Capture desktop specification, hardware suggestions?
 

Hi everyone,
the digitalization workflow is almost completed. The only missing part is the desktop. I have already ordered some parts:

1. ATI AIW 9000
2. Turtle Beach Santa Cruz
3. ATI Purple Box

The other basic parts are still missing (like motherboard, CPU, RAM, HDD)
Yesterday i get an old PC from my friend because she bought a new one and the old one is not needed anymore. She just removed the HDD because of the data.

The motherboard has no AGP so it will not fit because ATI AIW 9000 is AGP. There is 1 GB RAM and a CPU. If not else can i use i still have a computer case with power supply.

So i need a motherboard, CPU, RAM and HDD.

As i read the posts the preferred OS is Windows XP SP2. As far as i remember XP cannot handle more than 4 GB RAM, so i don't need more right?

The CPU should be Intel or AMD is also fine and at least 2 Core? But what type? I had Intel Core 2 Duo before, is it good? Or the AMD's dual core processor should i choose? The Quad Core processors are not suggested?

I read that the HDD should be separated physically. One for the OS and the capturing and editing programs and the other for the raw materials? What size should they have? The bigger the better? Does RPM counts? SSD will not work in this specification?

-- merged --

I made some research yesterday about the motherboards or sometimes written as "mobo". I searched the term "Asrock".

The top 5 was like:

1. Asrock 775i65G R3.0
2. Asrock 775Dual-VSTA
3. Asrock 4CoreDual-VSTA
4. Asrock ConRoe865PE
5. Asrock 4CoreDual-SATA2

Also mentioned:

1. Asrock 775VM800
2. Asrock AM2NF3-VSTA
3. Asrock ALiveDual-eSATA2
4. Asrock 775Dual-880Pro
5. Asrock 4CoreDual-SATA2 R2.0
6. Asrock P4VM800
7. Asrock K8NF3-VSTA
8. Asrock M3A UCC

More than two member's specification contained the 775i65G. I would prefer the ConRoe865PE because the only mobo that support RAM up to 4 GB DDR. I don't know 2 GB DDR2 is similar to 4 GB DDR?

All top 5 supports Core 2 Duo processors up to E6700 and X6800. More of them even beyond. All of them have AGP connector and 3-5 PCI connectors. The ConRoe865PE and 775i65G support only DDR (the ConRoe865PE up to 4 GB) and the others DDR and DDR2 maximum 2 GB. All of them have 2 SATA connector, the last one SATAII.

There are mentioned an eSata Expansion Kit to get 2 more SATA connector used one PCI. The build should have two SATA HDD - one for OS and one for capture - but we also need an optical drive to burn the materials to DVD. Can it work over IDE ? Or it will be too slow ?

I searched them on second hand sites. ConRoe865PE and 775Dual-VSTA didn't find anywhere. 4CoreDual-SATA2 are a lot on eBay. 775i65G i found more of them on eBay, also inland. But i found only one 4CoreDual-VSTA inland. I think i will buy that one. There is a big difference in price between eBay and my local second hand site. On eBay these motherboards costs about $100, but locally i can get the 4CoreDual-VSTA for $20. + shipping.

Assuming it is "good", the 4CoreDual-VSTA for $20 sounds like a great base to build upon. Pretty much any Core2 Duo or Core2 Quad will provide plenty of power to do the job. My E6700 works fine on my 775Dual-VSTA but then even my 3.06 Ghz P4 works fine too for capture with a 32MB Rage 100 AIW. 2GB ram is the recommended amount and is the max most of these boards can use anyway. Either DDR or DDR2 will work, 2 x 1GB sticks of either, NOT both. You can't mix DDR and DDR2. The 4CoreDual-VSTA has 4 memory slots 2 for DDR and 2 for DDR2. You use one set or the other, not both. DDR2 will be slightly faster but DDR will be fine.

Condition, price and availability will probably drive your choice of CPU and ram, but it should all be quite cheap. I stuck with the E6700 in part because it is a 65W unit and the faster ones were either more money or more power or both. Read up on the supported CPU's for your board here (or whatever) to understand the wide array of CPU options you will have. You'll also need a heatsink for the CPU capable of handling whatever CPU you get. Then go hunting for a CPU. Same thing but simpler for the ram.

You may want to find an IDE (parallel ATA) drive to use as the boot drive. Setting up to boot from SATA can be a bit tricky with those VIA SATA ports. I did it but needed to install a floppy just to be able to install the correct SATA drivers while installing Windows XP. I couldn't figure out a better way to do this but maybe there is. Using the IDE for boot gets around this problem. I also had an older IDE optical drive to use for my Windows install. I don't know if it would be possible to do the install from a SATA optical drive. With the right BIOS settings, it might be possible (ATAPI and/or IDE compatibility settings).

Just for reference: a passmark comparison of 3 CPU's. I believe the "single thread rating" is more important for capture than the "CPU Mark", but for your board it shouldn't be a problem to find one plenty good for the job.

