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  #21  
02-25-2021, 06:28 PM
latreche34 latreche34 is offline
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I think you should start using what you got right know at least you get to practice a little bit, try all combinations don't get intimidated by our advices, analog capture is full of surprises, what you were advised may not work for your case or for some tapes, so try different combination of workflows and stick with what works, this is not exact science, it's a trial and error process and you'll only know what's better by practice.
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  #22  
02-25-2021, 06:41 PM
DetroitPaula DetroitPaula is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by latreche34 View Post
I think you should start using what you got right know at least you get to practice a little bit, try all combinations don't get intimidated by our advices, analog capture is full of surprises, what you were advised may not work for your case or for some tapes, so try different combination of workflows and stick with what works, this is not exact science, it's a trial and error process and you'll only know what's better by practice.
I think you could be onto something here!

I will file a progress report soon!
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  #23  
02-26-2021, 08:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DetroitPaula View Post
I think you could be onto something here!
I will file a progress report soon!
Yes, stated that some posts ago.

JVC > FA TBC > ADVC on Mac
Do that for now. You have all of it there, and some understanding of what you're doing.

Quality will not best, due to DV.
But quality will be far better than what you've been getting in the past. And that may be enough.

Report back!

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  #24  
02-26-2021, 08:13 PM
DetroitPaula DetroitPaula is offline
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Just a little update and a question:

I decided to do the JVC-->TBC-->ADVC-300 starting with a VHS tape not taken by me but just something one of my kids was given at the end of his senior year. I thought he might like to see it again now that he has graduated 20 years ago from high school. In other words quality doesn't matter to me and required no editing on my part. Kind of a good practice run. It basically was a slideshow to music and the quality was not there probably because the yearbook committee didn't exactly have high tech back in 2002.

One thing that sort of stumped me was the whole thing of using the computer's hard drive to process the incoming movie and then putting on the external hard drive. To me this process was not all that user friendly on my Mac. Most likely because I don't think I have ever tried to do a copy and paste with two drives and one app. I was unable to have both drives open in their respective iMovie application. I just wanted to drag from one drive to the other and that did not work. I had to copy the movie to the desktop then move it into the external hard drive. Is it because the external hard drive needs the main hard drive's app?
This all probably sounds confusing but in any event the process took longer and I am hoping I am not losing data. God forbid I lose more data after all this. I have currently about 500 GB free on hard drive. I am planning to delete from hard drive every time I complete a movie.

The other question I had on the JVC. The on button is green and the TBC button is red. Just wanted to verify that means TBC is on.

Project Report Filed!
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  #25  
02-26-2021, 08:22 PM
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If you attempt to capture directly to external drives, bad things can happen. Not just video problems, but computer crashing problems. Mac OS is a bit better with truer sustained, but still not foolproof. Feel free to try it. Anybody using Windows shouldn't even try.

DV is only 13gb/hour, really compressed, so it may be fine directly over Firewire/Thunderbolt. The format was made to work with slow IDE drives in 90s.

TBC light = on
no TBC light = off

Do you have the remote, remember to adjust settings? If questions, post.

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  #26  
02-26-2021, 09:24 PM
bookemdano bookemdano is offline
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RE: the issue copying movies from drive to drive: iMovie "helpfully" maintains everything inside a single "iMovie Library" file. If you open up the Finder > Go menu > Home > Movies, you should see it there.

There is a trick to view what's inside if you feel like it. Once you've navigated to the iMovie Library file, right click on it and choose "Show package contents". It will open up as if it was a folder. You should see your iMovie project names in there, and if you drill down a bit you should see your movies.

Thinking about this, it may be problematic to do as LordSmurf suggested and capture to the internal drive and then move them to the external. Because iMovie requires everything to be within its database file, and that database file has to exist on a single drive, it would just get too discombobulated I think.

So it may be better to:

1. Quit iMovie
2. Plug in your external drive
3. Open the finder and go to your iMovie library file as I explained above
4. Drag and drop the entire iMovie Library file to your external drive
5. After it's done copying, reopen iMovie
6. Go to the File Menu > Open Library > Other
7. In the box that comes up choose Locate, then browse to your external drive and double-click on the iMovie Library located there.
8. It should appear in the box. Click on it to select it and click the "Choose" button.

That should do it. You should see the existing movie you captured in there.

After you do that, you may want to delete the one that's in your internal drive just so there isn't any confusion as to which library you're viewing/saving to.

