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  #1  
03-13-2020, 09:34 AM
Cortez Cortez is online now
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Hi everyone,
the digitalization workflow is almost completed. The only missing part is the desktop. I have already ordered some parts:
  1. ATI AIW 9000
  2. Turtle Beach Santa Cruz
  3. ATI Purple Box
The other basic parts are still missing (like motherboard, CPU, RAM, HDD)
Yesterday i get an old PC from my friend because she bought a new one and the old one is not needed anymore. She just removed the HDD because of the data.

The motherboard has no AGP so it will not fit because ATI AIW 9000 is AGP. There is 1 GB RAM and a CPU. If not else can i use i still have a computer case with power supply.

So i need a motherboard, CPU, RAM and HDD.

As i read the posts the preferred OS is Windows XP SP2. As far as i remember XP cannot handle more than 4 GB RAM, so i don't need more right?

The CPU should be Intel or AMD is also fine and at least 2 Core? But what type? I had Intel Core 2 Duo before, is it good? Or the AMD's dual core processor should i choose? The Quad Core processors are not suggested?

I read that the HDD should be separated physically. One for the OS and the capturing and editing programs and the other for the raw materials? What size should they have? The bigger the better? Does RPM counts? SSD will not work in this specification?

-- merged --

I made some research yesterday about the motherboards or sometimes written as "mobo". I searched the term "Asrock".

The top 5 was like:
  1. Asrock 775i65G R3.0
  2. Asrock 775Dual-VSTA
  3. Asrock 4CoreDual-VSTA
  4. Asrock ConRoe865PE
  5. Asrock 4CoreDual-SATA2
Also mentioned:
  1. Asrock 775VM800
  2. Asrock AM2NF3-VSTA
  3. Asrock ALiveDual-eSATA2
  4. Asrock 775Dual-880Pro
  5. Asrock 4CoreDual-SATA2 R2.0
  6. Asrock P4VM800
  7. Asrock K8NF3-VSTA
  8. Asrock M3A UCC
More than two member's specification contained the 775i65G. I would prefer the ConRoe865PE because the only mobo that support RAM up to 4 GB DDR. I don't know 2 GB DDR2 is similar to 4 GB DDR?

All top 5 supports Core 2 Duo processors up to E6700 and X6800. More of them even beyond. All of them have AGP connector and 3-5 PCI connectors. The ConRoe865PE and 775i65G support only DDR (the ConRoe865PE up to 4 GB) and the others DDR and DDR2 maximum 2 GB. All of them have 2 SATA connector, the last one SATAII.

There are mentioned an eSata Expansion Kit to get 2 more SATA connector used one PCI. The build should have two SATA HDD - one for OS and one for capture - but we also need an optical drive to burn the materials to DVD. Can it work over IDE ? Or it will be too slow ?

I searched them on second hand sites. ConRoe865PE and 775Dual-VSTA didn't find anywhere. 4CoreDual-SATA2 are a lot on eBay. 775i65G i found more of them on eBay, also inland. But i found only one 4CoreDual-VSTA inland. I think i will buy that one. There is a big difference in price between eBay and my local second hand site. On eBay these motherboards costs about $100, but locally i can get the 4CoreDual-VSTA for $20. + shipping.
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  #2  
03-15-2020, 01:35 PM
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Assuming it is "good", the 4CoreDual-VSTA for $20 sounds like a great base to build upon. Pretty much any Core2 Duo or Core2 Quad will provide plenty of power to do the job. My E6700 works fine on my 775Dual-VSTA but then even my 3.06 Ghz P4 works fine too for capture with a 32MB Rage 100 AIW. 2GB ram is the recommended amount and is the max most of these boards can use anyway. Either DDR or DDR2 will work, 2 x 1GB sticks of either, NOT both. You can't mix DDR and DDR2. The 4CoreDual-VSTA has 4 memory slots 2 for DDR and 2 for DDR2. You use one set or the other, not both. DDR2 will be slightly faster but DDR will be fine.

Condition, price and availability will probably drive your choice of CPU and ram, but it should all be quite cheap. I stuck with the E6700 in part because it is a 65W unit and the faster ones were either more money or more power or both. Read up on the supported CPU's for your board here (or whatever) to understand the wide array of CPU options you will have. You'll also need a heatsink for the CPU capable of handling whatever CPU you get. Then go hunting for a CPU. Same thing but simpler for the ram.

You may want to find an IDE (parallel ATA) drive to use as the boot drive. Setting up to boot from SATA can be a bit tricky with those VIA SATA ports. I did it but needed to install a floppy just to be able to install the correct SATA drivers while installing Windows XP. I couldn't figure out a better way to do this but maybe there is. Using the IDE for boot gets around this problem. I also had an older IDE optical drive to use for my Windows install. I don't know if it would be possible to do the install from a SATA optical drive. With the right BIOS settings, it might be possible (ATAPI and/or IDE compatibility settings).

Just for reference: a passmark comparison of 3 CPU's. I believe the "single thread rating" is more important for capture than the "CPU Mark", but for your board it shouldn't be a problem to find one plenty good for the job.

BW
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  #3  
03-18-2020, 11:27 AM
Cortez Cortez is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BW37 View Post
Assuming it is "good", the 4CoreDual-VSTA for $20 sounds like a great base to build upon. Pretty much any Core2 Duo or Core2 Quad will provide plenty of power to do the job. My E6700 works fine on my 775Dual-VSTA but then even my 3.06 Ghz P4 works fine too for capture with a 32MB Rage 100 AIW. 2GB ram is the recommended amount and is the max most of these boards can use anyway. Either DDR or DDR2 will work, 2 x 1GB sticks of either, NOT both. You can't mix DDR and DDR2. The 4CoreDual-VSTA has 4 memory slots 2 for DDR and 2 for DDR2. You use one set or the other, not both. DDR2 will be slightly faster but DDR will be fine.

Condition, price and availability will probably drive your choice of CPU and ram, but it should all be quite cheap. I stuck with the E6700 in part because it is a 65W unit and the faster ones were either more money or more power or both. Read up on the supported CPU's for your board here (or whatever) to understand the wide array of CPU options you will have. You'll also need a heatsink for the CPU capable of handling whatever CPU you get. Then go hunting for a CPU. Same thing but simpler for the ram.

