Quantcast Deinterlacing, help needed, video damaged? - digitalFAQ Forum
  #1  
01-03-2017, 04:46 PM
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Have two videos that were sent to me that look like pics 1 & 2 on this website

http://www.100fps.com/

Both DVD sets total of 6 or 7 DVD's of two programs about 5 hours long each, recorded HD feed to SD DVD recorder in full screen mode 704x480, NTSC.

Been messing around with this.

Here is the goals, to remove the interlacing damage and have good motion on the video playing on an HD LCD TV, in an mpeg2 format.

Have tried several of the internal virtual dub methods of blend, Muskun, and Yadif.

So far in my opinion the results have been pure crap. On the computer it plays fine, with just a little damage.

Wouldn't mind sending this out and pay to have fixed, if someone can pull the fields out of the video and re-blend to a perfect match with no field damage that would be the dream. Cause I sure as heck can't do this.

No problem with a progressive video, but the motion has to be good.

Have so much other stuff going on, don't have time to learn this and more than likely don't have the software to even to pull this off....

Really have not needed to Deinterlace anything before cause I followed all the guides on this website...

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  #2  
01-04-2017, 02:43 PM
sanlyn sanlyn is offline
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I don't think you'll get any offers without more information. The pics you posted aren't examples of bad deinterlacing or interlacing, they're examples of improperly resizing interlaced video. Get one of your DVDs, use the free and simple DGindex to make a short sample m2v (an MPEG without the audio) from one of the DVD's VOB files and post it here.

A quick tutorial on how to use DGindex and make a sample m2v: http://forum.videohelp.com/threads/3...=1#post2272359.

We don't even know if your DVDs are interlaced. If they're film based, they're telecined and should be inverse-telecined, never deinterlaced.

There is only one deinterlacer in the world that's very high quality, and that's Avisynth's QTGMC. The best inverse telecine is Avisynth's TIVTC. Forget about repairing with VirtualDub. Keep in mind that deinterlacing doubles the frame rate, which is not valid for DVD and can only be "generic" MPEG2 or another codec. Field-blending interlaced video is something no advanced user would go for, and the damage is permanent. Inverse telecine will produce a progressive film-speed video at 23.976 fps, which can be re-encoded for DVD or BluRay with pulldown applied for 25 fps (PAL) or 29.97 fps (NTSC) playback, whichever applies.

I'm getting the idea that your recordings are windowboxed HD in a 4:3 frame. A sample would still be needed.

Last edited by sanlyn; 01-04-2017 at 03:26 PM.
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01-04-2017, 10:29 PM
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It was recorded TV, no they are full screen and not Window box, the picture is really strong.

I was cutting the clips to upload, of course they had major interlacing damage.

Than just started coding random output takes, what ever my video editor would do, switched fields and ect.

May have found something, will post back. Would rather not deinterlace cause have already seen the effects.

Yes it looks like the 1st two pictures and the video was not resized that is how they look on the TV.

Here is the demo clip of a TV commercial, at the end on the AT&T logo you can clearly see the mixed fields.


Attached Files
File Type: mpg TV.mpg (20.58 MB, 10 downloads)

Last edited by deter; 01-04-2017 at 10:41 PM.
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  #4  
01-05-2017, 03:51 AM
sanlyn sanlyn is offline
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The video was never interlaced. It is telecined. Whoever processed it earlier (The "they" you refer to ?) copped vertically using odd-numbered scanlines and ruined the bottom-field pixel placement. You can't re-create missing scanlines, so there's nothing you can do about it except raise every odd field by 1 pixel (which means you would have to convert to RGB) and re-weave the fields. But you will still see aliasing. After some vertical cropping, the frames appear to have been were resized vertically, but I can't tell for certain.

I would have to work with this a little in Avisynth to see what can be done.
The video is dark as hell. What happened to the audio?

