Quantcast Should I convert composite to SVHS? - digitalFAQ Forum
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07-08-2020, 11:57 AM
Formica Formica is offline
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I have an AVT-8120, which is a composite device that contains the proper chipset. Lordsmurf, you have said:

Quote:
Originally Posted by lordsmurf View Post
Composite isn't terrible, contrary to popular misconception. Quality of composite is highly dependent on the device itself, providing the in/out composite. Some can be blurry, have excess rainbow, chroma delays, etc. But it's the device that does it, not the carrier wires. Composite is lesser than s-video, but it's not a night-and-day sort of difference.
Given this information, would there be any point in converting the output of the ATV-8120 to SVHS using this device, a composite to Y/C converter, at the end of the chain?

https://www.hdtvsupply.com/c2yc.html

Lordsmurf, you've also mentioned that
Quote:
Cypress CDM-8120, same IC chips as green AVT-8710, NTSC only, composite only model" is "as good as a DataVideo TBC!
Can I infer from that statement that an ATV-8120 with proper chipset is also as good as a DataVideo TBC, despite no SVHS connection?

-- merged --

Apologies, I meant to say S-video instead of SVHS.
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  #2  
07-08-2020, 03:00 PM
keaton keaton is offline
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I would advise anyone to do their own experimenting and find out what they prefer. We are here to share our experiences and give our advice. But ultimately, we are all free to arrive at our own conclusions.

Although not the same as the device you mention, I'll say I was surprised to find I preferred the S-Video output from a Panasonic ES10 DVD Recorder when used as a pass through and the tape player was connected to the ES10 Composite Input (because the tape player did not have an S-Video output). All the theory of the damage already being done by starting with a Composite output from the player would have told me that there is no point to use the S-Video output from the pass through. However, reality proved otherwise. There was some benefit, I concluded, by comparing the two. Sure, it would have been better to start with a player with S-Video out, but that was not the situation I had to work with. However, I was still able to improve things by trying the Composite to S-Video circuitry in the ES10. The morale of the story is, try it and find out. Only you can see for yourself what is best.

Although, after re-reading your post, I understand you are asking about purchasing a significantly expensive piece of equipment. So, perhaps my advice is not that helpful. You are probably looking for advice from those that have purchased this device. I can only say that it might help, which may not do you any good right now. Certainly a decent amount of money to take a risk on without knowing more about it. Maybe you should try getting a used ES10 or ES15 DVD Recorder as a pass-through. Certainly a lot less than the price of the device in the link.
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07-08-2020, 03:12 PM
Formica Formica is offline
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keaton, I own an ES15, which means I can go S-video-to S-video at first, but still need to then use composite for the AV-8120. I could spend several hundred dollars on that converter, but the signal information I am trying to maintain may already have been permanently lost at the AV-8120 composite connection. There may be a good reason for avoiding a converter at that point.
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07-08-2020, 03:33 PM
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lordsmurf lordsmurf is offline
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It must be noted that not all AVT-8120 are equal. Some good units, more bad units. Most eBay units are paperweights.

Did that unit come from me? If so, then the unit is fine as is.

Burst Electronics is terrible, so double-no. Their Pixie-FS TBCs varied highly. There are reports of good models (unconfirmed), bad models (confirmed), and picky models that would only mate with certain VCRs (not JVCs) in workflows. I would trust Burst about as much as I'd trust Sima -- that is to say, not at all.

I don't know that I've ever claimed the composite Cypress was as good as a DataVideo, though composite in/out would match pretty closely. And potentially better, subjectively. Also depending on source tapes.

ES10/15 composite in to s-video out may or may not make a difference. Any difference is usually worse, but I've seen better with some sources/tapes in some workflows. I've done composite in to my green AVT-8710, and s-video out, and it was fine. I don't think anything was really improved, but the exact capture card being used needed s-video (composite artifacting; again, some devices handle composite in/out poorly).

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07-08-2020, 03:41 PM
hodgey hodgey is offline
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It will depend on the capture device used. Most capture devices have pretty mediocre Y/C separation, the Diamond VC500 and other dongles based on the same hardware in particular. ATI AIW cards (not ATi 600 USB), and some of the newer pcie capture cards have 3D Y/C filters that can do a pretty good job. The Y/C device you linked only lists a "2H Digital adaptive comb filter", that's not really any better than most capture cards have, most DVD-recorders have way more advanced Y/C separation than that.

If you already have the ES15 in the chain you can usually capture just fine straight from it's output, the video it outputs is already digitized and converted back to a stable analog signal. The expections being if it detects copy protection and re-adds it to the output (and the capture device doesn't deal well with it), or if there are longer tape sections with no video signal The Panasonic DVRs have a habit of turning off the output if they think there is no signal on the selected input, at least for PAL I've only found it to trigger if there are sections recorded to a tape with no video input on the VCR, tape sections that have not been recorded to at all output enough noise to avoid it, and a built-in VCR TBC may also prevent this.
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07-08-2020, 03:48 PM
Formica Formica is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lordsmurf View Post
It must be noted that not all AVT-8120 are equal. Some good units, more bad units. Most eBay units are paperweights.
My AVT-8120 is a few numbers higher than the "good range" of production run serial numbers according to your AVT-8120 Guide. I want to test it to see if I can report that it's a "good one" but I don't yet know what sort of objective test can be used to prove it to everyone's satisfaction.

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Originally Posted by lordsmurf View Post
Burst Electronics is terrible, so double-no. ...I would trust Burst about as much as I'd trust Sima -- that is to say, not at all.
Good enough condemnation for me!

Quote:
Originally Posted by lordsmurf View Post
I don't know that I've ever claimed the composite Cypress was as good as a DataVideo, though composite in/out would match pretty closely. And potentially better, subjectively. Also depending on source tapes.
It's on one of your sales threads. I don't want to put words into your mouth, but it appears that's what you're saying here:

For sale: TBC-1000, TBC-3000, green AVT-8710
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07-08-2020, 03:51 PM
Formica Formica is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hodgey View Post
It will depend on the capture device used. Most capture devices have pretty mediocre Y/C separation, the Diamond VC500 and other dongles based on the same hardware in particular. ATI AIW cards (not ATi 600 USB), and some of the newer pcie capture cards have 3D Y/C filters that can do a pretty good job. The Y/C device you linked only lists a "2H Digital adaptive comb filter", that's not really any better than most capture cards have, most DVD-recorders have way more advanced Y/C separation than that.

If you already have the ES15 in the chain you can usually capture just fine straight from it's output, the video it outputs is already digitized and converted back to a stable analog signal. The expections being if it detects copy protection and re-adds it to the output (and the capture device doesn't deal well with it), or if there are longer tape sections with no video signal The Panasonic DVRs have a habit of turning off the output if they think there is no signal on the selected input, at least for PAL I've only found it to trigger if there are sections recorded to a tape with no video input on the VCR, tape sections that have not been recorded to at all output enough noise to avoid it, and a built-in VCR TBC may also prevent this.
Thanks for that! I will be capturing to either a Matrox MX02 card, or an older AJA Kona card.
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