You may want to find an IDE (parallel ATA) drive to use as the boot drive. Setting up to boot from SATA can be a bit tricky with those VIA SATA ports. I did it but needed to install a floppy just to be able to install the correct SATA drivers while installing Windows XP. I couldn't figure out a better way to do this but maybe there is. Using the IDE for boot gets around this problem. I also had an older IDE optical drive to use for my Windows install. I don't know if it would be possible to do the install from a SATA optical drive. With the right BIOS settings, it might be possible (ATAPI and/or IDE compatibility settings).

Just for reference: a passmark comparison of 3 CPU's. I believe the "single thread rating" is more important for capture than the "CPU Mark", but for your board it shouldn't be a problem to find one plenty good for the job.

BW
I told this to my friend. He thinks i lost my mind because i would like to build an old PC. He just disposed a bunch of memory modules and motherboards. He has a box full of motherboards with CPU and heatsink and memory modules. He could dig out only two motherboards with AGP on it. The others were more modern with PCIe (without AGP). He says these parts shouldn't cost a penny. He gave me those two motherboards for free. He is also affraid these parts reliability. Old circuits, capacitors that will broke soon. He doesn't understand why i need an old computer for this job. The newer ones are more powerful and he thinks for digitalization much more resources needed. I told him that the other devices making the difficult part, the corrections like TBC. The PC only has to digitalize the signal and the minimal system requirement what i would like to reach. One of his friend also making some kind of digitalization and as he described the workflow contains only a cassette player (VCR) and a powerful PC with modern digitalization card(s?) and specialized softwares to correct the video signal and synchronize it with the audio. I told him that i get the information from experts here however in my country the Canopus brand considered as the top digitalization devices.
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03-19-2020, 01:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cortez View Post
I told this to my friend. He thinks i lost my mind because i would like to build an old PC. He just disposed a bunch of memory modules and motherboards. He has a box full of motherboards with CPU and heatsink and memory modules. He could dig out only two motherboards with AGP on it. The others were more modern with PCIe (without AGP). He says these parts shouldn't cost a penny. He gave me those two motherboards for free. He is also affraid these parts reliability. Old circuits, capacitors that will broke soon. He doesn't understand why i need an old computer for this job. The newer ones are more powerful and he thinks for digitalization much more resources needed. I told him that the other devices making the difficult part, the corrections like TBC. The PC only has to digitalize the signal and the minimal system requirement what i would like to reach. One of his friend also making some kind of digitalization and as he described the workflow contains only a cassette player (VCR) and a powerful PC with modern digitalization card(s?) and specialized softwares to correct the video signal and synchronize it with the audio. I told him that i get the information from experts here however in my country the Canopus brand considered as the top digitalization devices.
Your friend is not wrong. Building a PC with older components and using an old OS has some risks on the hardware side. But you indicated that you wanted to build a dedicated Capture PC. For capture only, Windows XP with an AIW card and Turtle Beach sound card is a tried and true option. The idea is that you capture (digitize) the video and audio and then move the digital files to a more powerful PC for further processing. The AGP AIW's are generally considered the most flexible and trouble free. PCIe AIW's are also an option and would allow the use of a newer motherboard, processor and memory. But they have their own set of issues that you need to understand (less flexible MPEG capture, more special cables needed, "offset" in the captured image, some fussiness in driver compatibility) before you choose that route. Still, for pure avi capture (no or little direct MPEG capture), the PCIe cards are a reasonable option.

Canopus and other options were discussed pretty extensively in your previous threads. There was a lot of information to absorb in those threads but in the end you seemed to want to pursue the AGP/AIW based PC option.

Digitalize VHS and miniDV, VCR and TBC to use?

Build a PC dedicated to capture, which card?

So what AGP motherboards did you get? Does your friend know their history? Were they still working when he took them out of service? Did you get anything else (CPU, memory, etc.).

Try to get your friend to consider it a challenge to revive and get one of his old boards back in service!
His/her help could be VERY useful... even if it has to be via texts/email, etc. for now.

Stay healthy!

BW
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  #5  
03-19-2020, 02:23 PM
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The motherboard is ASROCK 4CORE DUAL-VSTA. I also found more 775i65G R3 but those don't support DDRII only DDR up to 2GB both. DDR is 400 MHz and DDRII is 800 MHz so i would choose DDRII for a little bit higher performance. The AGP connector restrict the motherboard range. Those support only maximum 2 GB RAM (some 4 GB with DDR). You said that ATI AIW cooperate well with Turtle Beach. I also found 4CoreDual-SATA2 on eBay but the 4CORE DUAL-VSTA costs less ($20 against $100) also the shipping is more simple and cheaper. It has only SATA with 1.9 GB/s not 3.0 GB/s for the SATAII but i think for the capturing SATA is enough. I didn't ordered anything yet. I have a computer case with a "modern" motherboard with PCIe (without AGP) and got some motherboards with CPUs, RAMs and heatsinks. On the asrock.com in the supported CPUs there is X6800 that i didn't find anywhere so i searched and found an E6700. Also searching for 2 GB DDRII modules. I don't know that it should be dual channel (2x1GB DDRII modules) or a single. One IDE HDD for OS and one for capture via SATA. Applying the heatsink and done.

Quote:
The idea is that you capture (digitize) the video and audio and then move the digital files to a more powerful PC for further processing.
What does further processing means? Editing, cutting, using tranisitons? I would be happy if i can get the raw video files to watching on PC in the best quality that i can get. Then my mission is accomplished. I don't want to editing wedding footages . One or more comedy scenes i would upload to internet. Thats all. Please don't say that i made trouble for myself with these parts. The Turtle Beach is already here, the AIW card with the purple box is on its way. I followed these instructions.
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03-19-2020, 03:43 PM
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Quote:
"I don't know that it should be dual channel (2x1GB DDRII modules) or a single."
For dual channel operation you need 2 x 1GB modules. See page 17 of the manual (English version anyway).

Try this search on eBay "ddr2 pc5300 1gb -(sodimm, laptop)"
Just to be sure, you probably don't want "server" memory though it might work.

Quote:
"Please don't say that i made trouble for myself with these parts."
I'm not, but your friend seemed to be trying to convince you that you were.

Further processing? That will be up to you to decide what format(s) you'll need to watch or distribute the videos as you want. That's another deep subject that I'm not really qualified to provide guidance on.