-- merged --

Quote:
Originally Posted by deter View Post
It was recorded TV, no they are full screen and not Window box, the picture is really strong.
I was cutting the clips to upload, of course they had major interlacing damage.
Than just started coding random output takes, what ever my video editor would do, switched fields and ect.
May have found something, will post back. Would rather not deinterlace cause have already seen the effects.
Yes it looks like the 1st two pictures and the video was not resized that is how they look on the TV.
Here is the demo clip of a TV commercial, at the end on the AT&T logo you can clearly see the mixed fields.
This video was telecined, not interlaced. The video was apparently bob-deinterlaced using a simple bob, likely to crop the bottom-border noise, then slight vertical resize to fill the frame. This was not the proper way to process a telecined video, as 3:2 telecine for NTSC has groups of 5 fields -- 3 of every 5 are progressive and 2 appear as interlaced. In an interlaced frame the bottom field is located 1 pixel lower than the top field. If the frame is vertically cropped at top or bottom using odd numbers (not divisible by 2), the bottom field will appear to be displaced 1 pixel lower than the top field. The result is fluttery motion with aliasing and edge "buzz".

The image below is the original video with ragged edges and broken horizontal lines in the small letters.


Below, both fields with the bottom field raised by 1 pixel to its original position.


The way the video plays field by field is shown in the attached TV_even and odd field shift_4fps.mpg. To make this video the half-height fields were separated and expanded to full size, and the frame rate was reduced to 4 fps. You can see that even fields are higher than bottom fields, which results from a simple bob. You will see the separate fields hop up and down (or "bob").

Unfortunately the original field phasing can't be replaced, so the small letters appear to be "missing" some horizontal pixels and edges will still look aliased on motion. This occurs because the cropped video had been re-encoded with the bottom fields displaced. The aliasing can be repaired only with strong anti-alias filtering. I added additional filtering to clean re-encoding compressing artifacts in the original. The soft look of repaired edges cannot be improved, but most of the line buzzing is smoothed out.

In order to apply corrections I inverse-telecined the clip to its original 23.976 progressive film speed. Then after cleanup I encoded the video for NTSC DVD with 3:2 pulldown flags added for 29.976 fps playback. The video is properly encoded as 16:9 (without resizing) -- the original incorrectly encoded for 4:3. The result is attached as TV_16_9_reworked.mpg. There is no audio. The audio track in the original sample was silent.

To run Avisynth and make corrections, DGindex was used to make an index and a .d2v project file of the mpg sample. The Avisynth script I used to make the corrections:

Code:
MPEG2source("E:\forum\videos\TV.d2v")
AssumeTFF()

### -------------------------------------------
#   Separate the fields, then remove top pixel from bottom
#   fields and add a line of pixels to the bottom in order
#   to raise the bottom fields to the same level as 
#   even fields. Then re-weave the fields into full frames.
### -------------------------------------------
ConvertToRGB32(interlaced=true)
SeparateFields()
a=last
e=a.SelectEven()
o=a.SelectOdd().Crop(0,1,0,0).AddBorders(0,0,0,1)
Interleave(e,o)
Weave()

### -------------------------------------------
#   Remove telecine to get progressive fields at 23.976 fps.
#   TFM() does field matching to search for duplicate fields.
#   TDecimate() discards duplicate fields.
### -------------------------------------------
ConvertToYUY2(interlaced=true)
TFM(order=1,pp=0).TDecimate()

### -------------------------------------------
#   Return to original YV12 colorspace. The video is now
#   pure progressive frames. Smooth the aliasing and buzzy 
#   edges, then clean compression noise, and sharpen.
### -------------------------------------------
ConvertToYV12(interlaced=false)
Supaa()
QTGMC(InputType=2,preset="medium",border=true)
LimitedSharpenFaster()
return(last)

### -------------------------------------------
#   Code for the supaa() filter to smooth aliasing.
### -------------------------------------------

FUNCTION supaa(Clip Clp,Int"SS",Bool"CP") 
{
OX = Clp.Width
OY = Clp.Height
SS = Default(SS,2)
CP = Default(CP,True)
Clp = Clp.IsYV12() ? Clp : Clp.ConvertToYV12()
Clp.nnedi2_rpow2(rfactor=SS,cshift="spline36resize",qual=3).SangNom().TurnRight()
\  .SangNom().TurnLeft().Spline36Resize(OX,OY)
CP ? Last : MergeChroma(Clp)

Return(Last) }
Also attached is the text of a MediaInfo report on the re-worked TV_16_9_reworked.mpg. The report states that the video is 23.976, with 2:3 pulldown added for 29.976 playback. Usually 704x480 is used for 4:3 display aspect ratio, while 720x480 is for 16:9. I elected to leave the DVD at 704x480 rather than create more loss by resizing. 704x480 will work OK for 16:9 DVD. But for standard definition 16:9 BluRay, 720x480 is required.