BW

I told this to my friend. He thinks i lost my mind because i would like to build an old PC. He just disposed a bunch of memory modules and motherboards. He has a box full of motherboards with CPU and heatsink and memory modules. He could dig out only two motherboards with AGP on it. The others were more modern with PCIe (without AGP). He says these parts shouldn't cost a penny. He gave me those two motherboards for free. He is also affraid these parts reliability. Old circuits, capacitors that will broke soon. He doesn't understand why i need an old computer for this job. The newer ones are more powerful and he thinks for digitalization much more resources needed. I told him that the other devices making the difficult part, the corrections like TBC. The PC only has to digitalize the signal and the minimal system requirement what i would like to reach. One of his friend also making some kind of digitalization and as he described the workflow contains only a cassette player (VCR) and a powerful PC with modern digitalization card(s?) and specialized softwares to correct the video signal and synchronize it with the audio. I told him that i get the information from experts here however in my country the Canopus brand considered as the top digitalization devices. :question:

Your friend is not wrong. Building a PC with older components and using an old OS has some risks on the hardware side. But you indicated that you wanted to build a dedicated Capture PC. For capture only, Windows XP with an AIW card and Turtle Beach sound card is a tried and true option. The idea is that you capture (digitize) the video and audio and then move the digital files to a more powerful PC for further processing. The AGP AIW's are generally considered the most flexible and trouble free. PCIe AIW's are also an option and would allow the use of a newer motherboard, processor and memory. But they have their own set of issues that you need to understand (less flexible MPEG capture, more special cables needed, "offset" in the captured image, some fussiness in driver compatibility) before you choose that route. Still, for pure avi capture (no or little direct MPEG capture), the PCIe cards are a reasonable option.

Canopus and other options were discussed pretty extensively in your previous threads. There was a lot of information to absorb in those threads but in the end you seemed to want to pursue the AGP/AIW based PC option.

http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/vide...hs-minidv.html

http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/vide...dedicated.html

So what AGP motherboards did you get? Does your friend know their history? Were they still working when he took them out of service? Did you get anything else (CPU, memory, etc.).

Try to get your friend to consider it a challenge to revive and get one of his old boards back in service!
His/her help could be VERY useful... even if it has to be via texts/email, etc. for now.

Stay healthy!

BW

The motherboard is ASROCK 4CORE DUAL-VSTA. I also found more 775i65G R3 but those don't support DDRII only DDR up to 2GB both. DDR is 400 MHz and DDRII is 800 MHz so i would choose DDRII for a little bit higher performance. The AGP connector restrict the motherboard range. Those support only maximum 2 GB RAM (some 4 GB with DDR). You said that ATI AIW cooperate well with Turtle Beach. I also found 4CoreDual-SATA2 on eBay but the 4CORE DUAL-VSTA costs less ($20 against $100) also the shipping is more simple and cheaper. It has only SATA with 1.9 GB/s not 3.0 GB/s for the SATAII but i think for the capturing SATA is enough. I didn't ordered anything yet. I have a computer case with a "modern" motherboard with PCIe (without AGP) and got some motherboards with CPUs, RAMs and heatsinks. On the asrock.com in the supported CPUs there is X6800 that i didn't find anywhere so i searched and found an E6700. Also searching for 2 GB DDRII modules. I don't know that it should be dual channel (2x1GB DDRII modules) or a single. One IDE HDD for OS and one for capture via SATA. Applying the heatsink and done.

What does further processing means? Editing, cutting, using tranisitons? I would be happy if i can get the raw video files to watching on PC in the best quality that i can get. Then my mission is accomplished. I don't want to editing wedding footages :D. One or more comedy scenes i would upload to internet. Thats all. Please don't say that i made trouble for myself with these parts. The Turtle Beach is already here, the AIW card with the purple box is on its way. I followed these instructions.

For dual channel operation you need 2 x 1GB modules. See page 17 of the manual (English version anyway).

Try this search on eBay "ddr2 pc5300 1gb -(sodimm, laptop)"
Just to be sure, you probably don't want "server" memory though it might work.

I'm not, but your friend seemed to be trying to convince you that you were. :eek: :D

Further processing? That will be up to you to decide what format(s) you'll need to watch or distribute the videos as you want. That's another deep subject that I'm not really qualified to provide guidance on.

The AGP AIW does give you decent direct to MPEG options if you don't want to do much restoration or editing. Check out the various guides on the site for more info.

BW

This mean 1x AGP, 1x PCI
May want another 1x PCI for SATA/eSATA PCI card.

That's exactly it. Gut for usable parts. Case, PSU, RAM, CPU. Details matter. Pay attention to PSU rating and revision type, RAM speed, if CPU allowed on another board.

On eBay, CPUs are often less than $10, 2tb Seagate (best) HDDs under $50. I've bought a CPU for $4 and HDD for $25 in the recent past. RAM can be cheap, under $20 per stick. Motherboard are often where the cost is, under $100, sometimes less than half that, depending on model. Unlike video gear, eBay can be decent for computer hardware, though duds still happen at least 10% of the time (including the BS "tested" and "pulled from working environment" nonsense).