The AGP AIW does give you decent direct to MPEG options if you don't want to do much restoration or editing. Check out the various guides on the site for more info.

BW
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  #7  
03-19-2020, 05:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cortez View Post
H The only missing part is the desktop. I have already ordered some parts:
ATI AIW 9000 + ATI Purple Box
Turtle Beach Santa Cruz
This mean 1x AGP, 1x PCI
May want another 1x PCI for SATA/eSATA PCI card.

Quote:
The motherboard has no AGP so it will not fit because ATI AIW 9000 is AGP. There is 1 GB RAM and a CPU. If not else can i use i still have a computer case with power supply.
That's exactly it. Gut for usable parts. Case, PSU, RAM, CPU. Details matter. Pay attention to PSU rating and revision type, RAM speed, if CPU allowed on another board.

Quote:
So i need a motherboard, CPU, RAM and HDD.
On eBay, CPUs are often less than $10, 2tb Seagate (best) HDDs under $50. I've bought a CPU for $4 and HDD for $25 in the recent past. RAM can be cheap, under $20 per stick. Motherboard are often where the cost is, under $100, sometimes less than half that, depending on model. Unlike video gear, eBay can be decent for computer hardware, though duds still happen at least 10% of the time (including the BS "tested" and "pulled from working environment" nonsense).

Quote:
As i read the posts the preferred OS is Windows XP SP2.
Not preferred. Required. There is no choice here.

Quote:
As far as i remember XP cannot handle more than 4 GB RAM, so i don't need more right?
Correct. Only stick in 2gb or 4gb. 1gb< is tolerable but low, 8gb+ can confuse the OS.

Quote:
The CPU should be Intel or AMD is also fine and at least 2 Core? But what type? I had Intel Core 2 Duo before, is it good? Or the AMD's dual core processor should i choose? The Quad Core processors are not suggested?
Use Intel only. AMDs run hot, and overly rely on budget quality VIA crap on almost all motherboards. Almost. I had used AMDs in the past, the late 2000s and early 2010s, but used the rarer/pricier Foxconn and Gigabyte motherboards. But heat was a constant problem, after I moved, in my current location. I sold those off to some members here, built myself new capture boxes. Migrating to Asrock/Intel was probably the best thing I did for my ATI AIW capture sanity. It was no fun capturing video, AC on full blast, computer fans making a wind tunnel (hard to restore audio), and still sitting in sweat-soaked clothes.

Quote:
I read that the HDD should be separated physically. One for the OS and the capturing and editing programs and the other for the raw materials?
If the computer is powerful enough, you can get by with a single large drive. I've done it. But not suggested for most users. It's easy to drop frames due to OS activity. That can be mitigated by really tweaking XP to not run stuff, turning off services.

In general, smaller (even IDE) drive for OS is fine. Large 2tb for capture files.

Quote:
What size should they have? The bigger the better?
2tb is max for XP. Use Seagates, those are quietest and best.

Quote:
Does RPM counts?
No, but you'll mostly see 2tb 7200rpm Seagates. A 5400rpm works perfectly on a my capture laptops.

Quote:
SSD will not work in this specification?
XO cannot use SSD. There is no TRIM, the SSD will slowly fail.

Quote:
More than two member's specification contained the 775i65G. I would prefer the ConRoe865PE because the only mobo that support RAM up to 4 GB DDR. I don't know 2 GB DDR2 is similar to 4 GB DDR?
There is no reason to have 4gb RAM for an ATI AIW capture system.

Quote:
All of them have 2 SATA connector, the last one SATAII.
SATA2 is more important that probably anything else on the old board. Big speed difference on file transfers.

Quote:
but we also need an optical drive to burn the materials to DVD. Can it work over IDE ? Or it will be too slow ?
IDE is fine for opticals. Bigger challenge may be locating an IDE optical. But, again, eBay. So probably not too hard. However, why? Move the capture files to the new system for editing, etc, including any DVD creation needs. Though realize I was making DVDs back in 2001, using P4 1.8ghz, 100gb IDE HDD, 2x DVD-R drive. The discs still look and work fine. DVDWS2 works nicely on AIW capture systems as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BW37 View Post
DDR2 will be slightly faster but DDR will be fine.
Also meaningless for the task. RAM has almost zero effect on capturing. It simply needs to be present, with adequate amount to prevent hitting the paging file (thus cause potential dropped frames). The actual speed is meaningless.

Quote:
I stuck with the E6700 in part because it is a 65W unit
65W is the TDP, and TDP is essentially heat output. Not exactly heat output, but essentially. I try to build systems as close to 50W TDP as possible (i3's these days), but 65W is the limit. Anything over is like my old AMD, 80-90W, and made the capture office hotter and uncomfortable.

Quote:
You'll also need a heatsink for the CPU capable of handling whatever CPU you get.
Cooler Master Hyper 212. Don't mess with anything else, unless you want the much pricier Noctuas. I use the 212s everywhere. all capture and non-capture systems. Only the main i7-6700 uses the Noctua, and is required due to heavy editing and encoding.

Quote:
You may want to find an IDE (parallel ATA) drive to use as the boot drive. ... I couldn't figure out a better way to do this but maybe there is.
DriverPacks on the XP install disc, to make new slipstreamed disc.
http://driverpacks.net/

Quote:
I believe the "single thread rating" is more important for capture than the "CPU Mark",
Correct.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cortez View Post
I told this to my friend. He thinks i lost my mind because i would like to build an old PC.
He doesn't understand why i need an old computer for this job.
he thinks for digitalization much more resources needed.
He just doesn't understand video. The end. Disregard his non-expert opinions.

Quote:
He is also affraid these parts reliability. Old circuits, capacitors that will broke soon.
Nonsense. Maybe in another 10-20 years, sure, maybe. But not now. I've used lots of decades-old computers, be it an Atari, Commodore, NeXT, and others. More machines do fail over time, but equally as many still run fine. The bigger issue with "old tech not working" is bad storage.

Quote:
One of his friend also making some kind of digitalization and as he described the workflow contains only a cassette player (VCR) and a powerful PC with modern digitalization card(s?) and specialized softwares to correct the video signal and synchronize it with the audio.
He's using cheap crap, and will yield crap quality as a result. There is no magic workflow that will allow skipping some form of TBC. There is no "specialized" software for most cards, merely low-quality stuff like Arcsoft that comes in the box. ATI MMC is a truly specialized software made for ATI AIW hardware; but best only to use it for MPEG, and VirtualDub for lossless AVI.