-- merged --

Excuse me, readers, I keep typing "29.976" for NTSC. That's not correct. It's 29.97.
Actually it's 29.9700299, but who can work with that?


Attached Images
File Type: png original telecined.png (96.2 KB, 47 downloads)
File Type: png scanline placement corrected.png (93.0 KB, 47 downloads)
Attached Files
File Type: txt MediaInfo_TV_reworked.txt (1.9 KB, 0 downloads)
File Type: mpg TV_even and odd field shift_4fps.mpg (12.07 MB, 1 downloads)
File Type: mpg TV_16_9_reworked.mpg (21.40 MB, 3 downloads)
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  #5  
01-05-2017, 03:14 PM
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I am sorry, thought you said to upload with no audio. So that was my fault and also uploaded the TV ad, cause the screen was cropped and made you convert to 16:9, which is not how the videos looks. The video is fine in 4:3. Didn't want to put an actual sample clip on the internet cause this is rare to have on digital, didn't want people wanting to get copies of it. But whatever the film is damaged.

This render is how it looks on DVD. If I flip the fields during the rendering it improved the field damage.


Attached Files
File Type: mpg Sample (2).mpg (96.94 MB, 5 downloads)
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  #6  
01-05-2017, 03:34 PM
sanlyn sanlyn is offline
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Then suit yourself. The AT&T logo is a globe, not an egg.
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  #7  
01-05-2017, 03:53 PM
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If you are going to try to mess around with the file, use this sample, it is bad but not as bad as the one uploaded above.

Sanlyn, the TV ads are cropped different than the actual broadcast that was my mistake. so it doesn't need to be resized cause the TV ads are cut anyway.

Trust me on the TV the size of the recording is fine........


Attached Files
File Type: mpg sample4.mpg (96.94 MB, 5 downloads)

Last edited by deter; 01-05-2017 at 04:24 PM.
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  #8  
01-05-2017, 05:50 PM
sanlyn sanlyn is offline
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Trust you? I find it difficult to be guided by people who don't see well,.

You completely misunderstood the processing I discussed. The output video was not resized.

The aspect ratio on your last badly botched sample is not correct.

Last edited by sanlyn; 01-05-2017 at 06:15 PM.
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  #9  
01-05-2017, 07:01 PM
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My video system is tied up right now, and will be until next week, so I can't do more than read for the moment.

Without looking at sample, what I find confusing is the 16x9 vs 4x3 "issue". The video is clearly 16x9, so I don't understand where 4x3 is coming from. Yes, sure, 16x9 is stored as 720x480 for DVD, but if we're talking about deinterlace, DVD is already off the table (because there is near-zero legit reason to deinterlace discs, assuming no restoration back to disc).

@sanlyn: Remember that some people don't know stuff like we do. Have patience with them. They'll learn. It's why they've come here, asking questions. Let's teach them.

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  #10  
01-05-2017, 09:49 PM
sanlyn sanlyn is offline
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I attempted to post a detailed explanation of the cleanup, but will try to include more detail next time.

I would add that 16:9 is the display aspect ratio (DAR), not the physical frame dimensions. Both of the last two mpg samples are 704x480 frames encoded as 4:3 DAR but should be encoded as 16:9 DAR. I already explained this in my longer post but maybe I should state that point more clearly. With DVD and standard definition BluRay and other anamorphic formats, DAR and frame size are not the same things.

I have no ideas for the golfing mpg submitted above. It's plain vanilla interlace, but it was improperly cropped and then resized while still interlaced. I know of no fix for that kind of damage without destroying every detail in sight. The AT&T ad was a better prospect, as most telecined frames are progressive anyway. I always have to ask myself, "What in the world do people think they're looking at when they damage video like this?"

Last edited by sanlyn; 01-05-2017 at 10:03 PM.
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  #11  
01-05-2017, 11:05 PM
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sanlyn.

I didn't record this it not MY RECORDING.

Sample of the TV ad was taken from disc #2, these samples are taken from disc #1, I rendered the videos from two different computers using different software. Older Version and Newer Version of the same program. That is why I said I found something in the software.