Not preferred. Required. There is no choice here.

Correct. Only stick in 2gb or 4gb. 1gb< is tolerable but low, 8gb+ can confuse the OS.

Use Intel only. AMDs run hot, and overly rely on budget quality VIA crap on almost all motherboards. Almost. I had used AMDs in the past, the late 2000s and early 2010s, but used the rarer/pricier Foxconn and Gigabyte motherboards. But heat was a constant problem, after I moved, in my current location. I sold those off to some members here, built myself new capture boxes. Migrating to Asrock/Intel was probably the best thing I did for my ATI AIW capture sanity. It was no fun capturing video, AC on full blast, computer fans making a wind tunnel (hard to restore audio), and still sitting in sweat-soaked clothes.

If the computer is powerful enough, you can get by with a single large drive. I've done it. But not suggested for most users. It's easy to drop frames due to OS activity. That can be mitigated by really tweaking XP to not run stuff, turning off services.

In general, smaller (even IDE) drive for OS is fine. Large 2tb for capture files.

2tb is max for XP. Use Seagates, those are quietest and best.

No, but you'll mostly see 2tb 7200rpm Seagates. A 5400rpm works perfectly on a my capture laptops.

XO cannot use SSD. There is no TRIM, the SSD will slowly fail.

There is no reason to have 4gb RAM for an ATI AIW capture system.

SATA2 is more important that probably anything else on the old board. Big speed difference on file transfers.

IDE is fine for opticals. Bigger challenge may be locating an IDE optical. But, again, eBay. So probably not too hard. However, why? Move the capture files to the new system for editing, etc, including any DVD creation needs. Though realize I was making DVDs back in 2001, using P4 1.8ghz, 100gb IDE HDD, 2x DVD-R drive. The discs still look and work fine. DVDWS2 works nicely on AIW capture systems as well.

Also meaningless for the task. RAM has almost zero effect on capturing. It simply needs to be present, with adequate amount to prevent hitting the paging file (thus cause potential dropped frames). The actual speed is meaningless.

65W is the TDP, and TDP is essentially heat output. Not exactly heat output, but essentially. I try to build systems as close to 50W TDP as possible (i3's these days), but 65W is the limit. Anything over is like my old AMD, 80-90W, and made the capture office hotter and uncomfortable.

Cooler Master Hyper 212. Don't mess with anything else, unless you want the much pricier Noctuas. I use the 212s everywhere. all capture and non-capture systems. Only the main i7-6700 uses the Noctua, and is required due to heavy editing and encoding.

DriverPacks on the XP install disc, to make new slipstreamed disc.
http://driverpacks.net/

Correct. :congrats:

He just doesn't understand video. The end. Disregard his non-expert opinions.

Nonsense. Maybe in another 10-20 years, sure, maybe. But not now. I've used lots of decades-old computers, be it an Atari, Commodore, NeXT, and others. More machines do fail over time, but equally as many still run fine. The bigger issue with "old tech not working" is bad storage.

He's using cheap crap, and will yield crap quality as a result. There is no magic workflow that will allow skipping some form of TBC. There is no "specialized" software for most cards, merely low-quality stuff like Arcsoft that comes in the box. ATI MMC is a truly specialized software made for ATI AIW hardware; but best only to use it for MPEG, and VirtualDub for lossless AVI.

Canopus was honestly more of a marketing company than hardware/software company. And it's not exists in 15+ years now. Grass Valley bought it years ago, and stopped with all the nonsense. But the nonsense lives on, all the many years later. Apparently Canopus did make a decent cards or so, but it was NOT the ADVC/DV box line, which was heavily marketed with myths and misinformation.

He's also not correct. His fearmongering is grossly overstated, to the point of being nonsense.

Exactly. :congrats:

All important.

And BTW, if one of the boards doesn't work, it does NOT validate your friend's idea of "old tech = poopy". What it truly means is that either (a) he stored components that were alerady broken long ago, even if he claims "it was fine" (because human memories suck), or (b) he stored it in lousy conditions, subjected to heat, humidity, dirt, rat feces, or whatnot. The odds of a well-stored motherboard mysteriously fizzling out is minimal and unusual.

Ha! Nice. Turn the tables. :)

It really comes down to cost and availability. I've build an ATI AIW system on that board before, for somebody else.

Asrock had later revisions that unofficially supported some CPUs with the final/EOL firmware upgrades. I use an E8400, which (at the time, 2013) was not officially supported (yet?) on the 4CoreDual board. I don't know if that ever changed. I built that 1st "current" ATI AIW system with the help of a family member, back at the height of my medical issues. He came across the info, and I was suspect, but was feeling adventurous. We did it, it worked, it still works. We replaced all systems here, replicated the recipe.

Post-capture is optional. I capture lossless on capture box, move files to eSATA drive. Put eSATA drive into MUCH more powerful i7-6700K system for restoring, editing, encoding, etc.

