SR-MV45/MV55 suitablity for EP lossless capture?

[jwillis84]

The Buyer's Guide is now almost indelibly imprinted on the back of my retina.

So when a JVC SR-MV55 and SR-MV45 crossed my eye, I picked them up.

I know dual decks are not generally regarded as long term keepers (complexity tends to lead to long term maintenance problems) but the twins are mine now.

Does anyone have any experience or opinions with these models regarding maintenance or upkeep?

They are "tuner-less" so I believe they will run cooler than many of the later models. The fans are a lot smaller than later JVC models.

My plans were, to keep them on hand to "try" as alternates to my regular vcrs for EP tapes. I do not plan to use the direct to MPEG-2 Dub to DVD features.

I am concerned about sourcing common parts that fail, and finding a suitable vet to help with their care.

Any general comments are appreciated.

Any proactive warnings and advice, doubly so..

-- merged --

Oh wow, oh my head.

I finally figured out how to search for more info on the MV45 and MV55 in the forums and got a firehose of information.

Seems this was quite the topic about 10-12 years ago.

I'm not sure I would have touched them had I properly done my research.

Summary - these models were good on the VHS side, poor or tended to die on the DVD side. They were prone to Capacitor problems, or design problems, that led to a lot of DOA issues brand new from the JVC factory (or soon to be DOA issues). User self-repair wasn't a popular or very successful prospect. (While they worked, if they did at all.. they were great.. but seemed inevitably terminal in design in the end.) That's my assessment from what I've read.. which might be overly pessimistic.. but I'm not as hopeful any longer. And to make matters worse, it seems they cost so much it encouraged a lot of spurious futile attempts at repairs by end users. Whats handed around today are probably left overs in a nice corpse.

Lordsmurf seemed to spearhead a valiant attempt at supporting them, and organizing a hopeful watch.. but most people seemed to give up in a fit of rage. I'd be very interested in where he ended up.

.. feels like going to a wake

-- merged --

I keep tripping across more and more history. So the Loading issue might have been an overheated set of resistors, and or a problem with the media inserted, DVD-RW or DVD-R and this site has excellent guides on the best media type to use and avoid.

I don't know when I'll find the end of this story but LS said keeping the power pure and the power saving mode on instead of power saving mode off might help with longevity.

I guess in the end the RM-SSR005U remote and the jig remote PTU94023B might be worth more than the units themselves. But perhaps I'll keep them around and just keep lurking for crumbs of information.

[lordsmurf]

I have a pair of these myself, and they're really no different from a SR-V10U + DR-M10/100. The only major issue is that you cannot insert a full-frame TBC between the VCR and DVD recorder, so the direct VCR>DVD may fail on non-perfect tapes and most retail tapes.

So in that regard, yes, great VCR for anything, including VirtualDub/lossless workflow. And the SR-V10 is one of the better JVCs.

As far as EP, JVC has never been overly EP-cooperative. You already have the best of the EP playback, the SR-VS30, and then dynamic drum 9600/9800/9900. If anything JVC will play EP, those are it. But in general, when you have lots of EP, you need to Panasonic AG-1980, and in refurb condition.

The DVD side didn't really "die", and was not poor. The LSI Logic chipset made it quite nice, and the only problem was caps due to the Chinese espionage/fakes issue. Replace those if/when needed, and it will hum along once more. JVC's design was almost perfect, save for JVC getting hosed by counterfeit capacitors. The only thing to make it better would have been user-adjustable IRE/bright/gamma; almost every DVD recorder, aside from RCA Zorans, has some offset.

Video requires patience.
Too many people are impatience, whine/complain/gripe/cry, and give up. JVC recorders were hit hard by that.

JVC has no media issue. Media has a media issue.
JVC just has Chinese caps, and if/when they go, just replace with Japanese caps. Easy enough.

When not using the JVC, just keep it unplugged. That will do even better than any power save mode. Just don't do the old in-out/in-out with it (Clockwork Orange reference!), as you want to not surge/juice the caps too much. I go in spurts, few weeks plugged in on/off, then unplugged for weeks/months.

The SR-MV45/55 is like the others, in that the first 30 seconds after plugging it in are nail biters. Will it stop flashing LOADING!

[jwillis84]

Thanks for the notes LordSmurf !

I've been pouring over the years of threads, and I was still feeling lost.

I now have the AG-5710p refurbed, and (with your help) a JVC SR-VS30U

The SR-MV55U and SR-MV45U came at really low costs and I pulled the trigger before doing much research, so I was feeling a little buyer/storage space remorse. They are beautiful machines to look at though.

I wish the DVD drives though were more generic, like in the MV1 .. so we could source them from PC parts. I saw a video of a person who tranplanted the original OEM Drive board from an MV30 GDA-4120B into a GSA-4120B and revived that unit from LOADING errors.. encouraging.. but nail biting at the same time.. what guts.. I mean guts.. everywhere.

[jwillis84]

Really nice Tip about the Capacitors LS.

