Quantcast Digitalize VHS and miniDV, VCR and TBC to use? - Page 2 - digitalFAQ Forum
Go Back    Forum > Digital Video > Video Project Help > Project Planning, Workflows

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #21  
02-14-2020, 11:43 AM
lordsmurf's Avatar
lordsmurf lordsmurf is offline
Site Staff | Video
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 8,890
Thanked 1,485 Times in 1,298 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bogilein View Post
Before you think about the tbc you should decide which vcr & which capture card you will buy.
The advice what kind of tbc you have to use depends on your tapes. Often the ES-10 is overkill for most tapes.

Many of us have more that one vcr, tbc, capture card because not every tape works well with every hardware. You can read here what some of us have collect and use to capture.

How many VCR decks do you have for capture?

Possible capture workflows:
SVHS (with TBC)-external TBC-Capture Card
SVHS-DVDRecorder (Passthrough)-(external TBC)-Capture Card
SVHS (with or without TBC)-(DVD Recorder passthrough)-Canopus NX
I'd expand on this"

VCR > TBC > capture card
is the standard workflow, and will do almost all tapes without issue

VCR (TBC off) > ES10 > TBC > capture card
is an as-needed workflow, generally the standard workflow with ES10 inserted when needed

VCR (TBC off) > ES10 / DVK > capture card
is a budget workflow, trying to cut costs on buying the actual TBC.
And again, for some projects, this is fine. I've built workflows like this for others, fits within their tihgt budget, and they get great performance from it. But I find most users opt for the true TBC, when available. There have been dark times when no TBC can be located, and it's this or nothing.

I probably own more VCRs, TBCs, and capture cards than anybody at this site. Yet I find myself using the same few items, standard VCR>TBC>card workflow, almost all the time. Lots of gear literally sites and collects dust for months at a time, until needed.

- Did my advice help you? Then become a Premium Member and support this site.
- Find television shows, cartoons, DVDs and Blu-ray releases at the TVPast forums.
Reply With Quote
Someday, 12:01 PM
admin's Avatar
Ads / Sponsors
 
Join Date: ∞
Posts: 42
Thanks: ∞
Thanked 42 Times in 42 Posts
  #22  
02-14-2020, 11:53 AM
cbehr91 cbehr91 is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 48
Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts
EDIT: Both LS and I were typing our replies at the same time. He's the expert, I'm not. If my explanations are pure poppycock/redundant, please delete this post.

DVK = DataVideo DVK-100, a chroma keyer box that when inserted into your video chain between an ES10/15 and your capture device can make a passable TBC (line and frame - you need both in almost all cases).

A proc amp (shorthand for processing amplifier) in simplest terms is a device that in realtime can alter, change, or clean video signals, usually to a set standard. Many frame TBCs have an onboard proc amp, but they're not recommended as the only method for cleaning and restoration.

4:2:0 = the type of chroma subsampling used by PAL DV, terrestrial broadcasts in the United States, and I'm sure in other parts of the world too. It's not recommended for analog video capture, 4:2:2 is.

Don't make DVDs of your tapes with the ES10. It was meant as an "off-air" DVD recorder, a sort of drop-in replacement for taping TV programs with a VCR. It isn't meant to digitize tapes. One of its unintended uses was for a very specialized cleaning of certain video signals (see paragraph after next).

If you capture to lossless AVI you can do simple cuts and edits (such as cutting out commercials) in VirtualDub without re-encoding the video then make DVDs later using your computer.

Correct, that DVS2U has a line TBC. In addition you still need a frame TBC. In the same signal chain both kinds of TBC (line first, then frame) correct different types of errors that are present in VHS tapes and the signal from the VCR. The ES10/15 is preferred for a very specialized type of cleaning of rips, wiggles, and tears at the top of the screen (the technical term is tearing). It's not really a line TBC, but exhibits some qualities of one (I may be still messing up the explanation), hence describing it as TBC(ish) or TBC-like. It also needs a completely uncorrected signal on the input side.

If you'll be using the DVS2 to play your tapes an ES10/15 won't be needed unless you have tapes that exhibit tearing.
Reply With Quote
The following users thank cbehr91 for this useful post: lordsmurf (02-14-2020)
  #23  
02-14-2020, 12:05 PM
lordsmurf's Avatar
lordsmurf lordsmurf is offline
Site Staff | Video
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 8,890
Thanked 1,485 Times in 1,298 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by cbehr91 View Post
EDIT: Both LS and I were typing our replies at the same time. He's the expert, I'm not. If my explanations are pure poppycock/redundant, please delete this post.
Nope, you nailed it.
And it's never a bad thing to get two separate answers that agree.