Quote:
I told him that i get the information from experts here however in my country the Canopus brand considered as the top digitalization devices.
Canopus was honestly more of a marketing company than hardware/software company. And it's not exists in 15+ years now. Grass Valley bought it years ago, and stopped with all the nonsense. But the nonsense lives on, all the many years later. Apparently Canopus did make a decent cards or so, but it was NOT the ADVC/DV box line, which was heavily marketed with myths and misinformation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BW37 View Post
Your friend is not wrong.
Building a PC with older components and using an old OS has some risks on the hardware side.
He's also not correct. His fearmongering is grossly overstated, to the point of being nonsense.

Quote:
But you indicated that you wanted to build a dedicated Capture PC. For capture only, Windows XP with an AIW card and Turtle Beach sound card is a tried and true option. The idea is that you capture (digitize) the video and audio and then move the digital files to a more powerful PC for further processing. The AGP AIW's are generally considered the most flexible and trouble free.
Exactly.

Quote:
So what AGP motherboards did you get? Does your friend know their history? Were they still working when he took them out of service? Did you get anything else (CPU, memory, etc.).
All important.

And BTW, if one of the boards doesn't work, it does NOT validate your friend's idea of "old tech = poopy". What it truly means is that either (a) he stored components that were alerady broken long ago, even if he claims "it was fine" (because human memories suck), or (b) he stored it in lousy conditions, subjected to heat, humidity, dirt, rat feces, or whatnot. The odds of a well-stored motherboard mysteriously fizzling out is minimal and unusual.

Quote:
Try to get your friend to consider it a challenge to revive and get one of his old boards back in service!
His/her help could be VERY useful... even if it has to be via texts/email, etc. for now.
Ha! Nice. Turn the tables.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cortez View Post
but the 4CORE DUAL-VSTA costs less ($20 against $100) also the shipping is more simple and cheaper. It has only SATA with 1.9 GB/s not 3.0 GB/s for the SATAII but i think for the capturing SATA is enough.
It really comes down to cost and availability. I've build an ATI AIW system on that board before, for somebody else.

Quote:
n the supported CPUs there
Asrock had later revisions that unofficially supported some CPUs with the final/EOL firmware upgrades. I use an E8400, which (at the time, 2013) was not officially supported (yet?) on the 4CoreDual board. I don't know if that ever changed. I built that 1st "current" ATI AIW system with the help of a family member, back at the height of my medical issues. He came across the info, and I was suspect, but was feeling adventurous. We did it, it worked, it still works. We replaced all systems here, replicated the recipe.

Quote:
What does further processing means? Editing, cutting, using tranisitons? I would be happy if i can get the raw video files to watching on PC in the best quality that i can get. Then my mission is accomplished. I don't want to editing wedding footages . One or more comedy scenes i would upload to internet. Thats all. Please don't say that i made trouble for myself with these parts. The Turtle Beach is already here, the AIW card with the purple box is on its way. I followed these instructions.
Post-capture is optional. I capture lossless on capture box, move files to eSATA drive. Put eSATA drive into MUCH more powerful i7-6700K system for restoring, editing, encoding, etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BW37 View Post
but your friend seemed to be trying to convince you that you were.
The friend soudns like an IT nerd that simply does not (or does not want to?) comprehend video tasks. Video isn't video games or Java programming or whatever. It's a very specialized task, and is mostly hardware-locked to the era (at least for the quality methods). I do not understand why some folks want to fight and resist the easier and best methods. I was doing video in the late 90s, then the early/mid 2000s, upgrading as I could afford, as soon as game-changer came out. But then in the late 00s and early 10s, true upgrades stopped. It turned in cheap Chinese crap downgrades, which later turned into expensive Blackmagic HD downgrades. Newer isn't better. Newer is newer. Sometimes newer sucks.

Great example: all those modern cars that come with auto shutoff. ARGH! &%$@&!!!!
Not, at all, an upgrade. Certainly not something user requested!!!

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03-24-2020, 04:16 PM
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I just revisited my thread because didn't get any notification for a long time. I answered lordsmurf's comment but now it lost. I did everything just the same as before (quotes, picture in the attachment). Somebody deleted it? I am not nervous just curious what happened. Did i something wrong? No notification that telling me i violate one of the forum rule or something. I would be more careful if i know what did i wrong? Not allowed to attach picture about capture cards or did i insult somebody?

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03-24-2020, 04:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cortez View Post
I just revisited my thread because didn't get any notification for a long time. I answered lordsmurf's comment but now it lost. I did everything just the same as before (quotes, picture in the attachment). Somebody deleted it? I am not nervous just curious what happened. Did i something wrong? No notification that telling me i violate one of the forum rule or something. I would be more careful if i know what did i wrong? Not allowed to attach picture about capture cards or did i insult somebody?

Nothing was removed.
Are you sure it posted?
Or are you sure it was posted in this thread, and not another?
Check your past posts from your profile page: http://www.digitalFAQ.com/forum/members/cortez.html

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03-25-2020, 03:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lordsmurf View Post
Nothing was removed.
Are you sure it posted?
Or are you sure it was posted in this thread, and not another?
Check your past posts from your profile page: http://www.digitalFAQ.com/forum/members/cortez.html
First i checked my profile and no clue about the post. I surely posted in this thread because clicked on your comments [Quote] button. I grouped your answers. Maybe i also edited my post after that because i left one or two words. But i remember that i could check my attached picture if i attached the right one with the right size. Doesn't matter now. Try to rewrite my comment again
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03-25-2020, 03:50 AM
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I waited with this reply because today the ATI AIW card with the purple box arrived. So all the capture cards are ready i just need to put them into a machine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lordsmurf View Post
This mean 1x AGP, 1x PCI
May want another 1x PCI for SATA/eSATA PCI card.
The 4CoreDual-VSTA has 2 SATAI. The OS HDD will be connect via IDE, the capture HDD via SATA and the DVD-ROM also via IDE. Maybe also SATAI. So in this conception i don't need the extension card, right?

