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  #1  
01-01-2021, 08:08 PM
bbmaster123 bbmaster123 is offline
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Hi everyone,
I'm planning a project to transfer personal vhs tapes to lossless before they degrade any further. I would estimate around 30-40 tapes in total. Most of these are 2nd gen, dumped from an old kyocera camcorder sometime in the 90s. I believe the same cassette was used over and over, with copies being made to save the video each time. That said, some tapes look better than others in terms of picture quality and playback, so I believe different methods were used at different times.

So far, I've been researching and putting together a capture chain. I had a gaming capture setup which I used to test some tapes, but as it only offers lossy ~11mbps mp4 with 4:2:0 color, I started looking for a lossless capture solution.

Here is my chain so far:
- JVC S9500U - working flawless, s-video out
- DVD passthrough - tried s-video out and component out, both work
- HDPVR2 GE - produces no dropped frames or loss of sync, but only offers lossy capture
- WinXP box - Dual core i3 3rd gen, sata ssd boot drive, sata 6tb capture drive, 8gb ddr3, asus xonar dx

now I also have these AIW parts:
- AIW x600 pro pcie - dead, full cable bundle
- AIW 2006 pcie - working, no cable bundle
- AIW usb - cousin has an old one I can borrow indefinitely, assuming it still works

Would it be possible to follow a pinout diagram along with a bit of soldering to convert the output cable from the x600 to be compatible with AIW 2006? If not, would anyone recommend looking for either the cable I'm missing for 2006, or for a replacement x600? Should I just use the AIW usb?

If it gets me better end results, I'm not opposed to spending a bit more, though tracking these things down is also tough, so many different variant parts, gets confusing fast.

I guess I'm just looking for a bit of input really, I haven't made any further decisions yet. Just what really kills me is in one of the tapes I will be transferring, is footage of my dads old AIW 9600 AGP box on display with the card working! Why didn't we keep that??!

thanks for any advice
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  #2  
01-01-2021, 09:31 PM
latreche34 latreche34 is online now
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Why don't you try the AIW USB first and see how it goes, Make sure the VCR is in edit mode, turn OSD off and TBC ON. Use cables 3 feet or less.

Can you post pictures of the connectors and the pinout of the two PCIe cards?
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  #3  
01-02-2021, 11:54 AM
bbmaster123 bbmaster123 is offline
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Thanks for the reply,

I've attached pics. The AIW 2006 is at my dads at the moment, so in the meantime I grabbed an identical card from google. As you can see, socket is the same, but pinout is apparently different.

I will have a chance to pick up both the 2006 AIW and the AIW usb most likely next weekend.

On my unit, I can either set EDIT on with no TBC/DNR or EDIT off but with TBC/DNR. OSD is off. Cables are short and appear high quality.

Upon close inspection of my dead x600, I see an smd resistor over the pcie contacts had been ripped off, probably why it doesn't initialize, what a shame


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File Type: jpg 1388-i-o.jpg (53.6 KB, 14 downloads)
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  #4  
01-02-2021, 01:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bbmaster123 View Post
Hi everyone,
I'm planning a project to transfer personal vhs tapes to lossless before they degrade any further. I would estimate around 30-40 tapes in total.
Standard workflow, VCR > TBC > capture card

Quote:
Most of these are 2nd gen,
Quality VCR and TBCs become even more important.

Quote:
I believe the same cassette was used over and over,
Ouch. Further quality hits, and TBC/VCR is more important than ever now.

Quote:
I had a gaming capture setup which I used to test some tapes, but as it only offers lossy ~11mbps mp4
Nope, yuck, wrong tool. Fine for capturing video games, not VHS tapes.

Quote:
Here is my chain so far:
- JVC S9500U - working flawless, s-video out
Nice.

Quote:
- DVD passthrough - tried s-video out and component out, both work
What is this? svideo>component is NOT suggested (harmful image processing)

Quote:
- HDPVR2 GE - produces no dropped frames or loss of sync, but only offers lossy capture
Nope. Don't use that either.

Quote:
- WinXP box - Dual core i3 3rd gen, sata ssd boot drive, sata 6tb capture drive, 8gb ddr3, asus xonar dx
Watch XP and SSD, no TRIM, leads to issues.

