S. video.
It depends on the tapes and with which recorders they were recorded, but as "a Passthrough"
if I tried out him.

Posting U-Max #17
Quote:
Getting back to our original discussion, I'm in touch with Kramer support and asking for some advice in order to fix the green line. I'll let you know ASAP. By the way, what's the firmware version of your unit?
Firmware = 15
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  #20  
10-21-2015, 10:00 AM
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Ok, thanks man. Mine is 2.0 but it's very strange. Kramer said me that this version has never been released I've tried to downgrade it to 1.5 (through null modem serial cable) with no success. Something is wrong with it I'm afraid. I will check the board and the PSU for bad capacitors. Anyway, a nice Pana DMR-585 is on the way. Do you think a full TBC unit would still be necessary in the workflow (e.g. SVHS or U-matic deck - TBC - DMR - Intensity Pro 4k) in order to reach a stable signal?
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