Quote:
Originally Posted by lordsmurf View Post
That's exactly it. Gut for usable parts. Case, PSU, RAM, CPU. Details matter. Pay attention to PSU rating and revision type, RAM speed, if CPU allowed on another board.
Yes i have the computer case, comes with IDE DVD-ROM. The power supply maybe can provide enough voltage to the computer. The motherboard has no AGP, the CPU didn't see yet, maybe the RAM will be also useful. It's 1 GB surely but don't know if DDRI, DDRII or DDRIII.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lordsmurf View Post
On eBay, CPUs are often less than $10, 2tb Seagate (best) HDDs under $50. I've bought a CPU for $4 and HDD for $25 in the recent past. RAM can be cheap, under $20 per stick. Motherboard are often where the cost is, under $100, sometimes less than half that, depending on model. Unlike video gear, eBay can be decent for computer hardware, though duds still happen at least 10% of the time (including the BS "tested" and "pulled from working environment" nonsense).
Agreed but i checked the second hand site in my country. Fortunately we have also a lot of computer parts for sale here. I am sure that on eBay i can find a lot more. The price is quite the same but with shipping those costs a little more. If i could get decent parts from inland i would choose those but if i can get it only from eBay i will buy from there.

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Originally Posted by lordsmurf View Post
Use Intel only. AMDs run hot, and overly rely on budget quality VIA crap on almost all motherboards. Almost. I had used AMDs in the past, the late 2000s and early 2010s, but used the rarer/pricier Foxconn and Gigabyte motherboards. But heat was a constant problem, after I moved, in my current location. I sold those off to some members here, built myself new capture boxes. Migrating to Asrock/Intel was probably the best thing I did for my ATI AIW capture sanity. It was no fun capturing video, AC on full blast, computer fans making a wind tunnel (hard to restore audio), and still sitting in sweat-soaked clothes.
Understood. AMD processors and motherboards with AMD socket removed from the list.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lordsmurf View Post
If the computer is powerful enough, you can get by with a single large drive. I've done it. But not suggested for most users. It's easy to drop frames due to OS activity. That can be mitigated by really tweaking XP to not run stuff, turning off services.

In general, smaller (even IDE) drive for OS is fine. Large 2tb for capture files.

2tb is max for XP. Use Seagates, those are quietest and best.

No, but you'll mostly see 2tb 7200rpm Seagates. A 5400rpm works perfectly on a my capture laptops.

XO cannot use SSD. There is no TRIM, the SSD will slowly fail.

There is no reason to have 4gb RAM for an ATI AIW capture system.
Understood. No SSD only HDD. 2TB for the capture files via SATA and IDE for the OS. Do you have an estimated size of the OS HDD? For the OS and capturing programs, etc? Preferred manufacturer is Seagate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lordsmurf View Post
SATA2 is more important that probably anything else on the old board. Big speed difference on file transfers.
Here lies the real question. I search through the Asrock.com's motherboards. As far i can see with LGA775 socket the only motherboard with AGP and SATAII is 4CoreDual-SATA2. Unfortunately there is no filter options to remove the motherboards with AMD sockets, without AGP and so on. This 4CoreDual-SATA2 available only from eBay, not form inland second hand site. There is only a 4CoreDual-VSTA. It has only SATAI but quite the same. The SATA speed considered as a bottleneck? It should be the faster SATAII (3.0 GB/s) instead the SATAI (1.5 GB/s). If so i have to order it from eBay for $100 instead the 4CoreDual-VSTA for $20. + shipping.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lordsmurf View Post
IDE is fine for opticals. Bigger challenge may be locating an IDE optical. But, again, eBay. So probably not too hard. However, why? Move the capture files to the new system for editing, etc, including any DVD creation needs. Though realize I was making DVDs back in 2001, using P4 1.8ghz, 100gb IDE HDD, 2x DVD-R drive. The discs still look and work fine. DVDWS2 works nicely on AIW capture systems as well.
The computer case came with IDE optical drive.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lordsmurf View Post
Also meaningless for the task. RAM has almost zero effect on capturing. It simply needs to be present, with adequate amount to prevent hitting the paging file (thus cause potential dropped frames). The actual speed is meaningless.
Ok so the 2 GB DDRII RAM should be fine. These motherboards don't really support 4 or more GB RAM. I just, so it would be nice if the computer runs smoothly without lagging and long loading time, etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lordsmurf View Post
He just doesn't understand video. The end. Disregard his non-expert opinions.

Nonsense. Maybe in another 10-20 years, sure, maybe. But not now. I've used lots of decades-old computers, be it an Atari, Commodore, NeXT, and others. More machines do fail over time, but equally as many still run fine. The bigger issue with "old tech not working" is bad storage.

He's using cheap crap, and will yield crap quality as a result. There is no magic workflow that will allow skipping some form of TBC. There is no "specialized" software for most cards, merely low-quality stuff like Arcsoft that comes in the box. ATI MMC is a truly specialized software made for ATI AIW hardware; but best only to use it for MPEG, and VirtualDub for lossless AVI.

He's also not correct. His fearmongering is grossly overstated, to the point of being nonsense.

And BTW, if one of the boards doesn't work, it does NOT validate your friend's idea of "old tech = poopy". What it truly means is that either (a) he stored components that were alerady broken long ago, even if he claims "it was fine" (because human memories suck), or (b) he stored it in lousy conditions, subjected to heat, humidity, dirt, rat feces, or whatnot. The odds of a well-stored motherboard mysteriously fizzling out is minimal and unusual.

The friend soudns like an IT nerd that simply does not (or does not want to?) comprehend video tasks. Video isn't video games or Java programming or whatever. It's a very specialized task, and is mostly hardware-locked to the era (at least for the quality methods). I do not understand why some folks want to fight and resist the easier and best methods. I was doing video in the late 90s, then the early/mid 2000s, upgrading as I could afford, as soon as game-changer came out. But then in the late 00s and early 10s, true upgrades stopped. It turned in cheap Chinese crap downgrades, which later turned into expensive Blackmagic HD downgrades. Newer isn't better. Newer is newer. Sometimes newer sucks.
He is actually an IT guy. He is working with hardwares only. He don't want to make me trouble he just want to help the best as he could. I am also dummy in computer building i prefer programming, not building them. I agree that if something is older (from one of the previous era) it doesn't consider as junk.