Quote:
now I also have these AIW parts:
- AIW x600 pro pcie - dead, full cable bundle
The cable has value, even if the card is gone. Those cables are getting harder to find, somebody here will want it. Do not trash or recycle it.

Quote:
- AIW 2006 pcie - working, no cable bundle
Most cable bundles have the PC output, so card totally worthless without the right bundle.

Quote:
- AIW usb - cousin has an old one I can borrow indefinitely, assuming it still works
Which one? There's actual 2-3 models, only last is good. (Attach image of it.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by latreche34 View Post
Make sure the VCR is in edit mode,
NORM/AUTO picture mode usually looks best, remove chroma noise.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bbmaster123 View Post
Upon close inspection of my dead x600, I see an smd resistor over the pcie contacts had been ripped off, probably why it doesn't initialize, what a shame
I have a 9600XT catch fire in a system once, board scorched. Thankfully nothing else damaged (that I remember). It wasn't assemble, not even cased yet, still test benching it. So be glad it was bad before plugging in!

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  #5  
01-02-2021, 02:03 PM
latreche34 latreche34 is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bbmaster123 View Post
Thanks for the reply,

I've attached pics. The AIW 2006 is at my dads at the moment, so in the meantime I grabbed an identical card from google. As you can see, socket is the same, but pinout is apparently different.(
I don't think they have different pin location, they may have a different pin count (less or more), Say S-Video in has the same pin location on both cards but one may have component in, in the other the pins are disabled, I don't think the manufacturer would just flip the pins location on the same product family, First it is not economical in terms of manufacturing, second may lead to a lot of warranty claims due to using the wrong cable on the wrong card. So I'm pretty confident the cable breakout should work just fine and I do believe that both cards have S-Video and stereo audio inputs which is all what you ever need for capturing analog video.
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  #6  
01-02-2021, 02:26 PM
bbmaster123 bbmaster123 is offline
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I appreciate the reply LS, and happy new year

Quote:
Which one? There's actual 2-3 models, only last is good. (Attach image of it.)
As it's not in hand at the moment, I've attached the AIW usb I meant, but from google.
It has the power and usb cables, but I have not tested that it is still in working condition yet. Let me know if I need to look for a particular part number, but I know for sure it looks the same as the attached image.

Quote:
Nope, yuck, wrong tool. Fine for capturing video games, not VHS tapes.
Regarding my current setup, I was only making some tests clips, and immediately noticed lossless wasn't an option. I mean, I probably wouldn't say yuk to my test clip, but I can clearly see it's been compressed and I want better. Hence started my research into better capture devices.

Quote:
What is this? svideo>component is NOT suggested (harmful image processing)
I have a dvd recorder that I'm using as passthrough, and it has s-video out, component out, and hdmi out (I have HDCP stripper). Since my current chain includes a gaming capture device, it has a component and hdmi input. To me (and I'm still young enough to have 20/20 vision ) S-video and component looked the same/super similar, hdmi looked MUCH worse, like it had already been compressed to mpeg before even being sent over hdmi. Worse than composite

I would think s-video --> component would involve a digital conversion, but maybe my unit does that in the analog domain? Either way, I can still just use s-video in --> s-video out no problem.

Quote:
The cable has value, even if the card is gone. Those cables are getting harder to find, somebody here will want it. Do not trash or recycle it.
I'll keep the cables around just in case someone here needs them. I mean, if its that rare, I probably shouldn't risk destroying it. Should I put it up on the marketplace? what's a fair selling price?

Quote:
Watch XP and SSD, no TRIM, leads to issues.
Good point about the ssd and trim, totally forgot about that. I can swap it no problem though if I need to, I have 8-10 unused sata HDDs.

