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  #21  
03-06-2017, 04:21 AM
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lordsmurf lordsmurf is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laserer View Post
So far the VHS tapes I am capturing are in great condition. I can clearly see the benefit of the DNR/TBC from the JVC deck and the TBC-100 but beyond that I am not sure what else I can or should do to improve the quality.
Sometimes you hit a quality ceiling. I need to look at your samples...

... and done. You mostly have some loss from the camera, which can't be fixed. A proc amp could help, but this is probably a compilation/multiuse tape, meaning the values probably change every 15 minutes. I never mess with footage like that, unless isolating a specific clip for a specific purpose.

A detailer may help as well. The sharpness loss is correctable in analog domain.

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Originally Posted by sanlyn View Post
VHS captures always need extra work
Oh, I don't know. Sometimes you hit diminishing returns, where attempts to further fix it being to degrade it. I find that to especially be true with my own SP recordings in the JVC deck to JVC recorder (which corrects chroma noise, and mild grain, leaving almost zero flaws). The JVC files could be further "fixed", but it would be a nitcpick.

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  #22  
03-12-2017, 01:47 PM
Laserer Laserer is offline
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Thanks once again for the great help and advice!

I am continuing to deal with preliminary setup issues. I can open a simple Avisynth script (Version, Stacking video...) in Vdub with no problem. I have downloaded QTGMC and the required plugins and installed per the instructions contained therein. When I attempt to open the scripts that you have provided (thank you) I get a Vdub error: "Avisynth open failure: LoadPlugin: unable to load C:\Program Files (x86)\AviSynth\plugins\RemoveGrainSSE2.dll, Module not found. Install missing library?" This is a call from QTGMC line 393 so I am inside that function.

I know that I have this dll in my "C:\Program Files (x86)\AviSynth\plugins" directory. Do I need to have some kind of LoadPlugin statement in my script or a "Path" statement somewhere?
Kinda stalled out on this.

BTW My XP machine really does have a really old AMD Athlon XP 3200+ processor that only uses SSE instructions. The problem I describe above is the same on my Windows 10 machine as well though.
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  #23  
03-12-2017, 06:12 PM
sanlyn sanlyn is offline
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There are a couple of things you can try (although I find it curious that your Windows 10 OS gives the same error). Attached are the non-SEE versions of RemoveGrain and associated dll's. Download the .zip file into itsown folder, unzip, and copy the dll's into your plugins folder. These are non-AVS-26 filters, by the way, for Avisynth 2.5 ()I'm using them with Avisynth 2.6). They should still work, but if they don't you can download and install the newer RGTools here: http://avisynth.nl/index.php/RgTools. You can have the RemoveGrain and the newer RGTools.dll in your plugins at the same time. Note on the RGTools download page that the package requires MSVC++ runtime for 2015, with a link for the installer.

If you still have a problem, it's likely related to MSVC runtime files. Microsoft has versions of these from 2010 on. Normally they come installed with SvcPak updates for XP, but if you're using SVCPak2 you might not have them. I don't agree with this preference for SVCPak2. Many filters require MSVC support files that won't install in SvcPack2.

Let us know how these fixes go.


Attached Files
File Type: zip v1_dot_0_NoSSE.zip (21.1 KB, 1 downloads)
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  #24  
03-12-2017, 07:03 PM
Laserer Laserer is offline
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Runtime packages helped thanks.

vInverse2()?
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  #25  
03-12-2017, 09:13 PM
sanlyn sanlyn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laserer View Post
vInverse2()?
Vinverse and vInverss2 are functions in the latest version of vInverse.dll. They have very simialr effects. I thought vInverse2 looked a little smoother than vInverse in this case. Both are masking/blurring/overlay functions normally used to reduce visible remnants of excessive combing artifacts, especially from home cameras with their sloppy interlacing.

http://avisynth.nl/index.php/Vinverse
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  #26  
03-13-2017, 07:55 AM
sanlyn sanlyn is offline
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Ooops, in my rush the other day I forgot to include some notes on the VirtualDub filters I used for the posted
Sample2_Tweak.mpg in post #13 (For VHS to DVD, mask (crop) before other restore filters?). I posted the .avs script but forgot the VirtualDub filter settings.


VirtualDub filter settings can be saved in a .vcf file. To save the settings, click "File..." -> "Save processing settings", give the file a name and location, and click ":save" or OK. To load the .vcf and exactly the filter settings used, click "File..." -> "Load processing settings", and navigate to the .vcf file location. Note that loading a .vcf file will overwrite any VDub filters you've already loaded. A .vcf is a simple text file that you can open in Notepad for a look. It can be edited, but you'd better know know what you're doing. Save the original copy if you try making any changes. With the filters loaded you can open the filters dialog and see the settings.