I read the Panasonic and Nichicon care and maintenance guide for their Electrolytics.

Not to be too careful, but 2 years on the shelf or in any device without power > leads to a pretty risky power up. The caps may burst or short due to natural and unavoidable degradation. The first power up its recommended (if possible) only at half voltage for 30 minutes followed by full voltage and then shutdown to shunt heat "before" actually powering up again to use the device. The precaution reminds me of the procedure for an old Lead Acid battery.

Arcade game specialist recommend always replacing all the caps in any CRT (for decades old devices) regardless before even attempting to power up since the circuit parameters will be so far off (predictably) that service manuals will no longer match the values measured.

Nichicon considers all electrolytics as "consumables" with a well known and predictable "consumption" pattern that always requires replacement. Its only in short lived consumer devices discarded within 2-3 years that the failure rate is low enough to be "thought" to be no-service required. They are sticklers for their Stats and Probability curves.

None of these devices were meant to last decades.

Surface mount caps in the Panasonic ProLine may have been a design decision to try and last longer than Electrolytics normally do, since the equipment costs so much.. I don't know for sure.

Gosh I don't know other than TGrant who I would trust with resoldering caps.. and I sure don't want to learn to resolder surface mounts. At least the JVC Electrolytics are "Big" and have "Big" leads... I may learn to tackle those.. if I can't find someone I trust to do the work... I would rather find someone with skill that I trust.

I also checked my mains voltage, it runs 127 volts, where the devices spec is 120 volts.. that can't be good... if nothing else any power supply less than 100% efficient will have to dump that extra as heat some place.. all the time its powered on. I get thats its "tolerable" but I really don't want to run on the ragged edge of risky all of the time.. something is bound to fail sooner than later. Looks like more battery powered UPSes and surge protectors are in my future.

[jwillis84]

Got the SR-MV55 and SR-MV45 twins home today.

I was expecting all kinds of problems, so I was pleasantly surprised.. and remain cautiously on guard.

The SR-MV55 face plate is a little beat up, but it is dark dark green or black and the right lighting hides slight marks. I was told its DVD drive had a disc in it and wouldn't open.. but the person telling me wasn't sure how it worked and may not have pressed the eject button. For me I patiently waited for the "Loading" boot indicator for the computer to finish and go silent, returning to a quiescent L1 - - prompt, pressed [eject] and patiently waited.. in a moment it lurched into motion and ejected the blank DVD as if it had no problem. I then powered it down to let the capacitors restrike their polarity.. I have no idea how long its been sitting on a shelf.

The ejected media (memorex DVD-R x16)(ImgBrn MID: MBI 01RG40, Disc ID: 0@P-!-00) is closest to Moser Baer out of India, which has poor firmware support according to the Media Guide, worse it appears perhaps two generations removed, so even further out of support than with what the drive could possibly recognize... that coupled with not enough patience for computers and devices from 2005-2007 might mean there really is nothing wrong with it and it might be lightly used.

The SR-MV45 had stickers on it, which I removed. Its got a somewhat familar "aftermarket" mod in the rear near the power cord. Sports casters often soldered wires from the front face panel to the LED sensor on the front to a PS/2 connector in the back, then drilled a 1/4" hole in the back panel near the power cord to provide access. It makes me sad. I would have prefered this beautiful piece of machinery to remain unmodified. Its also kind of redundant since the [Remote In] two wire port on the right side at the back was essentially for the same thing.. JVC just didn't document the fact well at all.. and people redid the whole thing for naught. I think it was all for gaining a wired remote feature.. which it already had. That.. or extending the IR sensor to an additional one where the IR remote was going to be used.

.. anyway

The SR-MV45 also powered up with the "Loading" boot prompt and then went quiescent with "L1- -" I checked its eject tray, which was empty and powered it down to let the capacitors restrike.

Taking it very slow.. I will pull the power cords from the regulated 120 volt APC Line-R in about 30 minutes and repeat the procedure tomorrow.

All in All.. rather hopeful really.

I'm just trying to go very slow in all aspects, learning.. making mistakes.. and trying not to make mistakes worse by rushing. Learning about this capacitor thing, learning about the MV1 and capacitor and resistor problems.. learning to condition the power and take care of things. It takes time.

SR-MV55+MV45.jpg

Gosh these machines are fun to look at.. slim, capable.. the top of the line.. until everything went streaming.

[jwillis84]

Reading LordSmurf's adventures in Panny vs JVC land is like binge watching a TV Series, its entertaining, informative, has hero's and villans, trolls orcs and all the rest.. okay more like Game of Thrones.

I do tend to believe him much more than the snipers however, and he is very thorough and consistent.

Warning: Please take the following with a Huge Dose of Soap.. I have not physically verified any of this, and its based mostly on Press Releases and my assumptions and round-about self conclusions.