Quote:
I have a 9600XT catch fire in a system once, board scorched. Thankfully nothing else damaged (that I remember). It wasn't assemble, not even cased yet, still test benching it. So be glad it was bad before plugging in!
I had a similar thing happen with a DDR2 ramstick, caught fire. Strangely still worked fine, but scared the poop out of 11 year old me aha
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  #7  
01-02-2021, 03:15 PM
bbmaster123 bbmaster123 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by latreche34 View Post
I don't think they have different pin location, they may have a different pin count (less or more), Say S-Video in has the same pin location on both cards but one may have component in, in the other the pins are disabled, I don't think the manufacturer would just flip the pins location on the same product family, First it is not economical in terms of manufacturing, second may lead to a lot of warranty claims due to using the wrong cable on the wrong card. So I'm pretty confident the cable breakout should work just fine and I do believe that both cards have S-Video and stereo audio inputs which is all what you ever need for capturing analog video.
I read elsewhere on this forum that this is the case, same socket with different pinout, and lots of people having issues with the cable not working. Maybe I'm wrong, but that's how I understand it right now. There are definitely many similar looking variants of each part though, the cards themselves, the breakout cables and input boxes. I would think lots of people mixed incorrect parts and had issues.

I am a bit of a tinkerer, so I will probably try it anyway just to see.
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  #8  
01-02-2021, 03:54 PM
latreche34 latreche34 is online now
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If you know the pinout of the model you have a simple pin test with an ohmmeter on the breakout cable ends will confirm which pin is which, If the S-Video/Audio pins match use if not try to fix the original card, maybe it's just that cap that lifted off.
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  #9  
01-02-2021, 04:12 PM
bbmaster123 bbmaster123 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by latreche34 View Post
If you know the pinout of the model you have a simple pin test with an ohmmeter on the breakout cable ends will confirm which pin is which
Unfortunately I don't have an ohmmeter, never used one before. I also don't know the pinout of either model, but I do know how to solder wires well enough, as long as they're not too tiny.

Quote:
If the S-Video/Audio pins match use if not try to fix the original card, maybe it's just that cap that lifted off.
That probably is the reason, but again its too tiny for me to solder a new one on, I would just end up destroying the card. I have other dead cards I could probably take one from, but I just don't have the right tools for that particular job.

but thanks for you input!

Guess there's not much I can do then, eh? In the meantime, I also have some miniDV cassettes to transfer, so I'll start on that until I can pickup the AIW usb

EDIT: Just out of curiosity, how would you (or anyone else who would like to add to this) rank these capture devices between the x600 pro, 2006, and aiw usb for lossless capture?

Last edited by bbmaster123; 01-02-2021 at 04:25 PM.
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  #10  
01-02-2021, 06:58 PM
latreche34 latreche34 is online now
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It's hard to distinguish a lossless capture from another lossless capture, What you really worry about is how the cards handle VHS signal in terms of signal stability that's what's important, Some cards said to have different luma levels but I haven't used that many cards to be able to make a judgment on certain brands/models.
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  #11  
01-02-2021, 09:12 PM
bbmaster123 bbmaster123 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by latreche34 View Post
It's hard to distinguish a lossless capture from another lossless capture, What you really worry about is how the cards handle VHS signal in terms of signal stability that's what's important, Some cards said to have different luma levels but I haven't used that many cards to be able to make a judgment on certain brands/models.
Fair enough.

I don't see why the signal should be unstable though, my test clips came out perfectly aside from being compressed. Maybe that's because its an encoder, not a raw capture device? Or maybe my particular vcr puts out a relatively good signal, and that plus passthrough works well in this case?

anyway, I guess I'll just have to wait and test to find out. Will post back later with sample pics/vids
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  #12  
01-03-2021, 06:01 AM
pcourtney pcourtney is offline
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search ebay for ATI Purple - Item Number 224146365540 $8 USD

https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/...e-breakout-box


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  #13  
01-03-2021, 11:05 AM
latreche34 latreche34 is online now
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He already posted pictures, his are square plug not round. So no that is not the right plug.
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  #14  
01-03-2021, 11:34 AM
pcourtney pcourtney is offline
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yes - he needs two connections, the small square one, as per picture 1
and the Purple breakout - picture 2 as per picture 2

the card on it own without connections - just in case anybody is interested - pic 3


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File Type: png ATI 2006 Block.png (599.6 KB, 6 downloads)
File Type: jpg ATI Purple Breakout Box.JPG (13.9 KB, 4 downloads)
File Type: png ATI 2006 PCI Connectors.png (138.6 KB, 3 downloads)
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  #15  
01-03-2021, 11:40 AM
BW37 BW37 is offline
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He needs both the correct "silver stab" connector as discussed here: ATI X600Pro, X800XT, X800XL silver stab connectors?

and the purple or correct (input) domino connector cable/breakout.