The .vcf file I used is attached as Sample2_tweak.vcf. You must have the .vdf filters installed in your VirtualDub plugins. The three filters were:
- temporal smoother (no problem -- it's a VirtualDub built-in filter, so you already have it)
- ColorMill 2.1 (download here: http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/atta...colormill21zip)
- Gradation Curves 1.45 (.zip'd .vdf filter and html attached)

Some time ago in an earlier post I wrote up a brief tutorial with graphics on how to use some of the filters. The filters covered in the post were CamcorderColorDenoise (aka "CCD"), Levels, ColorMill, and Gradation Curves (aka "curves", similar to Photoshop Pro and others). The post is here: Encoding from Huffyuv?.

To apply the filters on the output of an .avs script while the script runs, you must have "Video" set to "full processing mode". This mode automatically uses RGB and by default saves the output as uncompressed RGB. You can save the output file in your preferred colorspace and compressor by setting "color depth..." and "Compression" to your preference. I saved the output as YV12 with Lagarith compression. Note that huffyuv can't compress YV12. So if you want the popular lossless Lagarith codec you can get it here: https://lags.leetcode.net/codec.html.

Lagarith makes slightly smaller lossless files than huffyuv. It can also be used for capture, but it does eat up more CPU than huffyuv, so I use huffyuv for capture but I usually use Lagarith for lossless intermediate working files.

Good work on getting those Avisynth plugins. If you have any problems, just ask.


Attached Files
File Type: vcf Sample2_tweak.vcf (3.6 KB, 3 downloads)
File Type: zip Gradation Curves.zip (99.1 KB, 25 downloads)

Last edited by sanlyn; 03-13-2017 at 08:07 AM.
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  #27  
03-13-2017, 11:18 AM
koberulz koberulz is offline
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Probably better here than bumping that other thread: when using ColorTools, do you check '16-235', or '0-255'? I read the help page and I think I'm more confused by it now than I was before.
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  #28  
03-13-2017, 12:07 PM
sanlyn sanlyn is offline
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ColorTools always reads 0-255. Checking 16-235 is info only, it puts markers at 16 and 235. Remember that YUV input is being expanded from 16-235 to 0-255 in RGB. The setting is used lower in the dialog box where you enable setting hot pixels to black (always use IRE 100, which in RGB is 255 on TV) -- but I don't think I've used that hot pixel display for years. You can tell when luma or chroma is "hot" anyway when the horizontal bars collide against the sides of the histogram.
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  #29  
03-13-2017, 12:23 PM
koberulz koberulz is offline
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The markers are there regardless of which is checked, and changing it alters the shape of the luma histogram and waveform monitor.
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  #30  
03-13-2017, 01:13 PM
sanlyn sanlyn is offline
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Yes, that's correct. I should have clarified: The 16-235/0-255 and the iRE settings at the bottom refer to turning "hot" pixelks black, depending on which range you want to check. It has no effect on the markers. I forget that those markers are always there because I'm using 0-255 all the time anyway. I haven't used the "hot pixels" feature in years.
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  #31  
04-09-2017, 05:13 PM
Laserer Laserer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sanlyn View Post
Ooops, in my rush the other day I forgot to include some notes on the VirtualDub filters I used for the posted
Sample2_Tweak.mpg in post #13 (For VHS to DVD, mask (crop) before other restore filters?). I posted the .avs script but forgot the VirtualDub filter settings.


VirtualDub filter settings can be saved in a .vcf file. To save the settings, click "File..." -> "Save processing settings", give the file a name and location, and click ":save" or OK. To load the .vcf and exactly the filter settings used, click "File..." -> "Load processing settings", and navigate to the .vcf file location. Note that loading a .vcf file will overwrite any VDub filters you've already loaded. A .vcf is a simple text file that you can open in Notepad for a look. It can be edited, but you'd better know know what you're doing. Save the original copy if you try making any changes. With the filters loaded you can open the filters dialog and see the settings.

The .vcf file I used is attached as Sample2_tweak.vcf. You must have the .vdf filters installed in your VirtualDub plugins. The three filters were:
- temporal smoother (no problem -- it's a VirtualDub built-in filter, so you already have it)
- ColorMill 2.1 (download here: http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/atta...colormill21zip)
- Gradation Curves 1.45 (.zip'd .vdf filter and html attached)

Some time ago in an earlier post I wrote up a brief tutorial with graphics on how to use some of the filters. The filters covered in the post were CamcorderColorDenoise (aka "CCD"), Levels, ColorMill, and Gradation Curves (aka "curves", similar to Photoshop Pro and others). The post is here: Encoding from Huffyuv?.