- Did my advice help you? Then become a Premium Member and support this site.
- Find television shows, cartoons, DVDs and Blu-ray releases at the TVPast forums.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
02-14-2020, 01:39 PM
Cortez Cortez is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Posts: 10
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanks i get it now.

I thought DVK is a short name (initial, capital letters) for Data Video King or something but this is a standalone device. The DVK-100 is really this big? This is only digitalization not NASA rocket launch .

So (ES10/15 + DVK) ~ (external) TBC? (external) TBC is equals to DataVideo TBC-1000 level?

Quote:
Originally Posted by lordsmurf View Post
VCR > TBC > capture card
is the standard workflow, and will do almost all tapes without issue

VCR (TBC off) > ES10 > TBC > capture card
is an as-needed workflow, generally the standard workflow with ES10 inserted when needed
So the very minimal workflow is a VCR with the TBC on right into a capture card. In the standard workflow (first one) the standalone TBC is like a DataVideo TBC-1000? It has both line and frame TBC or something equivalent? In "as-needed workflow" i assume that ES10 has better line TBC than VCR. So if i am playing a very messy tape and the VCR's TBC cannot handle it i just turn off the VCR's TBC and insert the ES10 into the chain by plugging some cables or changing output.

Any suggestion about the capture card? I realized that this Canopus NX is also a device (inner capture card). Any other acceptable that is connected via USB maybe? The ATI AIW is good? I am affraid that these devices are not compatible with Win 10.

Also are there any exact method to verify the digitalized material? You know for experimental use. I digitalize the same footage with TBC on and off, using ES10 and not. I don't want to inspect the television with a magnifier for searching discolorations, tearings, etc. I don't have that kind of eyes, should be exhausting. I mean a software maybe. At my only digitalization so far the Adobe Premiere shows the dropped frames count. I also find the GSpot application, maybe on this site. Could be this method working to somehow compare the result of my test digitalizations?


Attached Images
File Type: jpg s-l1600.jpg (65.5 KB, 2 downloads)
Reply With Quote
  #25  
02-14-2020, 03:09 PM
hodgey hodgey is online now
Free Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Norway
Posts: 622
Thanked 144 Times in 124 Posts
For 99% of tapes your EH65 will do the job as well as the ES10. Maybe it's different for the NTSC units, but I've never had any issues with capturing directly from the ES10 (or any other DVD-recorder) to a capture card other than that they can output macrovision on copy-protected tapes (and DVDs). I don't even see how it would even be capable of outputting anything that wasn't a stable signal but YMMV. It's not like the internal TBC in VCRs, those are very limited in how much they buffer.
Reply With Quote
The following users thank hodgey for this useful post: josem84 (02-15-2020)
  #26  
02-16-2020, 09:16 AM
Cortez Cortez is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Posts: 10
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Asking about the capture card.

The VCR is ok. The DMR EH-65 is not the best so i will bid for an ES-10. It has the frame synchronizer (line TBC) if i remember. I searched for the TBC-1000, i found one on the ebay in a very good condition (open - box) with a very high price. Maybe does somebody have one for sale? Without it i can start to digitalize, maybe if i will find or get a messy tape i will search for it again. Maybe later there will be a better offer.

Only the capture card missing. I read that the Win 7 would be better for digitalize. Should i get a dedicated PC for digitalization? What configuration should it have? The capture cards mentioned on the site are ATi All-In-Wonder USB.... and the Canopus NX, etc.. The capture card should have to have some features? I assume it will convert the analog signal to digital for the computer. Does it need to make the video signal better or every other devices in the chain before the capture card should do that?

Are there any categorisation for the issues and what device can fix or at least correct?
For example:
tearing - full frame TBC (DataVideo TBC-1000)
jiggle - line TBC (Panasonic DMR ES-10)
etc.

It would be very helpful
Reply With Quote
Reply




Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
VHS-C and MiniDV capturing? ralmino Capture, Record, Transfer 8 06-24-2019 07:49 PM
Digitalize degrading 8mm tapes? SuperS Capture, Record, Transfer 11 07-31-2018 04:28 PM
Looking to digitalize VHS tapes from 1980s, need a player Jtm732 Capture, Record, Transfer 2 01-11-2018 08:26 AM
Minidv to PC recommendation eripey Project Planning, Workflows 11 12-19-2016 03:29 PM
From Sony MiniDV to final DVD ravid57 Capture, Record, Transfer 29 10-01-2004 11:15 AM

Thread Tools



 
All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:03 AM