From that point on, your entire iMovie library, including all captured movies will exist only on the external drive. I highly recommend that periodically you plug in one of the other external drives also and copy your iMovie library to it, so that you have a backup. Hard drives can and do go bad, and sometimes you get no warning when they do so.

Hope that helps! iMovie will run a bit slower when the library is on a hard drive (your Mac Pro's internal drive is an SSD which is much faster), but ultimately I think this will likely be an easier workflow.
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  #27  
02-27-2021, 04:26 PM
DetroitPaula DetroitPaula is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lordsmurf View Post
If you attempt to capture directly to external drives, bad things can happen. Not just video problems, but computer crashing problems. Mac OS is a bit better with truer sustained, but still not foolproof. Feel free to try it. Anybody using Windows shouldn't even try..
In previous years it all was getting captured on the external hard drive. So I am going to try bookemdano's workflow idea and see if this makes the process smoother.


Quote:
Originally Posted by lordsmurf View Post
TBC light = on
no TBC light = off

Do you have the remote, remember to adjust settings? If questions, post.
Ok so TBC light is red and it is on and yes I did adjust all the settings via remote.

-- merged --

bookemdano, I have a 20 year old football VHS probably something the high school team put together. Even though my son basically sat on the bench he still would love to to see it. So for this VHS tape I am going to try your method. I just need to get a flow here because I am all over the map.

I never used iMovie till this project. I am a photo buff so I like doing slideshows with music. Though I do use movie snippets every now and then. I have used FotoMagico for many years. FotoMagico is very intuitive. This iMovie has one too many areas for me, like events, projects, movies and thus I have some trial and error going on here too!
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  #28  
02-27-2021, 04:56 PM
bookemdano bookemdano is offline
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Oh! I guess I thought you were already familiar with iMovie (bad assumption on my part--you never actually stated that).

For the record, I agree with you. I find it really unintuitive.

Unfortunately, on the Mac there aren't a lot of choices for transferring DV. Aside from iMovie, Apple has a professional NLE (non-linear editor) called Final Cut Pro, but it's a very similar workflow to iMovie and costs a few hundred bucks.

I can't personally vouch for this app, and I think it's overpriced, but I have seen it mentioned as an alternative for folks who just want an app dedicated to dumping the DV from their camcorders (or your Canopus box). So if you find iMovie to be too aggravating for that purpose, you could consider LifeFlix: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/lifefl...30212114?mt=12

However, ultimately I think you said you would like to edit these movies, and you really need an NLE to do that kind of job. And that leads you back to iMovie, Final Cut Pro, or something like Adobe Premiere.

One advantage of LifeFlix is that it should just produce capture files that you can easily shuttle around, rather than iMovie and FCP that want to contain everything into a database. But $100 for a single purpose app when you already have iMovie--hard to justify the cost in my book.

What you may want to consider doing is look around for instruction on iMovie. Depending on your learning style you could go with books, paid video tutorials (like Lynda.com) or free content on YouTube. Maybe if you saw a capture demonstrated (or had a list of steps to follow) you'd feel more comfortable with just using iMovie.
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  #29  
02-27-2021, 05:41 PM
DetroitPaula DetroitPaula is offline
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Hi back at you bookemdano,

I have used iMovie and made about 15 edited videos from the application. The problem is I am not sure I know what I am doing in terms of saving stuff properly.

I want to save the full VHS DV all of it the best I can in one spot in a nice column in order.

Then I want to dissect that long two hour boring thing down to some interesting 7 to 15 minute stories.

I then one to keep both.

I just want that original full length unedited DV intact on a external drive and available if I ever want to look at the whole thing again though I probably won't but just in case. Then I feel safe throwing out the VHS tapes.

The movie that I make from the DV I am putting on another external hard drive as finished products.

Right now I have Events and Movies. Are the Events the captured DV? Is a captured DV viewable like a movie or do you have to make the whole captured DV into a movie and then save that thing.

See if you can figure out what is my problem.

Maybe that app for $100 will help? I just want moveable things to organize them on the external hard drives accordingly.

-- merged --

I just reviewed the LifeFix and it feels like it does have my name on it. You are right $100 seems like a lot but it would save me time. Do you think it compromises quality in any way?
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  #30  
02-27-2021, 10:06 PM
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LifeFlix looks interesting, but "Video8, Hi8" is misleading. False.
DV and Digital8 only.