The friend soudns like an IT nerd that simply does not (or does not want to?) comprehend video tasks. Video isn't video games or Java programming or whatever. It's a very specialized task, and is mostly hardware-locked to the era (at least for the quality methods). I do not understand why some folks want to fight and resist the easier and best methods. I was doing video in the late 90s, then the early/mid 2000s, upgrading as I could afford, as soon as game-changer came out. But then in the late 00s and early 10s, true upgrades stopped. It turned in cheap Chinese crap downgrades, which later turned into expensive Blackmagic HD downgrades. Newer isn't better. Newer is newer. Sometimes newer sucks.

Great example: all those modern cars that come with auto shutoff. ARGH! &%$@&!!!!
Not, at all, an upgrade. Certainly not something user requested!!!

I just revisited my thread because didn't get any notification for a long time. I answered lordsmurf's comment but now it lost. I did everything just the same as before (quotes, picture in the attachment). Somebody deleted it? I am not nervous just curious what happened. Did i something wrong? No notification that telling me i violate one of the forum rule or something. I would be more careful if i know what did i wrong? Not allowed to attach picture about capture cards or did i insult somebody?

:depressed:

Nothing was removed.
Are you sure it posted?
Or are you sure it was posted in this thread, and not another?
Check your past posts from your profile page: http://www.digitalFAQ.com/forum/members/cortez.html

First i checked my profile and no clue about the post. I surely posted in this thread because clicked on your comments [Quote] button. I grouped your answers. Maybe i also edited my post after that because i left one or two words. But i remember that i could check my attached picture if i attached the right one with the right size. Doesn't matter now. Try to rewrite my comment again :congrats:

I waited with this reply because today the ATI AIW card with the purple box arrived. So all the capture cards are ready i just need to put them into a machine.

The 4CoreDual-VSTA has 2 SATAI. The OS HDD will be connect via IDE, the capture HDD via SATA and the DVD-ROM also via IDE. Maybe also SATAI. So in this conception i don't need the extension card, right?

Yes i have the computer case, comes with IDE DVD-ROM. The power supply maybe can provide enough voltage to the computer. The motherboard has no AGP, the CPU didn't see yet, maybe the RAM will be also useful. It's 1 GB surely but don't know if DDRI, DDRII or DDRIII.

Agreed but i checked the second hand site in my country. Fortunately we have also a lot of computer parts for sale here. I am sure that on eBay i can find a lot more. The price is quite the same but with shipping those costs a little more. If i could get decent parts from inland i would choose those but if i can get it only from eBay i will buy from there.

Understood. AMD processors and motherboards with AMD socket removed from the list.

Understood. No SSD only HDD. 2TB for the capture files via SATA and IDE for the OS. Do you have an estimated size of the OS HDD? For the OS and capturing programs, etc? Preferred manufacturer is Seagate.

Here lies the real question. I search through the Asrock.com's motherboards. As far i can see with LGA775 socket the only motherboard with AGP and SATAII is 4CoreDual-SATA2. Unfortunately there is no filter options to remove the motherboards with AMD sockets, without AGP and so on. This 4CoreDual-SATA2 available only from eBay, not form inland second hand site. There is only a 4CoreDual-VSTA. It has only SATAI but quite the same. The SATA speed considered as a bottleneck? It should be the faster SATAII (3.0 GB/s) instead the SATAI (1.5 GB/s). If so i have to order it from eBay for $100 instead the 4CoreDual-VSTA for $20. + shipping.

The computer case came with IDE optical drive. :congrats:

Ok so the 2 GB DDRII RAM should be fine. These motherboards don't really support 4 or more GB RAM. I just, so it would be nice if the computer runs smoothly without lagging and long loading time, etc.

He is actually an IT guy. He is working with hardwares only. He don't want to make me trouble he just want to help the best as he could. I am also dummy in computer building i prefer programming, not building them. I agree that if something is older (from one of the previous era) it doesn't consider as junk.


I don't wanna risk with CPUs if it will work with that motherboard or not. If you say so that this motherboard with this upgrades will work with that CPU i will believe you. So i will search for that CPU and motherboard because i can be sure that it will work. I want to reach the recommended system requirement, not the minimal. The best configuration that supports this workflow with AGP capture card and PCI sound card. RAM is not that important so 2 GB DDRII will be okay, using only HDDs (capture one via SATA) so only the CPU left.


My friend (the best friend actually) work as a car mechanic. He has a lot of horror stories about the newer cars. :mad4:


PS.: I thought my reply lost because i watched it only in preview. The only reasonable answer because i didn't use preview before and forgot to post it later.

I have been using SSD's for my XP Pro SP2 capture boxes for over a year without issue.

There is a ton of debate online about using SSD's with XP. I myself like using the SSD for the OS and use a 2TB Seagate for capture.

There are some caveats:

1) Get an SSD that has software that is able to be used in XP. There are not many but there are some. Those programs have TRIM schedulers built into them that you can utilize.

2) Format the drive on a Win 7 or higher machine before installing OS.