See also here and here for further good discussions about the various connection requirements/options for the various PCIe AIWs. These are fairly long reads and include some confusing information, but if you go through it all, together they provide lots of good info.
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  #16  
01-03-2021, 11:49 AM
pcourtney pcourtney is offline
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they are very cheap to buy in Europe - approx $5 USD

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Adapter-f...MAAOSwl95bwPIG
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  #17  
01-03-2021, 12:14 PM
BW37 BW37 is offline
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I wanted to buy one of those just to see what connectors it has opposite the square connector, but Covid shipping restrictions kept me from getting one to try with an (NTSC) AIW x600 pro I picked up cheaply. If you dig around long enough for old AIW reviews, you'll come to realize that ATI made at least 4 different versions of the "silver stab" connectors, at least one of which included a SCART output connector. I'd be leery of the 800 VE connector working with any North American market card, but it might be worth a try at that price.

BTW, I cannot find a old review of the x800 VE.

BW37
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01-03-2021, 12:38 PM
pcourtney pcourtney is offline
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VE is "Very Extra Special"

The All-In-Wonder X800 VE was a graphics card by ATI, launched in April 2005. Built on the 130 nm process, and based on the R420 graphics processor, in its R420 AIW variant, the card supports DirectX 9.0b.

Since All-In-Wonder X800 VE does not support DirectX 11 or DirectX 12, it might not be able to run all the latest games. The R420 graphics processor is an average sized chip with a die area of 281 mm˛ and 160 million transistors. It features 8 pixel shaders and 6 vertex shaders, 8 texture mapping units, and 8 ROPs. Due to the lack of unified shaders you will not be able to run recent games at all (which require unified shader/DX10+ support).

ATI has paired 256 MB GDDR3 memory with the All-In-Wonder X800 VE, which are connected using a 256-bit memory interface. The GPU is operating at a frequency of 425 MHz, memory is running at 400 MHz.

Being a single-slot card, the ATI All-In-Wonder X800 VE does not require any additional power connector. Display outputs include: 1x DVI. All-In-Wonder X800 VE is connected to the rest of the system using an AGP 8x interface.

https://askgeek.io/en/gpus/vs/ATI_Al...on-X800-VE-AGP

AGP better than PCIe
https://www.gpuzoo.com/Compare/ATI_R...n_X800_XT_AGP/

https://www.techpowerup.com/gpu-spec...-x800-ve.c1912
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  #19  
01-03-2021, 12:52 PM
latreche34 latreche34 is online now
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I think the OP is interested more in the inputs rather than the outputs since he is getting it for capturing analog video.
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  #20  
01-03-2021, 01:19 PM
bbmaster123 bbmaster123 is offline
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Quote:
I think the OP is interested more in the inputs rather than the outputs since he is getting it for capturing analog video.
correct, output is of no concern to me

Quote:
Originally Posted by BW37 View Post
He needs both the correct "silver stab" connector as discussed here: ATI X600Pro, X800XT, X800XL silver stab connectors?

and the purple or correct (input) domino connector cable/breakout.

See also here and here for further good discussions about the various connection requirements/options for the various PCIe AIWs. These are fairly long reads and include some confusing information, but if you go through it all, together they provide lots of good info.
Ah thank you, those were good reads - like you said, lots of good info!
Looks like I have the 300D cable that has 2 RF connectors, and I would need the 700G cable, which has VGA.

Quote:
I mean, I remember I used to want to game on that card, but these days I have a 2080 ti for that lol

Regarding the VE card (Very European? haha) - while that is a low price, I don't just expect something designed for PAL would just be compatible with NTSC, if it worked I'd consider myself lucky.
I'm not lucky.

Although that said, I was searching around this morning for anything I could find locally, and someone has recently put up a full x600 pro aiw pcie package with all the cables and packaging for $60 CAD - thinking of jumping on that, even if it means I have 2x silver stabs and 4x input/output boxes.
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