To apply the filters on the output of an .avs script while the script runs, you must have "Video" set to "full processing mode". This mode automatically uses RGB and by default saves the output as uncompressed RGB. You can save the output file in your preferred colorspace and compressor by setting "color depth..." and "Compression" to your preference. I saved the output as YV12 with Lagarith compression. Note that huffyuv can't compress YV12. So if you want the popular lossless Lagarith codec you can get it here: https://lags.leetcode.net/codec.html.

Lagarith makes slightly smaller lossless files than huffyuv. It can also be used for capture, but it does eat up more CPU than huffyuv, so I use huffyuv for capture but I usually use Lagarith for lossless intermediate working files.

Good work on getting those Avisynth plugins. If you have any problems, just ask.
Thank you for the follow up. I now have Avisynth working on two machines. My old XP that I use for captures requires some of the older filters etc in order to get things to run. My newer computer works much better and runs all of the newer stuff so I guess I will mainly use my XP machine for capture. It works fine for that.

I have a tape that is SLP and is most certainly a copy. It is the worst I have to work with I think. I am curious what can be done to improve the quality of this recording if anything. I have attached two files just for grins: one is played/captured with a JVC sr-v10U and the other with a Panasonic ag-1980.

I am more interested in the restoration process/filters but curious if the two decks make any difference.

I feel like I am asking a lot but if you can help me with this it will be greatly appreciated.


Attached Files
File Type: avi Caberet Concert JVC sr-v10U SLP.avi (95.54 MB, 17 downloads)
File Type: avi Caberet Concert AG-1980 SLP.avi (81.46 MB, 11 downloads)
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  #32  
04-09-2017, 07:56 PM
sanlyn sanlyn is offline
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Thanks for the samples. There are obvious differences between the two.

I'd prefer to work with the AG1980 sample. Its play of the tape is a more honest performance with visually less noise, less distortion, and less highlight burnout than the JVC sample. One problem with the JVC version that you likely won't be able to fix without massive detail destruction are the blackish vertical lines and comets that spark off the edges of bright objects. The effect is known as "bearding" and is usually due to video heads in poor shape. The AG1980 has better noise reduction, but I doubt that even that would be good enough to clean bearding artifacts if they exist on the tape itself, so I'd say the JVC's heads are the problem..

The JVC has more obvious oversharpening artifacts, less stability in thin edges, and brighter and sharper edge halos than the AG1980. Both samples have levels problems, notably with the JVC pumping contrast beyond legal values. The JVC version looks oversharpened and rather "etched'. The AG1980 version has legal levels but black levels are a bit high and make the image look a little washed out. Lowering black levels will fix that. The JVC version requires a considerable reduction in contrast and a lowering of the resulting black levels to avoid most of the artificially enhanced appearance. But sadly the JVC is also stuck with the annoying edge noise mentioned.

Both samples have their faults and virtues. I feel that the AG1980 has fewer problems.

Of course, a lot depends on the tapes and how they play nice (or not) with a particular player. This is why most advanced members here maintain more than one VCR (I have 4). I'd try cleaning the heads on the JVC to see if comets and bearding can be prevented.
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  #33  
04-09-2017, 08:50 PM
Laserer Laserer is offline
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Thank you for taking the time to analyze these samples. I am not sure I knew how to use Vdub histogram to set the levels for the JVC capture including cropping before doing so. The AG-1980 I tried to set the levels at least nominally.

This is an SLP recording. Is it possible that the difference between the two samples is the deck performance for the slow speed of the tapes (or the level set?)? Note that the JVC is the same deck that was used to capture the samples in the early part of this thread ( again I am extremely grateful for your help and guidance for processing these).

I am most interested in using the Ag-1980 going forward. What would prescribe to improve the quality of that sample?
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  #34  
04-09-2017, 09:24 PM
sanlyn sanlyn is offline
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The VDub capture histogram and pictures of what it looks like appear in post #3 of the later VirtualDub capture settings guide (Capturing with VirtualDub [Settings Guide]). A pictures and notes on the levels dialog and the crop window are in post #4 (Capturing with VirtualDub [Settings Guide]).

A tape will usually require different level settings when played in a different VCR. Different tapes played in the same VCR will usually require different levels settings. The same tape usually will not play exactly the same way in different VCRs.
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  #35  
04-09-2017, 09:51 PM
Laserer Laserer is offline
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Yes. Excellent guides. Thanks.
I usually adjust levels for each tape also.
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