3) You may have to slipstream AHCI drivers during XP OS install. Multiple ways to accomplish this effectively. The easiest is finding a motherboard that has AHCI built in and is capable of running in IDE mode.

4) You have to setup the OS to run the SSD effeciently. Many, many links online to optimize SSD's for a particular OS.

Just giving you some options.

Thank you Sergei. It looks quite difficult to install an XP OS to an SSD. I also happy to find a motherboard that supports SATAII (4CoreDual-SATA2). I checked its specification but didn't find any clue about AHCI. I don't know if i can reach higher speed with SSD via SATAI instead HDD via SATAI, SATAII or IDE and at what cost. Maybe spend days without success and making unrecoverable damages.
Thanks for the options but it sounds like risky to me.

My :2cents: follows:

In my opinion, I would take this path. The 4CoreDual-VSTA is a good base and staying IDE for the boot drive and DVD will make it more straight forward. It sounds like it is also available. That's worth a lot. The 4CoreDual-SATA2 would be better but only at transferring files (faster), not at capturing them. SATA1 is fast enough to capture without problems. Once you have it up and working, then you could look into making it boot faster and be more responsive by changing to a SATA boot drive or even an SSD boot drive. None of this will matter while doing actual capture.

Alternatively, you could keep searching for a 4CoreDual-SATA2 until you find one.

Putting your capture 2TB HDD in an eSATA enclosure will simplify moving files to another PC for transfer or final processing and storage on something other than your capture drive.
Discussion on eSATA enclosures, etc.

Since the board is not AGP it's of no use. Hopefully, the case takes a standard full sized ATX motherboard. Most older PC's do, but some use proprietary parts. Use the case, Optical drive and maybe the PSU and maybe even the boot HDD to use as the boot drive in your "new" capture PC. Check the CPU, heatsink and memory to see if they might work on the 4CoreDual-VSTA.

I think this is a good plan. OS HDD does not need to be large. 40GB would be enough. I just checked one of mine and it is using less than 9GB with WinXP installed and working for capture. If you can, try to find an ATA/133 drive. ATA/100 will also be fine, but 133 was the fastest of the IDE HDD's.

Again, my vote is for the $20 4CoreDual-VSTA. YMMV :wink2:

Again, enlisting your IT friends help could be useful, especially if you want to try things like slipstreaming ACHI drivers to boot from a SATA drive or something. That should be right up his alley if he's a hardware guy. He'll just have to buy into your need to build an WinXP machine and go with it.

There are way too many CPU choices to pick one as the "best". You'll need to balance speed, power consumption, price and availability all the while making sure it's compatible with the motherboard. Faster is always better, but even the slowest Core 2 Duo will likely be fast enough to capture fine. Staying with 65W TDP or less is easy with Core 2 Duo but might be harder with Core 2 Quad. You'll need to go back and forth between these (and eBay or wherever)
List of Core 2 CPU's, features, power consumption, etc.
List of supported CPU's for 4CoreDual-VSTA

Among the officially supported CPU's the E6700 still looks like a sweet spot to me. If someone else can verify unofficial support of a later, faster CPU it might be worth trying. YMMV as they say.

Most of us mechanics and ex-mechanics would agree.

Been there done that. Frustrating :mad4::smack:

BW

I found both motherboards. 4CoreDual-VSTA is from inland: $20 + shipping (~$6, summarized: $30 maximum) and 4CoreDual-SATA2 from eBay: $100 + shipping (~$20, summarized: $120). It doesn't depend on the price. Does SATA2 speed worth it?

True. I forget this advantage to disconnect the drive and transfer the files to another computer. I don't know if it can work with easily removable drives. Like placing my capture HDD to a rack. I also planned to buy a HDD docker not specially for this project. It could be connect to any PC via USB 3.0. Storing my home videos and photos on an archive (backup) HDD. I could exchange the HDDs in the docker. So my devices could share the storage between television (watching movie) or capturing videos to a dedicated "capturing HDD". I don't know what would be the best solution.

The PC came without HDD but other parts maybe useful. Motherboards surely not, but maybe the PSU can be useful (450W). For me it doesn't matter if all the parts pinned on a cardboard just not stepping on it and not bothering me. In a metal PC case we don't hurt eachother.

I am on it.

Yep. The bid is just waiting for me (or for somebody else) to get it. I asked the seller and he said that he will relist the product until somebody actually buying it.

He still doesn't understand my motivations :D. Actually i am even more dummy as him in this topic. At least he build more PCs than me. It would be a big help if he could place the motherboard in the case. RAM modules and PCI cards i also placed all of my PCs before also drives.

Yes i am still waiting for a confirmation about the unofficial supported CPU for those motherboards.

What does YMMV mean? :question: "Your Mileage May Vary" :hmm:

On average, with SSD connected to SATAII, you should see read and write speeds up to 300mb/s.

That is far superior to any mechanical drives.

@Cortez: "What does YMMV mean?:question: "Your Mileage May Vary" :hmm:"
Yes. Sorry for any confusion.