Quote:
Originally Posted by lordsmurf View Post
Asrock had later revisions that unofficially supported some CPUs with the final/EOL firmware upgrades. I use an E8400, which (at the time, 2013) was not officially supported (yet?) on the 4CoreDual board. I don't know if that ever changed. I built that 1st "current" ATI AIW system with the help of a family member, back at the height of my medical issues. He came across the info, and I was suspect, but was feeling adventurous. We did it, it worked, it still works. We replaced all systems here, replicated the recipe.
I don't wanna risk with CPUs if it will work with that motherboard or not. If you say so that this motherboard with this upgrades will work with that CPU i will believe you. So i will search for that CPU and motherboard because i can be sure that it will work. I want to reach the recommended system requirement, not the minimal. The best configuration that supports this workflow with AGP capture card and PCI sound card. RAM is not that important so 2 GB DDRII will be okay, using only HDDs (capture one via SATA) so only the CPU left.


Quote:
Originally Posted by lordsmurf View Post
Great example: all those modern cars that come with auto shutoff. ARGH! &%$@&!!!!
Not, at all, an upgrade. Certainly not something user requested!!!
My friend (the best friend actually) work as a car mechanic. He has a lot of horror stories about the newer cars.


PS.: I thought my reply lost because i watched it only in preview. The only reasonable answer because i didn't use preview before and forgot to post it later.


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  #12  
03-25-2020, 10:02 AM
Sergei316 Sergei316 is offline
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I have been using SSD's for my XP Pro SP2 capture boxes for over a year without issue.

There is a ton of debate online about using SSD's with XP. I myself like using the SSD for the OS and use a 2TB Seagate for capture.

There are some caveats:

1) Get an SSD that has software that is able to be used in XP. There are not many but there are some. Those programs have TRIM schedulers built into them that you can utilize.

2) Format the drive on a Win 7 or higher machine before installing OS.

3) You may have to slipstream AHCI drivers during XP OS install. Multiple ways to accomplish this effectively. The easiest is finding a motherboard that has AHCI built in and is capable of running in IDE mode.

4) You have to setup the OS to run the SSD effeciently. Many, many links online to optimize SSD's for a particular OS.

Just giving you some options.
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03-25-2020, 10:16 AM
Cortez Cortez is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sergei316 View Post
I have been using SSD's for my XP Pro SP2 capture boxes for over a year without issue.

There is a ton of debate online about using SSD's with XP. I myself like using the SSD for the OS and use a 2TB Seagate for capture.

There are some caveats:

1) Get an SSD that has software that is able to be used in XP. There are not many but there are some. Those programs have TRIM schedulers built into them that you can utilize.

2) Format the drive on a Win 7 or higher machine before installing OS.

3) You may have to slipstream AHCI drivers during XP OS install. Multiple ways to accomplish this effectively. The easiest is finding a motherboard that has AHCI built in and is capable of running in IDE mode.

4) You have to setup the OS to run the SSD effeciently. Many, many links online to optimize SSD's for a particular OS.

Just giving you some options.
Thank you Sergei. It looks quite difficult to install an XP OS to an SSD. I also happy to find a motherboard that supports SATAII (4CoreDual-SATA2). I checked its specification but didn't find any clue about AHCI. I don't know if i can reach higher speed with SSD via SATAI instead HDD via SATAI, SATAII or IDE and at what cost. Maybe spend days without success and making unrecoverable damages.
Thanks for the options but it sounds like risky to me.
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  #14  
03-25-2020, 04:33 PM
BW37 BW37 is offline
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My follows:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cortez View Post
The 4CoreDual-VSTA has 2 SATAI. The OS HDD will be connect via IDE, the capture HDD via SATA and the DVD-ROM also via IDE. Maybe also SATAI. So in this conception i don't need the extension card, right?
In my opinion, I would take this path. The 4CoreDual-VSTA is a good base and staying IDE for the boot drive and DVD will make it more straight forward. It sounds like it is also available. That's worth a lot. The 4CoreDual-SATA2 would be better but only at transferring files (faster), not at capturing them. SATA1 is fast enough to capture without problems. Once you have it up and working, then you could look into making it boot faster and be more responsive by changing to a SATA boot drive or even an SSD boot drive. None of this will matter while doing actual capture.

Alternatively, you could keep searching for a 4CoreDual-SATA2 until you find one.

Putting your capture 2TB HDD in an eSATA enclosure will simplify moving files to another PC for transfer or final processing and storage on something other than your capture drive.
Discussion on eSATA enclosures, etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cortez View Post
Yes i have the computer case, comes with IDE DVD-ROM. The power supply maybe can provide enough voltage to the computer. The motherboard has no AGP, the CPU didn't see yet, maybe the RAM will be also useful. It's 1 GB surely but don't know if DDRI, DDRII or DDRIII.
Since the board is not AGP it's of no use. Hopefully, the case takes a standard full sized ATX motherboard. Most older PC's do, but some use proprietary parts. Use the case, Optical drive and maybe the PSU and maybe even the boot HDD to use as the boot drive in your "new" capture PC. Check the CPU, heatsink and memory to see if they might work on the 4CoreDual-VSTA.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cortez View Post
Understood. No SSD only HDD. 2TB for the capture files via SATA and IDE for the OS. Do you have an estimated size of the OS HDD? For the OS and capturing programs, etc? Preferred manufacturer is Seagate.
I think this is a good plan. OS HDD does not need to be large. 40GB would be enough. I just checked one of mine and it is using less than 9GB with WinXP installed and working for capture. If you can, try to find an ATA/133 drive. ATA/100 will also be fine, but 133 was the fastest of the IDE HDD's.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cortez View Post
Here lies the real question. I search through the Asrock.com's motherboards. As far i can see with LGA775 socket the only motherboard with AGP and SATAII is 4CoreDual-SATA2. Unfortunately there is no filter options to remove the motherboards with AMD sockets, without AGP and so on. This 4CoreDual-SATA2 available only from eBay, not form inland second hand site. There is only a 4CoreDual-VSTA. It has only SATAI but quite the same. The SATA speed considered as a bottleneck? It should be the faster SATAII (3.0 GB/s) instead the SATAI (1.5 GB/s). If so i have to order it from eBay for $100 instead the 4CoreDual-VSTA for $20. + shipping.
Again, my vote is for the $20 4CoreDual-VSTA. YMMV