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  #31  
02-27-2021, 11:45 PM
bookemdano bookemdano is offline
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LordSmurf - Yeah I agree that it's misleading for them to mention Video8 and Hi8.

But yeah, the reviews on the App Store seem pretty decent overall, so it may be just what you're looking for Paula. I saw in one of the reviews a mention of a free trial that lets you transfer one tape, so I would do that to make sure it works for you. The catch is that you have to download it from their web site rather than the Mac App Store link I posted before (unfortunately, Apple in their infinite stubbornness has never made a provision for trials of apps, so developers who want to offer them have to do it themselves).

Here's the link: https://www.lifeflix.com/products/lifeflix-free

Should be pretty straightforward to download and install it. It says they don't ask for any payment info, so the trial should be 100% free. You can try transferring the football tape and see how it goes. If it works well and you like the process then you can buy it either directly from them or go back to the App Store and buy it there.

The video quality will be exactly the same as if you transferred it with iMovie. The Canopus box is actually what produces the DV video 1s and 0s--iMovie or LifeFlix are just two different ways to copy those 1s and 0s over to your Mac. Just make sure in LifeFlix when you're importing that you do not check the box that says "Convert to HD". That will compress your footage to h264, which is a good codec for sharing but a bad one for archiving. You can convert the files later when you're editing them down. As long as you don't use the "Convert to HD" function in LifeFlix, your captures will stay in the DV codec the Canopus box created them in.

Looks like they have some video tutorials on their site, so you could watch those if you want to see a demonstration of the importing process.
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  #32  
02-28-2021, 05:46 PM
DetroitPaula DetroitPaula is offline
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Good Afternoon!

Here is a little progress report.

Decided to take the plunge and get the LifeFlix last night. By the way, whenever I get a new app I always think about the time spent by the developers picking the right name and icon. Last night was no different. So the team thought yes, LifeFlix capturing your life for a flick. haha

I did see the free trial option on the developer's website but decided that Apple will just give me my money back if disaster strikes so I went with it. Well, to be honest it was a very rough go with about 5 FORCE QUITS of the app. I had that lovely spinning wheel of death a few times and I felt like the app was not recognizing the ADVC-300. I sent the developers an inquiry last night to see if this was an issue because it is not a camera. So far no response.

After sending an inquiry to the developers of LifeFlix I decided to go back to using iMovie on the external drive just like old times for the football VHS tape. It worked out ok but like you all say with a poorly shot tape 20 years ago what can one really expect in terms of quality. Also as I stated before with the tapes other people took and gave to my kids I am not going to work hard on and just go with the "as is" policy.

This afternoon, I decided to go back to the LifeFlix and it worked like a charm. I imported Football Tape #2 a Varsity Football tape which according to my son was done with better "stuff" than that first one I did which was the JV team the year before. I used the LifeFlix route and made sure not to check the HD box and I went with the uncompressed option. It is interesting LifeFlix does not allow sound during the process. Kind of quiet and a bit disconcerting because one is not sure if the sound is ok. But I did it.

So the tape starts out wonderful because as my son later told me the Varsity football tapes are better than the JV ones like I did yesterday. It looked really darn good in the beginning. Then it looks like as the football season went on they had poor camera days. There was a center horizontal line flicker about every other highlight especially the ones that were long distance shots. I decided to do an experiment and take the middle TBC out and just go JVC to ADVC-300 for the exact same Football #2 tape. I then ran both movies one with the middle TBC and one without side by side for an in-house poll and the participants were not told why I was asking for their opinions. I gave no guidance except to ask them which movie looked better to them.

Results
Daughter an animator/storyboard artist chose the movie with the external TBC because she thought the resolution was better
Husband a general surgeon picked the one without the TBC because he thought the movie was brighter
Me I felt the resolution felt the same but the one without the TBC had more realistic and brighter color.

So there ya have it. I am going to save the one with the TBC but if anyone has suggestions about why one might be brighter I am all here for it.

Tomorrow I am going to work on a workflow for the organization of these DVs on external drives and import Football #2 movie into iMovie to see how that works though I am not editing.

Over and out and I hope everyone had a pretty good week-end.
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  #33  
02-28-2021, 07:20 PM
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The reason for the frame TBC is to purify the signal. NOT using it will likely lead to dropped/repeated frames, and audio sync loss. You may not notice it now, but you probably will during a full viewing.