I've been looking through Via and Intel chipset information to see if I could really understand what was the best choice for SATA drive compatibility and speed. It's confusing and there is probably no right answer.

What I've found MIGHT lead one to conclude that the 4CoreDual-SATA2 was worth spending more for vs. the 4CoreDual-VSTA. As others have said, the extra spped should be nice. But it might also be more compatible with later drives which is probably more important. Still the 4CoreDual-VSTA can be made to work quite adequately...

As for as I can tell, neither the 4CoreDual-VSTA or any Intel 865 based motherboard actually support SATA2. But it seems the Intel chipset is more likely to be "compatible" with later SATA standards, especially SATA3. But compatibility does not mean faster, just more likely to work reliably, but at SATA1 speed - at best (as I understand it). Of the two Via based options (4CoreDual-SATA2, and 4CoreDual-VSTA), it would seem logical to think that the later chipset in the 4CoreDual-SATA2 would be more likely to better support SATA3. But no guarantees. The reason that is important is that all new HDDs and SSDs are SATA3, supposedly backwards compatible with SATA2 and SATA1.

Here's a thread that discusses some of this.

To really understand it you'll need to read up extensively about the different chipsets (Southbridge versions, esp.) and also read lots of old posts about people complaining about not getting theoretical SATA1 speeds out of their new SATA1 drives, etc.

Maybe NJRoadfan or someone could provide more clarity.

BW

Don't worry its fine. I am not familiar with these. Still don't know the meaning behind this phrase. :rolleyes:

Makes sense.

I read this topic but not much more information. I believe that Lordsmurf built a lot of capturing system to sell but in that topic didn't mention some exact information about the motherboard type name or anything about the specification. It would be useful. Like a starting point. Using this motherboard. Ohh okay so what processors and RAMs are compatible with that. Maybe i didn't find that topic yet with that essential informations.

I don't think if i start to read that kind of descriptions i can go further. It will sound chinese to me.:screwy: Somebody's opinion would be really useful if he can specify the minimum HDD speed for capturing so we can compare it with the SATAI or SATAII speed.

Back to the SATA Expansion PCI card. How should i imagine that? A card connected to the motherboard's PCI slot and has two SATA connectors? So if i use an eSata drive to move my files to another computer i have to remove the computer case's side panel to remove the drive? Using screwdriver and other tools? In that case does it matter if i unplug the SATA cable from the Expansion card or directly from the motherboard then remove the screws? It provides two more connector to SATA drives. This is the main function?

I have some news.

I ordered the 4CoreDual-SATA2. Within only 3 days it arrived from Poland to Hungary. Very impressive. The wrapping (packaging) was professional with bubble foil and styrofoam pads. Unfortunately some pins are deformed (front panel pins) but nothing else. What i noticed that on the motherboard at the SATA connectors the text is only SATA 1 and SATA 2, not SATA II_1 and SATAII_2 as i saw on the official site pictures. The type is visible on the picture and i think it is a REV 2.0 but the SATA text is still confusing me. What is the explanation behind this? Should i test with some tools when it will work?

What is the next step? Now i can replace the motherboard in the computer case and using the 1 GB RAM module for start, later i will buy another 1 GB. Can somebody suggest me an unofficial supported CPU list to experiment with it? Starting from the top with a high end CPU ?

The detailed information about the rev. level, etc. is the small text just below the model number text: 4CoreDual-SATA2. Can't read it in your photo.

Overall it looks like it's more likely to be a SATA2 than VSTA board. I'm sure there were small differences in the exact labeling of the boards as they went through various production runs.

I can't help with "unsupported" CPU ideas. Going with something officially supported to start would be my choice but that's up to you.

I'd recommend doing some Googling and video watching on the basics of "How to build a PC". That will answer a lot of your questions on the details of building a PC. Most will be about gaming PC's and newer systems but the basics are the same. Here's a start:

https://www.intel.com/content/www/us...gaming-pc.html

Be careful regarding static electricity. Also, be sure to match the "standoffs" that support the motherboard in the case to the actual screw-holes in the motherboard. Remove any extras (if there are any) or move them to where they are needed for your motherboard. You absolutely do not want an extra standoff to short out some component on the motherboard.

Be extra careful of the "pins" of the CPU socket on the motherboard. Don't bend any... Installing the CPU
will protect the pins from then on.

It's often easier to assemble some components to the motherboard before installing it in the case, but you still need to be able to access the motherboard mounting screws as it's installed so that isn't always possible. Still, doing some "dry run" assembly outside the case could be useful just to get the "feel" for how things install. It might also help understand what order of installation will work best. For instance, sometimes you need to install the ram before the CPU heatsink, etc.

BW

The rev. level is REV. G / A 2.00

The model number text is 4CoreDual-SATA2 but they wrote just SATA next to the SATA connector. They thought that the number text contains SATA2 so don't need to mention it again. I found another board for sale on eBay and the text is the same next to the connector.

I found forum comments where people said that his 4CoreDual-SATA2 works with E8400 Core 2 Duo. I will update the bios to the newest one and give it a try.