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cortez View Post
He is actually an IT guy. He is working with hardwares only. He don't want to make me trouble he just want to help the best as he could. I am also dummy in computer building i prefer programming, not building them. I agree that if something is older (from one of the previous era) it doesn't consider as junk.
Again, enlisting your IT friends help could be useful, especially if you want to try things like slipstreaming ACHI drivers to boot from a SATA drive or something. That should be right up his alley if he's a hardware guy. He'll just have to buy into your need to build an WinXP machine and go with it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cortez View Post
I don't wanna risk with CPUs if it will work with that motherboard or not. If you say so that this motherboard with this upgrades will work with that CPU i will believe you. So i will search for that CPU and motherboard because i can be sure that it will work. I want to reach the recommended system requirement, not the minimal. The best configuration that supports this workflow with AGP capture card and PCI sound card. RAM is not that important so 2 GB DDRII will be okay, using only HDDs (capture one via SATA) so only the CPU left.
There are way too many CPU choices to pick one as the "best". You'll need to balance speed, power consumption, price and availability all the while making sure it's compatible with the motherboard. Faster is always better, but even the slowest Core 2 Duo will likely be fast enough to capture fine. Staying with 65W TDP or less is easy with Core 2 Duo but might be harder with Core 2 Quad. You'll need to go back and forth between these (and eBay or wherever)
List of Core 2 CPU's, features, power consumption, etc.
List of supported CPU's for 4CoreDual-VSTA

Among the officially supported CPU's the E6700 still looks like a sweet spot to me. If someone else can verify unofficial support of a later, faster CPU it might be worth trying. YMMV as they say.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cortez View Post
My friend (the best friend actually) work as a car mechanic. He has a lot of horror stories about the newer cars.
Most of us mechanics and ex-mechanics would agree.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cortez View Post
PS.: I thought my reply lost because i watched it only in preview. The only reasonable answer because i didn't use preview before and forgot to post it later.
Been there done that. Frustrating

BW
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  #15  
03-25-2020, 05:10 PM
Cortez Cortez is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BW37 View Post
In my opinion, I would take this path. The 4CoreDual-VSTA is a good base and staying IDE for the boot drive and DVD will make it more straight forward. It sounds like it is also available. That's worth a lot. The 4CoreDual-SATA2 would be better but only at transferring files (faster), not at capturing them. SATA1 is fast enough to capture without problems. Once you have it up and working, then you could look into making it boot faster and be more responsive by changing to a SATA boot drive or even an SSD boot drive. None of this will matter while doing actual capture.

Alternatively, you could keep searching for a 4CoreDual-SATA2 until you find one.
I found both motherboards. 4CoreDual-VSTA is from inland: $20 + shipping (~$6, summarized: $30 maximum) and 4CoreDual-SATA2 from eBay: $100 + shipping (~$20, summarized: $120). It doesn't depend on the price. Does SATA2 speed worth it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BW37 View Post
Putting your capture 2TB HDD in an eSATA enclosure will simplify moving files to another PC for transfer or final processing and storage on something other than your capture drive.
Discussion on eSATA enclosures, etc.
True. I forget this advantage to disconnect the drive and transfer the files to another computer. I don't know if it can work with easily removable drives. Like placing my capture HDD to a rack. I also planned to buy a HDD docker not specially for this project. It could be connect to any PC via USB 3.0. Storing my home videos and photos on an archive (backup) HDD. I could exchange the HDDs in the docker. So my devices could share the storage between television (watching movie) or capturing videos to a dedicated "capturing HDD". I don't know what would be the best solution.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BW37 View Post
Since the board is not AGP it's of no use. Hopefully, the case takes a standard full sized ATX motherboard. Most older PC's do, but some use proprietary parts. Use the case, Optical drive and maybe the PSU and maybe even the boot HDD to use as the boot drive in your "new" capture PC. Check the CPU, heatsink and memory to see if they might work on the 4CoreDual-VSTA.
The PC came without HDD but other parts maybe useful. Motherboards surely not, but maybe the PSU can be useful (450W). For me it doesn't matter if all the parts pinned on a cardboard just not stepping on it and not bothering me. In a metal PC case we don't hurt eachother.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BW37 View Post
I think this is a good plan. OS HDD does not need to be large. 40GB would be enough. I just checked one of mine and it is using less than 9GB with WinXP installed and working for capture. If you can, try to find an ATA/133 drive. ATA/100 will also be fine, but 133 was the fastest of the IDE HDD's.
I am on it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BW37 View Post
Again, my vote is for the $20 4CoreDual-VSTA. YMMV
Yep. The bid is just waiting for me (or for somebody else) to get it. I asked the seller and he said that he will relist the product until somebody actually buying it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BW37 View Post
Again, enlisting your IT friends help could be useful, especially if you want to try things like slipstreaming ACHI drivers to boot from a SATA drive or something. That should be right up his alley if he's a hardware guy. He'll just have to buy into your need to build an WinXP machine and go with it.
He still doesn't understand my motivations . Actually i am even more dummy as him in this topic. At least he build more PCs than me. It would be a big help if he could place the motherboard in the case. RAM modules and PCI cards i also placed all of my PCs before also drives.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BW37 View Post
There are way too many CPU choices to pick one as the "best". You'll need to balance speed, power consumption, price and availability all the while making sure it's compatible with the motherboard. Faster is always better, but even the slowest Core 2 Duo will likely be fast enough to capture fine. Staying with 65W TDP or less is easy with Core 2 Duo but might be harder with Core 2 Quad. You'll need to go back and forth between these (and eBay or wherever)
List of Core 2 CPU's, features, power consumption, etc.
List of supported CPU's for 4CoreDual-VSTA
Among the officially supported CPU's the E6700 still looks like a sweet spot to me. If someone else can verify unofficial support of a later, faster CPU it might be worth trying. YMMV as they say.
Yes i am still waiting for a confirmation about the unofficial supported CPU for those motherboards.

What does YMMV mean? "Your Mileage May Vary"
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  #16  
03-26-2020, 10:22 AM
Sergei316 Sergei316 is offline
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Originally Posted by Cortez View Post
I don't know if i can reach higher speed with SSD via SATAI instead HDD via SATAI, SATAII or IDE and at what cost. Maybe spend days without success and making unrecoverable damages.
Thanks for the options but it sounds like risky to me.
On average, with SSD connected to SATAII, you should see read and write speeds up to 300mb/s.

That is far superior to any mechanical drives.
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  #17  
03-26-2020, 02:34 PM
BW37 BW37 is offline
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@Cortez: "What does YMMV mean? "Your Mileage May Vary" "
Yes. Sorry for any confusion.