All items in a workflow have some % of process noise. Others can actually fix invalid levels/properties from other items in the workflow. So, for example, while the color may be "bright", that may be a bad thing. The VCR can output illegal levels/values, and the TBC may be correcting it.

Now, that said, this TBC have the ability to tweak chroma and luma. Get a screwdriver, and slower tweak the front panel controls to your liking. Just realize that you may like bad levels. But it's possible to do. In fact, you can pump color even more, make it brighter. I calibrate gear, but you can break the calibration if you want (as it can always be put back).

So do NOT take the TBC out of the chain. Just compensate.

The ADVC also has value tweaks, a proc amp, if you don't want to mess with the TBC calibrations.

Resolution should be the same.

I am curious to see actual sample clips. And comparison clips would be great here as well. For example, have you ever calibrated the computer monitor? Because you NEVER want to miscalibrate video to a miscalibrated monitor! We could help you with that. My monitors are calibrated (and recalibrated, as values can drift as monitors age).

At very least, does that JVC improve quality?

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  #34  
03-10-2021, 05:49 PM
DetroitPaula DetroitPaula is offline
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Hello Friends,

Latest Update:

I ditched the LifeFlix app. I asked for my money back and thru their Apple Support system I did get the refund. I just felt it wasn't giving me anything more than importing straight to iMovie. Yes, one did get files but too many files, files of lists, files of thumbnails, actual files and quite frankly I just decided to go back to what I know and that is iMovie.

Next, I decided to just keep importing to the External Hard Drive. I am not having problems right now so it just makes life easier for me because my computer is 1TB and I would have to do a lot of copying, pasting and then deleting. I just decided to keep with what is working that is, using the 12T external drive. Now, if someone says I am absolutely decreasing quality I will go to using the computer's hard drive and moving the imported data over to the external hard drive iMovie Library but it is way more work.

I am not going to lie I do envy all of you with the perfect setup capturing the best with a PC, Windows OS and the best capture cards. I kind of feel guilty every time I read posts that the DV I am making has lost whatever and is second rate. I had to make a call and at least finish this thing before I leave this world.

Heck, I shared the two football movies with my one son via YouTube and he got all mushy talking about being a part of that team 20 years ago so I do have that going for me.

QUESTION:

Is there any way I can improve resolution of import? Right now it is 640X480. Is that all there is my friends?

Also when I go to export a project out of iMovie if given the option does changing it to 720 help or hurt it? Most of the time iMovie is not allowing me any upgrades from the 640X480 but a few times it did and I can't seem to figure it out.

I guess I need a bit of a tutor session on resolution.

As always THANK YOU!
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  #35  
03-10-2021, 06:51 PM
bookemdano bookemdano is offline
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First of all there is absolutely no qualitative difference between capturing to your Mac's internal drive or your 12TB drive. The only potential issue is data loss if the external drive gets disconnected (but it's very low probability so long as the drive's cables are firmly plugged in and your house's power stays on). I think the main downside is that the external drive will be slower than your internal drive, but as long as you're not finding the speeds intolerable you can keep on keepin' on.

Also, don't fret that you're not doing a lossless capture. That way involves a ton more time, money and expertise. And quite honestly, diminishing returns is a big factor. Doing it the way you're doing it is getting you 80-90%. Even the best capture methods and filtering can't overcome the inherent low resolution of VHS tape. Yes, there are ways to make it a *bit* better, but fundamentally it's still crappy old VHS--nothing will change that.

And fact is, there is a charm to old school video. I mean if I could wave a magic wand and transform my old childhood tapes into 4K high def I'm not sure I would. Those videos (which I have watched probably a hundred times over the years) in all their crappy quality are an artifact of the time in which they were so lovingly created. Trying to make them *not* look like what they are seems sort of phony to me. I mean of course you want the video/audio to be in sync and you want them to look like what you remember. But the method you are using largely does just that.

As you found out, your family is there for the actual memories, not a 1080p re-creation of them.

But if you aren't ready to completely close the door on improving the quality, you can use the tactic I took with my family's old film--save the originals. Pack'em up into a big plastic crate and store them somewhere out of the way in the basement, assuming you have a basement They will be completely fine, and that way you can hold onto the idea of doing them again in better quality, while knowing that you probably won't.

To answer your question... No. VHS isn't even 640x480 resolution to begin with. If you try to enlarge it to HD or something you just end up magnifying its underlying flaws (sorta like when you try to pinch to zoom using your phone's camera--it looks pretty bad because the detail just isn't there to zoom into).