The E8400 is a 1333mhz front side bus architecture. The max on your board I thought was 1066mhz.

Yep, i don't know how can it work. 1333 vs 1066 using only 1066 Mhz or the bios update (overclock?) will handle that.

A couple comments:

To update the bios you have to have a bootable PC (minimum of CPU, memory & display card) using a CPU that is supported by the current bios.

I bought a $6 Pentium "just in case" for my 775Dual-VSTA since the e6700 I wanted to use was not supported by the earlier bios's. Turned out I didn't need it.

Overclocking and video capture are probably not a good mix unless you really know what you're doing.
And for capture, any Core 2 duo CPU will be plenty. Any additional speed is mostly for non-capture work on that PC. Might be nice but is not necessary...

BW

All right. We are in the planning phase already just checking the possibilities. The PC is alive :congrats:. Actually i don't have to upgrade the bios because it has already the 2.2 version. According to the official site (https://www.asrock.com/MB/VIA/4CoreD...index.asp#BIOS) the 2.20 version is the latest. I bought a refurbished motherboard so they took care of the bios also. With an Intel Celeron processor (removed from the old computer) works fine but first with the 1 GB 800 Mhz CSX RAM didn't boot up. So we replaced it with a 667.

I won't overclocking (mod) the motherboard. I cannot downgrade the bios so at least it is the newest one. The fastest CPU with 1066 FSB is Intel Core 2 Duo E7600 so i will try to get that one. Lordsmurf suggested the E8400 but without any context. For what motherboard and configuration i don't know. Also need RAM and two HDDs.

I forwarded these discussion to the IT hardware friend whom we build the PC and we confirmed that we are not getting the point in digitalization. Why we need an old computer for digitalization if we can get a newer, faster one. There are also digitalization card with analog inputs nowdays. His relative doing some digitalization work also with some video capturing job like wedding filming, etc. He digitalize with a high end PC (i7, capture card, Win 7). He just connect the VCR to the capture card and start working. His workflow contains some kind of correction as he said. I also found some topics here where members mentioned high end PC. Lordsmurf using high end PC for editing also. So my friend is curious about what justifies that old PCs for digitalization. The only idea that we can come up with is the importance of the OS. The best OS for digitalization is XP SP2. So the incompatibility of the application cannot manage on newer hardwares. Newer hardwares needed only for HD? I am ok with this old PC because this costs less than the i7 processor in a newer configuration but i feel like i am not convinced but this is some kind of basic principle. "The best OS for digitalization is XP SP2, so you need a PC that suits". I can buy newer computer parts but i won't find any driver to XP. Also a lot of digitalization software work on XP.

I am a little bit confused :screwy:

Best OS for ANALOG (vhs, svhs, etc) is the XP PRO SP2. Newer hardware is not compatible with XP OS.

A separate PC for capture only (XP Pro sp2)... a newer system for editing and encoding.

I am back again for a short status report. I got the CPUs and the memories. The CPUS are E8300 (the wanted E8400 sold) and a E7600. The second one is the officially supported CPU by the motherboard but i am curious that with E8300 can also work. I have two RAM modules. The seller told me that the 4CoreDual-SATA2 supports 2 GB RAM !per slots!. So maximum 4 GB. I know that we need only 2 GB and the XP can handle up to ~3.8 GB but some extra memory can come in handy and it was two identical Kingston memory modul for a good price. Unfortunately one of the modul not working with the old Pentium Celeron processor and the working ones recognizes as 533 Mhz but i hope the processor change will fix it. Tomorrow we will working on it and build the best PC from the parts.

The only missing parts are the HDDs. I just checking the shops and i am stunned. It was quite a long ago when i bought HDD last time. I filtered for Seagates only and there are only SATAs. I won't buy any used or second hand HDDs. Despite that on that HDD will the OS and the capturing softwares. For capture drive i found a lot of new Seagate Barracuda 2 TB 7200rpm SATA3 3.5". I made some research and with MBR the XP can handle 2 TB as Lordsmurf said. But for OS drive i can only buy also this drive with different size/storage. 1 TB is cheaper than 500 GB. I am very confused. BW37 said that installing XP to SATA can be tricky but i cannot do anything else.

If you installing XP on a SATA/SSD drive, you will need to download the "SATA / RAID DRIVER" from ASROCK, use the F6 function during XP installation to instal the ASROCK SATA DRIVERS, or slipstream the ASROCK SATA DRIVERS into a custom XP install CD.

There are many websites that show you how to create a slipstreamed XP install disk.

eBay also has several IDE drives that are NEW that you can purchase.

I was going to say that the manual says the board can only support 2GB total but apparently that is not entirely correct. A little research indicates that with 2x2GB sticks you might get 3GB available, maybe more, not sure.

Here's an interesting post on the subject.

As Sergei316 is suggesting, using an IDE drive for the boot drive solves the XP installation issue. Otherwise use F6 during XP installation (or making a slipstreamed XP install disk) but I needed an actual floppy drive installed to make that work. I couldn't use a usb thumb drive or usb connected floppy.

