09-13-2014, 08:20 PM
|
|
Free Member
|
|
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 585
Thanked 72 Times in 65 Posts
|
|
To my eyes, MPEG-2 seems to retain detail better than H.264 when copying SD DVDs even at equivalent bit rates. Since MPEG-4 is a precursor to H.264, will it retail greater detail, albeit at a higher bit rate?
|
Someday, 12:01 PM
|
|
Ads / Sponsors
|
|
Join Date: ∞
Posts: 42
Thanks: ∞
Thanked 42 Times in 42 Posts
|
|
|
09-13-2014, 11:37 PM
|
|
Site Staff | Web Hosting, Photo
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 4,311
Thanked 374 Times in 341 Posts
|
|
Correct.
H.264 has an internal softening filter that is on by default. This is to help it with lower artifacts, from lower bandwidth/bitrate, but sometimes the outcomes are what you have observed. So the idea that H.264 is "better" is a myth -- it's just different. It's the main reason we only use MPEG-2 for our VHS conversion projects to Blu-ray. The minor artifacts are better than the wholesale softening that can occur.
I think the filter can by disabled, but there's still other nuisances in H.264 that do not exist in MPEG-2. That makes a KISS workflow needlessly complex.
To end users, MPEG-4 is mostly just a container. (Remember that MPEG-2 is a container AND a format/codec.) But MPEG-4 is also sort of like a toolkit for creating codecs or formats. Unlike MPEG-2, MPEG-4 is not format itself.
It's complicated.
MPEG-4:
- MP4 as AVC/H.264 = MPEG-4 part 10
- AVI as Divx/Xvid = MPEG-4 part 2
- Did my advice help you? Then become a Premium Member and support this site. - Please Like Us on Facebook | Follow Us on Twitter
- Need a good web host? Ask me for help! Get the shared, VPS, semi-dedicated, cloud, or reseller you need.
|
09-13-2014, 11:39 PM
|
|
Free Member
|
|
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 585
Thanked 72 Times in 65 Posts
|
|
I meant MPEG-4 part 2 (think Divx), commonly referred to as MPEG-4
|
09-13-2014, 11:46 PM
|
|
Site Staff | Web Hosting, Photo
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 4,311
Thanked 374 Times in 341 Posts
|
|
Divx (or open source Xvid) just isn't as good as MPEG-2. It valued size over quality. It was replaced by H.264 by almost everybody, from the hobby users to the equipment manufacturers.
So again, what you see is not surprising.
- Did my advice help you? Then become a Premium Member and support this site. - Please Like Us on Facebook | Follow Us on Twitter
- Need a good web host? Ask me for help! Get the shared, VPS, semi-dedicated, cloud, or reseller you need.
|
09-13-2014, 11:48 PM
|
|
Free Member
|
|
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 585
Thanked 72 Times in 65 Posts
|
|
so to choose the better of two options, will Divx retain detail more like MPEG-2 or is it worse than H.264 in that sense?
|
09-13-2014, 11:51 PM
|
|
Site Staff | Web Hosting, Photo
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 4,311
Thanked 374 Times in 341 Posts
|
|
Xvid/Divx will retain more noise, as it's really a mix of MPEG-2 and H.264. It's an earlier era of video compression from 10+ years ago.
H.264 will blur if not given enough bitrate.
- Did my advice help you? Then become a Premium Member and support this site. - Please Like Us on Facebook | Follow Us on Twitter
- Need a good web host? Ask me for help! Get the shared, VPS, semi-dedicated, cloud, or reseller you need.
|
09-14-2014, 12:15 PM
|
|
Free Member
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Posts: 1,323
Thanked 334 Times in 276 Posts
|
|
What do you mean by "copying" DVDs? You're compressing a retail movie down to a smaller size using both MPEG-2 and H.264?
|
09-14-2014, 08:14 PM
|
|
Premium Member
|
|
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,155
Thanked 357 Times in 293 Posts
|
|
MPEG-4 Part 2 is a different compression algorithm from MPEG-4 Part 10 (H.264). The H.264 standard is newer, having come out in 2003 vs. 1999. Really the only thing they share is the name "MPEG-4", they are completely different video compression formats. Part 2 is the original video codec developed for the standard, while Part 10/AVC was jointly developed by ITU and MPEG and later added to the MPEG-4 family of codecs. If you have a fast machine, encode with H.264. Support is universal now, and the codecs are mature. Much better compression can be achieved over the old Part 2 codec while retaining the same quality.
Also to clear things up, MPEG-4 Part 2 video can be in a MP4 container (defined in MPEG-4 Part 14). It wasn't really intended for use in AVI containers. That was popularized by DivX, which was originally a hacked codec to allow Microsoft's old MPEG-4 encoder to store video in containers besides the proprietary ASF format (AVI doesn't officially support features required by the MPEG-4 codec). MP4 didn't come until 2003. Before that, MPEG-4 Part 2 video was mostly distributed in Quicktime MOV and Microsoft ASF containers.
|
09-15-2014, 09:53 AM
|
|
Free Member
|
|
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 585
Thanked 72 Times in 65 Posts
|
|
Quote:
What do you mean by "copying" DVDs? You're compressing a retail movie down to a smaller size using both MPEG-2 and H.264?
|
Quote:
Much better compression can be achieved over the old Part 2 codec while retaining the same quality.
|
I see this very evidently with H.264 Blu-Rays, and the codec does an awesome job with HD material. To my eyes, perhaps due to converting the already compressed MPEG-2 stream, the psychovisiual settings seem to noticeably soften image detail and result in a bit of banding at times and blur edges. I have played with H.264 settings in Handbrake and TMPG and haven't found the sweet spot yet.
No question its a great codec, but for SD, my eyes tell me MPEG-2 has better PQ at high bit rates than H.264 with identical bit rates. Maybe my settings are off, but since part 2 is closer to MPEG-2, I was thinking PQ might be better, but using the MPEG-4 part 2 encoder in Handbrake, I was not satisfied at all. I am probably sticking to x264 for now.
|
All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:54 AM
|