You can export as 720p from iMovie if you want to, but that just burns in black bars on the sides, since 720p is a widescreen format (16x9) but VHS is a 4x3 format. I would just leave it as 480p. People can still make it "full screen" on YouTube if they want to. It won't look any worse than if you export it as 720p and they full-screen it. VHS just lacks sufficient resolution to get any extra detail out of it.
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  #36  
03-10-2021, 07:38 PM
DetroitPaula DetroitPaula is offline
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WOW bookemdano you must be an amazing person in real life. Some how or other you always seem to have a very comforting and informative reply. In this messed up world I find people like you a godsend. You have been immensely helpful with just words. Imagine that!

Ok and now you are gonna laugh really hard. Oh probably about 15 years ago I bought those nice plastic VHS cases. Put all 40 or so of my VHSs in those cases. I restarted this project about December 2020. So I am 5 tapes into it, 2 Football, 2 Home Videos, and one kid's senior year in photos from the high school. I pitched every completed caseless tape into a box with a DONE sticker on them. I then carefully put the plastic cases in another box to sell one day on FaceBook marketplace for probably $5 haha. While importing a tape today I started reading more forums and threads feeling guilty again about settling for DV. I must of read half dozen very entertaining threads on this issue! lordsmurf always in the mix haha. The guilt was so strong I took the videos out of the pitch box and put them back in the nice plastic cases. Yep even before your suggestion tonight I was already dreaming of that day.

OH AND I HAVE A HUGE BASEMENT!
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  #37  
03-10-2021, 08:46 PM
bookemdano bookemdano is offline
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Very kind of you to say Paula. I think you and I are probably kindred spirits... I can really relate to the agony of wanting it to be perfect--even knowing that no one else in the family really cares (at least they don't care nearly as much as I do). Not sure if I admitted it in an earlier post but I did a DV transfer of all my old Video8 and VHS tapes seven years ago and it's been gnawing at me ever since that I didn't use better tools and methods (they were certainly available back then, and for cheaper than they are now!) So the past few months I've been acquiring way too much gear in preparation to do it all over again. I'm enjoying the process though, and I have every expectation that my results will be better this time around.

One big difference though--I was using a pretty crappy low-end Sony VHS VCR in my first go-round. So there was a lot of chroma noise and timing errors that got baked into my transfers. At least you've got an excellent VCR with both line and frame TBCs. Those will go a long way to cleaning things up and getting you a stable capture.

Loved the anecdote about the fancy plastic tape cases. Totally something I would do
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  #38  
03-11-2021, 01:26 AM
latreche34 latreche34 is offline
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Analog video is always captured at 720x480 for NTSC and 720x576 for PAL/SECAM, If your captures are anything but the above you are doing something wrong.
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  #39  
03-11-2021, 01:40 AM
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For you, I think the most important aspect here was that JVC S-VHS VCR with line TBC (better image quality), and the frame TBC (to ensure a problem-free capture).

For you, this DV setup seems to be doing what's needed.
NOTE: I'm not anti-DV -- as long as you see/understand the chroma quality reductions that are happening, and are fine with it -- as it's one of the only viable workflows for Mac. Past OS X had some fungibles with Videoglide and specific ATI 600 clones, but that's really it. Mac is just not a capture platform. And I say that as a satisified Mac Mini owner.

As mentioned, external HDD is about data loss. You probably have a somewhat bleeding-edge system, as certain combinations of hardware have reduced that risk in recent years. If it's working, then it's working! (I envy you.)

640x480 is a common Mac limitation. But it's fine. The actual resolve of the source is 300x480 max. 640 is a 4x3 AR.

When prepping for upload, you need to properly mask overscan (not crop) and deinterlace. There is a Mac version of Hybrid (freeware) that you should really look into. https://www.selur.de/downloads

@bookemdano: Too many people dismiss VHS is crappy. It's really not. Analog formats can look quite good, if captured and processed correctly. I don't accept the idea that SD (thus VHS) is crappy simply because of resolution. HD and 4K can look crappy if captured and processed wrong. I used to review Blu-ray releases, and I had to be brutal at times (and it always pissed off the studios, all they wanted was cheerleaders, not actual reviews).

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  #40  
03-11-2021, 02:38 AM
latreche34 latreche34 is offline
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Shoot, I forgot about mac being limited to 640x480, This really sucks for PAL being 720x576, So the vertical resolution has to be downsized to 480 from 576. NTSC should be fine.
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