Good progress!

BW

I use DriverPacks to slipstream, as most drivers are already in it.

However, I use quiet Seagate 120gb IDE HDDs for my Asrock builds. I mostly slipstream non-IDE/post-XP systems. Noting that I'm not really building capture systems anymore (though I have still done a few, haven't entirely quit). Those just hold the OS and capture software, handful of test video/audio clips, and nothing more.

We tested the E8300 Intel Core 2 Duo CPU in the motherboard and it surprisingly accepted the CPU and recognized it. Should i go further to E8400 or E8500, maybe should downgrade to E7600 (the latest 1066) that is officially supported by the motherboard? As my IT friend said and we experienced the DDRII era is not that relaible, predictable. Recognized 266 MHz only. With both memory modul the PC didn't start up but with exchanging the memories it somehow worked. But the only Asrock motherboard that i find with AGP is these motherboards from DDRII era. Did i mess up everything? I shouldn't build a capture PC? I just followed your instructions and i feel like failed. :depressed:

The E8300 does not seem to be supported by the motherboard you have. That CPU has a bus speed of 1333mhz. Surprised it worked. I would try the E7500 cpu.

I would check to make sure you have the ram installed in the correct memory slots on the MB and make sure the memory modules are in fact DDR400 PC3200

I checked informations and experimented some. What i realized that a motherboard can work with higher CPU and RAM frequency but it will be downgraded to the motherboard's FSB. So a 800 MHz RAM can work on 667 MHz and a 1333 MHz CPU can work on 1066 MHz but it will lower the performance.

http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/atta...1&d=1593108429

As you can see the E8300 original frequency is 2.83 GHz, but in the motherboard it is lowered to 2266 MHz because of the 1333 - 1066 MHz incompatibility. So it would be better if i choose an officially supported CPU from the list, like E7500 with 1066 MHz because its frequency is 2.93 GHz. Does it make sense or do i need make more experiments?

My question is should i choose a Quad Core processor? I know that for the capturing 2 cores - 2 threads suggested but does more performance makes any harm?

Thank you Axweltrion.

In the first place i looked for motherboards with AGP because of the AIW capture cards (and with Intel socket as well). In the second phase i filtered my list to get the most powerful motherboard. My research ended with this motherboard. Maybe there are better ones i missed. I found only this one with SATAII that is a very important parameter in digitalizing as a i learned here. A tried multiple CPU and RAM combination.
Intel Core 2 Duo E7600 has the highest frequency (3.06 GHz) with 1066 FSB that supports the motherboard. I tried multiple RAM modules (2 GB) in dual-channel and after some BIOS refresh and settings it works with both 2 GB RAM. The PC cannot use the full size just around 3,5 GB like Windows XP.
Actually the current configuration is different from that one on the picture (I uploaded the wrong picture but it was also a working configuration). Now in the BIOS somehow the "Speed" is also ~3.06 but earlier it was around 2.66 GHz. I don't know how realiable or how important informations are these at the boot but it was an easily noticable improvement. Still don't know how powerful is my capture PC maybe i shoud test it but i designed it overpowered for digitazing processes. The only issue i have that it starts boot after multiple startups. Maybe it has to be warmed up or the capacitors have to charge up :rolleyes:

You replied to a spammer. He had nothing useful to add to the conversation, and was simply blasting out to links to his worthless blog. It had nothing to do with this topic.

Sorry, i didn't realized it until now. I hope i didn't make any trouble by answered to a spammer. In the future i will be more careful

You didn't make any trouble. You're fine. :congrats:

When you see a new poster, and his 1st post contains links, odds are it's a spammer. Especially if he/she/it bumps an old post, or the links obviously has nothing to do with the conversation. That clown spammer in this thread was just adding links to some garbage blog about gamer PCs.

And now ... back to on-topic posts ... :wink2:

XP Integral Edition has a fix for this, but I've not yet tried.

Correct.

The harm is adding heat. That's really it. No help, harm is more heat. Because of where I live, I'm entirely against adding heat. It may be fine in winter, maybe even much of the spring, but summer and fall are just miserable when hot computers overrun the AC (and cause the AC to freeze up, even break).

I am happy that i am not in a trouble. My membership in the forum is very young so i automatically assume that every poster has more experience and longer membership than me. This is a very reliable and easy method to find a spammer you described.

My capture PC is finally finished, just have to install drivers/softwares and design the folder structure again. I am still not sure how to install VGA driver correctly but i will find out soon.

I hope 3,5 GB RAM will be more than enough because you said that 2 GB is also fine. I keep some spare storage for the CPU. Also you said to choose the CPU with higher frequency per core with minimum two cores. Quad-Core CPUs have lower frequency so i stayed at the Core 2 Duo E7600. Only the Core 2 Extreme X6900 has higher frequency (3.2 GHz). It's too much effort to get one. It's rare, so the price is high and when i find one it would come from an unreliable source (China).