What is uploaded in the last two uploads is what the DVD's look like.

In the overall recording the field damage does change, it is not the same through the entire video. The worst of it from looking at the DVD's is the segment I just uploaded.

Lord Smurf, the project is two recordings on 7 DVD's, they are recorded in 2 hour mode give or take. 704x480. Personally don't have the time to learn this, cause I don't get material that ever looks like this. Would like to salvage these recordings if possible, can send you the DVD if you wish. I will pay you for your work.

I have all the files already rip to my hard drive via VOB2MPG v3, I can just send you the files via flash drive, that way you don't have to rip them.

Sanlyn thank you for your service but your attitude has to go. Yes I already knew it is 16:9 recording that was fit and recorded to a 4:3 DVD. The guy recorded the HD feed, if it was standard TV like his other recordings it is fine. The HD is what caused the problem. Cause Disc 4 of this was recorded from a different channel in SD, guess what it plays perfect. The 3rd round of this was recorded from USA, plays perfect.

Stop calling me an idiot, I sent Lord Smurf a video tape which he could do nothing with, I went in to an AG 1980 unit and re did how the machine tracks tapes; just to get this tape to work, guess what it did. So don't play these insults. I can know fix any AG 1980 unit with in reason, and knew nothing about them when I started.

Lord Smurf if you want can send you a fully working AG-1980 VCR for this work......My view they are worth $800 to $1,000.

Last edited by deter; 01-05-2017 at 11:42 PM.
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  #12  
01-05-2017, 11:50 PM
sanlyn sanlyn is offline
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No one called you an idiot.

Sorry, your narrative about "recording" number, "render" generation, etc., is extremely confusing. Maybe it's too much information at once.

That golf video is a disaster. The people who gave you these recordings -- or renderings, or versions, or whatever they are -- are the idiots, not you. Do me a favor and call them idiots, straight from me. They have no business fooling around with video.

Quote:
Originally Posted by deter View Post
I didn't record this it not MY RECORDING.
I never implied that you made these recordings. They are not originals. They've been processed by some local morons with expensive NLE's and who gave them to you, after badly and permanently ruining them.
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01-06-2017, 09:00 AM
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sanlyn,

Nobody ever fooled around with this video. It was how it was recorded back in 2006. It was recorded to his HDD device than to a DVD recorder. He has two recordings like this.

Now I have other recordings from this guy for testing purposes. Had him send me a 2007 recording from an HD feed; that recording is fine. The setup an every thing else is the same 704x480, HD feed to SD.

Even on this recording disc 4 is from another network, it is fine.

By process of deduction the fault was caused by HD feed at the time. Since he used the same recording device on other recordings the device was not at fault. From looking at the start of the DVD's they were recorded to some type of Panasonic recorder.

Though the video looks like a complete and utter disaster, I believe it is possible to restore. Just on testing different Deinterlacing methods, have seen the field damage fixed enough to a point were the video is watchable and in good quality. The motion issues with deinterlacing, Long time ago posted something about VidFIRE. This type of process I felt was the key to unlocking this recording.

So even if the frame rate is doubled, and we can get an ok picture with motion out of it. If we take that double frame rate idea than re-record it back to a normal recording, it should work. The recording process is only being used to capture the video at 29.97 and 720x480, and have it recorded with the correct bit rates and so forth. At this point some quality lose is going to happen. The goal is just to fix the recording.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VidFIRE

Last edited by deter; 01-06-2017 at 09:20 AM.
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  #14  
01-06-2017, 09:29 AM
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Because of limits on uploads to the website could only upload a sample clip as stated the field damage differs through the entire video so pushing the bottom frame up will not work, and it is impossible to tell were and when the field damages changes. As stated the last two clips uploaded was the worst of it. Around the bunkers it is just looks terrible.

