Quantcast VHS transfer usage of TBC & frame sync combo? - digitalFAQ Forum
  #1  
10-07-2020, 11:38 PM
Dewster Dewster is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: East Tennessee
Posts: 1
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I'm tasked with transferring about 175 VHS and Hi8 tapes of first gen content to digital using my trusty Hauppauge 1265 card. I don't have a fancy SVHS VTR to use, but I do have a decent higher end JVC VHS/DVD recorder. It has S-video and composite RCA outputs from the VHS side. No mention of it having an internal line TBC. But for capturing, frame sync seems higher priority than image clean-up to keep a capture card happy. There's a DPS-220 TBC/Frame Sync available locally that apparently can be used in TBC mode or Sync mode (frame sync, I'm assuming) via a front panel switch. I can also get a For.A FA-300 TBC locally for image cleanup (says it also has DOC feature - does that require an external device's assistance?). I'm aware that these pizza box broadcast pieces can have worn out caps, and I can recap the things if necessary.

I got an idea to try this equipment flow:
VCR -> DPS-220 in "sync" mode -> FA-300 TBC -> Hauppauge HVR-1265

Would this combo of two TBCs (DPS in Sync mode) achieve the desired frame sync to please the capture card AND do a little image correction with the For.A? And, is an external genlock piece needed for multiple devices if there is only one initial video input?

Thanks for any suggestions. Glad to finally join here - and the info on this forum has helped tremendously with past projects.
Reply With Quote
Someday, 12:01 PM
admin's Avatar
Ads / Sponsors
 
Join Date: ∞
Posts: 42
Thanks: ∞
Thanked 42 Times in 42 Posts
  #2  
10-08-2020, 03:24 AM
latreche34 latreche34 is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: USA
Posts: 2,203
Thanked 377 Times in 346 Posts
TBC's don't cleanup the image, they fix timing errors. Line TBC and DNR inside a VCR do cleanup the image which your VCR lacks. You don't want the FA-300 anyway, it samples at 8 bit 4:1:1 bellow capturing standards. But both are frame synchronizers and you will have 4 times the conversion from analog to digital and vise versa, not good.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
10-08-2020, 07:57 AM
dpalomaki dpalomaki is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: VA
Posts: 1,428
Thanked 324 Times in 282 Posts
Gen lock and Frame Sync are used to bring two separate sources such as cameras and VTR outputs to a common time base, and not needed with one source. An external TBC generally is often needed with analog tape, and only one is needed. Putting two in series adds no benefit and could cause problems.

If they are available locally to you see if you could give them a test before you buy.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
10-08-2020, 01:28 PM
lordsmurf's Avatar
lordsmurf lordsmurf is offline
Site Staff | Video
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 11,762
Thanked 2,149 Times in 1,849 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dewster View Post
I don't have a fancy SVHS VTR to use,
There's nothing "fancy" about a good deck.

Quote:
but I do have a decent higher end JVC VHS/DVD recorder.
Which exact model?
Lots of consumer-end VHS JVC VCRs are really bad. Only the pro/prosumer decks are good.
Very similar to Panasonic: junk consumer decks, nice pro decks.

Quote:
But for capturing, frame sync seems higher priority than image clean-up to keep a capture card happy.
Not "frame sync", but "frame sync TBC". Not the same.

- Line/frield TBC mostly cleans the visuals/image, some signal cleaning.
- Frame TBC mostly cleans the signal, some visual/image cleaning.
- You need both.

Quote:
There's a DPS-220 TBC/Frame Sync
Garbage. Broadcaster rackmount units were not designed for VHS sources. Those will choke.

Quote:
For.A FA-300 TBC locally for image cleanup
No. It lacks line/field, and is just another rackmount frame unit.

Quote:
(says it also has DOC feature - does that require an external device's assistance?).
This is a worthless feature. DOC (dropout compensation) was for pro end sources like U-matic, which lacks DOC internally. VHS/S-VHS VCRs already have DOC.

Quote:
I'm aware that these pizza box broadcast pieces can have worn out caps, and I can recap the things if necessary.
Probably. But caps isn't the issue.

Quote:
I got an idea to try this equipment flow:
VCR -> DPS-220 in "sync" mode -> FA-300 TBC -> Hauppauge HVR-1265
That's not a workflow. The main issue here is the TBCs will clash. I'm actually curious which of those units is worse, and I'm betting the FA-300 is.

Quote:
is an external genlock piece needed for multiple devices if there is only one initial video input?
As mentioned, genlock is for syncing external separate sources for broadcasting.

Quote:
Thanks for any suggestions. Glad to finally join here - and the info on this forum has helped tremendously with past projects.
Glad to hear it.

VHS conversion has a recipe: VCR/camera > TBC > capture card
But not any VCR, any camera, any TBC, any captures card. Specific models know for quality, which have the features needed to do a quality. (Not just "quality" either, but a job at all. The wrong gear = no conversion whatsoever.)

Better gear = less headaches. Whatever money you think you'll save will be spent in lost time. Lots of people just give up, because it's not cooperating with their cheap gear.

Quote:
Originally Posted by latreche34 View Post
TBC's don't cleanup the image, they fix timing errors. Line TBC and DNR inside a VCR do cleanup the image which your VCR lacks.
This is actually correct, technically.
TBCs fix timing errors.
- The byproduct of line/field based correction = image cleaning.
- The byproduct of frame is signal correction, which thus appease capture cards.
- And again, you need both.

Quote:
You don't want the FA-300 anyway, it samples at 8 bit 4:1:1
Gah! I didn't even notice that. Yuck!

Quote:
Originally Posted by dpalomaki View Post
Putting two in series adds no benefit and could cause problems.
In general, 1st TBC wins, 2nd does nothing.
That refers ONLY to like TBC (frame>frame, or line>line) and NOT complementary (line>frame)

Quote:
If they are available locally to you see if you could give them a test before you buy.
Nah, with the gear being mentioned here, total waste of time. Many people have already tried this. Between 2010 and 2015, I went through many rackmount TBCs. The only unit that was actually decent was the I.Den IVT-7, and it was fussy. It was actually made to (begrudgingly?) accept consumer sources, not just broadcast, and comes near the end of manufacture of rackmounts TBC.

- Did my advice help you? Then become a Premium Member and support this site.
- For sale in the marketplace: TBCs, workflows, capture cards, VCRs
Reply With Quote
Reply




Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Frame sync, Time Base Correctors Ralpphilz Restore, Filter, Improve Quality 0 02-22-2020 11:30 PM
New vs. old aWarpSharp2 usage? stevevid Restore, Filter, Improve Quality 5 09-23-2018 09:17 PM
Old VHS-C tapes transfer jitter, blue frame issues? Courtica Restore, Filter, Improve Quality 19 09-01-2014 04:04 PM
Changed frame rate, now have audio sync problems? rand107 Encode, Convert for streaming 1 07-29-2014 08:08 AM
Panasonic ES10 units for sale! (frame sync filtering!) lordsmurf Restore, Filter, Improve Quality 0 08-28-2009 03:30 AM

Thread Tools



 
All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:04 PM