Last night I spent a lot of time researching the [Remote In] port, I sort of knew things.. but learned much more. The Schematic diagrams from the MV1 through the DVM models consistently reveal this to be a 3.3volt TTL serial port, which is used bi-directionally or unidirectionally based on the firmware of the model using it. Its been used pretty much unmodified for a long time with a Tip and Sleeve connector that is normally closed circuit with a Sharp IR receiver on the front panel to demodulate the 38 kHz IR signal from remotes and get digital JVC control codes into the central processor, note: (Not JLIP protocol - that was the early 90's challenger to IEEE1324/Firewire). The remote control codes are well published. - That is mostly the "Input-direction" on this TTL serial port. Simultaneously "Output-direction" it can be used for Cable Box/Satellite Box remote control, or Broadcast System Remote Link, CompuAV and other signals. - in the MV1 through MV55 series it appears they finally just declared it the "Extended Serial Remote Terminal" port and documented that no compatible remote extension device was currently available to properly take advantage of its capabilities.. which in an FAQ they said covered all the IR codes and with the same protocol. That would be consistent with breaking the normally closed Tip and Sleeve with a 3.5 mm jack and looping in a serial device that sent equivalent demodulated IR codes just like the Sharp IR receiver. Naturally the control set would be extended for the DVD functions and the dual nature of some decks. The stated intention was to allow Third Party integration with other service vendors at some later date.

Looking at the Hitachi/LG HL-DS-ST DVD burner drive history.. Hitachi and LG partnered up and produced the GDA-4120B (all GDA are OEM models slightly tailored to a specific OEMs specs) in Korea and was adopted in the MV1 series, the hardware or firmware in the MV1 series was early days and went through some upgrades.. leading to some glitches. Manufacturing of the GDA-4100B series continued and eventually moved to China (which seemed interestingly to improve yield quality.. but maybe it was the MV1 firmware improving?) JVC then started or acquired PMD Magnetics and began manufacturing drives with the MV45/55 editions and those seemed to have an eventual fatal optical tracking design flaw.. (Warning: The PMD drives are "case-less" and can expose high power invisible Laser light to technicians eyes.. Be cautious! JVC put out flyers warning of the danger.) fixed by replacing drives with the older GDA-4100B series, the last to use the Hitachi/LG drives out of the factory were the MV40/50 series which seemed to please their owners. Its been reported the version of the GDA used doesn't matter after a service factory firmware fix is applied to earlier MV1/5 editions, and that sometimes more generic LG GSA drives can be used in later models to replace LG GDA drives.. but no one seems to document successes very often. A random report is EIDE Sony drives worked as well. - The problem is EIDE or Atapi burners really weren't out on the market that long before transitioning to SATA so the supply in new drives is exhausted and the supply in recycled drives is dwindling. - Its hopeful that the later firmware in the later MV40/50 and MV45/55 models doesn't really care about the precise drive model used.. since it caused a factory service problem with older MV1/5 models.. but there are no known facts.. its just a logical leap of faith. -- we could really use an IDE virtual DVD burner to ISO file "emulator" if such a thing existed and allowed modifying its reported device parameters.. but I don't know that such a thing could or would exist.

I wonder a lot about the choice of [L-1 ----] and [F-1 ----] to represent the Rear Input and Front Input connectors.

For one thing the [L-1 ----] could easily be mistaken for a "variant" of the [Loading ...] boot message from the CPU and be misreported by impatient users as a "permenant" failure. Some documents even say "Wait for the Hello message" before pressing buttons.. which only briefly flashes and then is replaced by the enigmatic [L-1 ----] message.

The iconography, user documents and manuals are pseudo inscrutable at times, minimalistic.. and somewhat difficult to interpret.. especially procedurally. I can't help wondering if better documentation could have made the products more popular and easier to use.

[lordsmurf]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jwillis84

its based mostly on Press Releases

That's never a good thing.

If releases were to be trusted (at least in the video hardware world), then converting a tape is easy, magically looks like HD with their fairy-dust device, and costs less than cheap. Everything has a TBC, video errors do not exist, and video is so portable that it transmits itself to another device before you even know you wanted it there.

Press releases in this industry are often complete bullsh!t divorced from reality.

Anytime you read anything in a press release, verify independently. Odds are good that the PR dept had zero knowledge of the item, didn't even try to learn about it, and took what engineering said out of context.

When dealing with a company like LG, that's mostly about computer hardware, and not video -- and realizing there's simply no correlation between digital video and computers, aside from the fact that computers are needed to run it -- be skeptical. Too many still assume "if it's on a computer, I know it", Reminds me of Sheldon from Big Bang Theory, where he claims he knows about everything in the universe because he studies physics (Penny: "Then what's Radiohead?"; Sheldon "Uhhh..")

Recognize this.

[judicata]

Could I ask what year your SR-MV45 and SR-MV55 were manufactured? I know that for some other JVC DVD recorders the year of manufacture matters. These two units seem to be of newer vintage -- I don't know if that raises a concern about the model of LSI chipset, or implementation of the chipset.

Thanks!