From looking at the source videos again was able to see that the field damaged does change.
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01-08-2017, 06:01 AM
sanlyn sanlyn is offline
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Except for (maybe) feeding the original cable signal through a game capture device, the twittery and badly aliased samples are probably exactly what the cable company transmitted. I don't waste my life watching sports channels on cable and wish I could have charges for those channels removed from my cable bill. But this morning I tuned to some of those "HD" sports channels and got an eye full of purposeful technical incompetence. And people actually spent money (and time) watching these obviously faulted broadcasts? There is no repair for that garbage, stop wasting your time. The cable stations are likely corrupting the signal on purpose to discourage copying -- if not that, then they're just killjoys playing with their expensive video toys and smirking at suckers who pay their bill every month to watch this stuff. Just goes to prove that the average TV viewer will watch anything, especially if it moves and makes noise, and will pay good money for it.
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01-09-2017, 07:32 AM
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You just egg me on in all these posts, than my comments, which are great one liners, get deleted.

Did you watch Aaron Rodgers last night, he was amazing and put together a masterful performance. Been saying this for years, he is the best quarter back I have ever seen in my life. Brady has the records and has done this over a long time. Montana has the Super Bowls. Rodgers when he is on is the best passer of all time. He hits spots nobody can. Of course you never playing any kind of sports or being good at anything athletic can't see this, you only see the defect in the picture. Your the guy they made these participation trophies for. I only ever played for championships, the title was the only thing that mattered, 2nd place meant you didn't win.


This post is over, just going to trash the DVD's. Have another copy of this, don't really care about, to be honest.
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  #17  
01-09-2017, 10:28 AM
sanlyn sanlyn is offline
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I just don't watch channels that screw up the signal with cheap tricks like faulty supersampling, as it burns me up that cable is annoying the hell out of me and making me pay for it to boot. I've turned off a channel plenty of times because the picture was just too bad to watch. Sports channels are among the worst offenders. Digital technology was supposed to furnish superior quality, not cheaper garbage at increased cost to customers.
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01-09-2017, 01:25 PM
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Sanlyn,

You know sometimes I am only joking with you in these posts, honestly never met anyone like you before. Your level of perfectionism is OCD, is your house a mess or clean, is your sock drawer organized or a mess? Can't even begin to explain it.

Personally I like older stuff shot on film, to me film has a better look than this HD digital stuff, that is just my opinion. Also like remastered stuff, when they re do a CD or remaster an old film, usually will get it.

I was never a Star Trek fan, but when they remastered all the old TV episodes had to buy them.

My OCD with Video Tapes is picture tearing and rips, that drives me crazy, so I fix that. To me you are the bootleg collector that has to have the audience recording from 1968 uncompressed to save the quality. Than when you convert it is has to be DVD audio. My thing is, look not going to go mp3 with it, but CD quality is fine but would rather have the DVD audio or even higher, it is too much of a pain, will just settle for the CD and fix the nicks and scratches in the recording. The quality was never great to begin with.

This Masters recording to me is priceless cause it is HD feed digital from 2006, which I don't have anything of.

This last sample here is direct from NFL films it was converted from the master betacam, it is pretty old, it is what you deal with, it has errors and the picture is not perfect. It doesn't drive me crazy to watch this, and I may never watch this video again, but have it in my video library. Not going to waste my time trying to fix this to make it better, to me just take it as is.


Attached Files
File Type: mpg sample.mpg (89.87 MB, 2 downloads)
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  #19  
01-11-2017, 06:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deter View Post
Your level of perfectionism is OCD
My OCD with Video Tapes is picture tearing and rips, that drives me crazy, so I fix that.
My video pet peeve includes:
- deinterlace jaggies
- chroma noise
- audio hiss/buzzing
- tearing
- wrong aspect ratio for display
- cropping to "fill the screen"
- macroblocks
- overly aggressive temporal filtering

Some call that OCD. I call it not insulting my eyes/ears with crap.

BTW: If the video is 720/704x480, as 4x3 but 16x9 content, it probably came from a DVD recorder. Many do the wrong DAR. This is a simple fix in ReStream. Just change the flag to 16x9, and all is well.

But the videos attached to this thread have been improperly resized. The video is destroyed, and unsalvageable now. I don't of anything that could truly fix that.

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  #20  
01-11-2017, 06:45 AM
sanlyn sanlyn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lordsmurf View Post
My video pet peeve includes:
- deinterlace jaggies
These TV posts were corrupted during broadcast. I saw a lot of it yesterday on both ESPN channels. Really ugly. They are interlaced but you'll notice there's no combing. AFAIK quick and dirty Supersampling at some point in the broadcast stream to get HD from a smaller original during broadcast. No fix for that.
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