I've been looking through Via and Intel chipset information to see if I could really understand what was the best choice for SATA drive compatibility and speed. It's confusing and there is probably no right answer.

What I've found MIGHT lead one to conclude that the 4CoreDual-SATA2 was worth spending more for vs. the 4CoreDual-VSTA. As others have said, the extra spped should be nice. But it might also be more compatible with later drives which is probably more important. Still the 4CoreDual-VSTA can be made to work quite adequately...

As for as I can tell, neither the 4CoreDual-VSTA or any Intel 865 based motherboard actually support SATA2. But it seems the Intel chipset is more likely to be "compatible" with later SATA standards, especially SATA3. But compatibility does not mean faster, just more likely to work reliably, but at SATA1 speed - at best (as I understand it). Of the two Via based options (4CoreDual-SATA2, and 4CoreDual-VSTA), it would seem logical to think that the later chipset in the 4CoreDual-SATA2 would be more likely to better support SATA3. But no guarantees. The reason that is important is that all new HDDs and SSDs are SATA3, supposedly backwards compatible with SATA2 and SATA1.

Here's a thread that discusses some of this.

To really understand it you'll need to read up extensively about the different chipsets (Southbridge versions, esp.) and also read lots of old posts about people complaining about not getting theoretical SATA1 speeds out of their new SATA1 drives, etc.

Maybe NJRoadfan or someone could provide more clarity.

BW
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03-26-2020, 03:17 PM
Cortez Cortez is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BW37 View Post
Yes. Sorry for any confusion.
Don't worry its fine. I am not familiar with these. Still don't know the meaning behind this phrase.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BW37 View Post
I've been looking through Via and Intel chipset information to see if I could really understand what was the best choice for SATA drive compatibility and speed. It's confusing and there is probably no right answer.

What I've found MIGHT lead one to conclude that the 4CoreDual-SATA2 was worth spending more for vs. the 4CoreDual-VSTA. As others have said, the extra spped should be nice. But it might also be more compatible with later drives which is probably more important. Still the 4CoreDual-VSTA can be made to work quite adequately...

As for as I can tell, neither the 4CoreDual-VSTA or any Intel 865 based motherboard actually support SATA2. But it seems the Intel chipset is more likely to be "compatible" with later SATA standards, especially SATA3. But compatibility does not mean faster, just more likely to work reliably, but at SATA1 speed - at best (as I understand it). Of the two Via based options (4CoreDual-SATA2, and 4CoreDual-VSTA), it would seem logical to think that the later chipset in the 4CoreDual-SATA2 would be more likely to better support SATA3. But no guarantees. The reason that is important is that all new HDDs and SSDs are SATA3, supposedly backwards compatible with SATA2 and SATA1.
Makes sense.

Quote:
I read this topic but not much more information. I believe that Lordsmurf built a lot of capturing system to sell but in that topic didn't mention some exact information about the motherboard type name or anything about the specification. It would be useful. Like a starting point. Using this motherboard. Ohh okay so what processors and RAMs are compatible with that. Maybe i didn't find that topic yet with that essential informations.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BW37 View Post
To really understand it you'll need to read up extensively about the different chipsets (Southbridge versions, esp.) and also read lots of old posts about people complaining about not getting theoretical SATA1 speeds out of their new SATA1 drives, etc.

Maybe NJRoadfan or someone could provide more clarity.
I don't think if i start to read that kind of descriptions i can go further. It will sound chinese to me. Somebody's opinion would be really useful if he can specify the minimum HDD speed for capturing so we can compare it with the SATAI or SATAII speed.

Back to the SATA Expansion PCI card. How should i imagine that? A card connected to the motherboard's PCI slot and has two SATA connectors? So if i use an eSata drive to move my files to another computer i have to remove the computer case's side panel to remove the drive? Using screwdriver and other tools? In that case does it matter if i unplug the SATA cable from the Expansion card or directly from the motherboard then remove the screws? It provides two more connector to SATA drives. This is the main function?
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Yesterday, 05:09 AM
Cortez Cortez is online now
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I have some news.

I ordered the 4CoreDual-SATA2. Within only 3 days it arrived from Poland to Hungary. Very impressive. The wrapping (packaging) was professional with bubble foil and styrofoam pads. Unfortunately some pins are deformed (front panel pins) but nothing else. What i noticed that on the motherboard at the SATA connectors the text is only SATA 1 and SATA 2, not SATA II_1 and SATAII_2 as i saw on the official site pictures. The type is visible on the picture and i think it is a REV 2.0 but the SATA text is still confusing me. What is the explanation behind this? Should i test with some tools when it will work?

What is the next step? Now i can replace the motherboard in the computer case and using the 1 GB RAM module for start, later i will buy another 1 GB. Can somebody suggest me an unofficial supported CPU list to experiment with it? Starting from the top with a high end CPU ?


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Yesterday, 11:31 AM
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The detailed information about the rev. level, etc. is the small text just below the model number text: 4CoreDual-SATA2. Can't read it in your photo.

Overall it looks like it's more likely to be a SATA2 than VSTA board. I'm sure there were small differences in the exact labeling of the boards as they went through various production runs.

I can't help with "unsupported" CPU ideas. Going with something officially supported to start would be my choice but that's up to you.

I'd recommend doing some Googling and video watching on the basics of "How to build a PC". That will answer a lot of your questions on the details of building a PC. Most will be about gaming PC's and newer systems but the basics are the same. Here's a start:

https://www.intel.com/content/www/us...gaming-pc.html

Be careful regarding static electricity. Also, be sure to match the "standoffs" that support the motherboard in the case to the actual screw-holes in the motherboard. Remove any extras (if there are any) or move them to where they are needed for your motherboard. You absolutely do not want an extra standoff to short out some component on the motherboard.

Be extra careful of the "pins" of the CPU socket on the motherboard. Don't bend any... Installing the CPU
will protect the pins from then on.

It's often easier to assemble some components to the motherboard before installing it in the case, but you still need to be able to access the motherboard mounting screws as it's installed so that isn't always possible. Still, doing some "dry run" assembly outside the case could be useful just to get the "feel" for how things install. It might also help understand what order of installation will work best. For instance, sometimes you need to install the ram before the CPU heatsink, etc.

BW
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