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  #1  
12-11-2021, 09:39 AM
tcampbell011 tcampbell011 is offline
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TL-DR - Would it be worth adding a S-VHS VCR given my equipment? or would it be a waste of money?

This is my first post. I've read around for a few weeks now. I'm just another one of those DIYers looking to digitize my family's old home videos.

I want to send it to a professional but we have over 100 tapes (35 VHC-C, 35 mini DV, 35 VHS). It is not worth over 1k to us. However it is worth about $300-400 if we can figure it out.

The quality doesn't matter as long as faces can be seen and audio can be heard (according to everyone in my family). Its more about documentation than re-living the experiences. Plus we are going to send a pro anything we want in better quality.... but something in me really wants to get the best quality I can for my equipment.. and I feel like I'm close to having hardware that gets OK captures.

My day job is an IT guy so I feel pretty comfortable with a lot of the computer stuff. I feel like I already have most of the components but I only have the old family VCR... should I upgrade or would I even notice?

and I know everyone ALWAYS asks this.. but isn't there some option that is under $400 for an S-VHS VCR? I have googled the models from all the lists here just to try and find an inexpensive one but its been a losing battle. It would really help if avg prices were posted next to the VCRs in those stickys... being an IT guy its pretty baffling that old hardware can hold its value like that. Surely there were some budget S-VHSs that would work with my budget set up.

Here is the workflow I am thinking now (I already have these components):

MiniDV Camcorder <firewire> Firewire PCI card on WinXP

GE VG4230A VCR <component> DMR-ES10 <svideo> AIW 9600 AGP on WinXP


It seems like everyone says GE VCRs are bad quality. Do you think I would notice much of a difference getting an S-VHS VCR instead? I know using s-video is always better.... Anything else I have wrong? I haven't started yet... just planning... and I have no idea what I'm doing.
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  #2  
12-11-2021, 10:47 AM
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lordsmurf lordsmurf is offline
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The most important part of a workflow is the VCR, where the signal starts. (It's all important, quality capture card, and TBC required.)

In terms of pricing, referring to the gear, remember: buy it, use it, resell it. It holds value. So, in that light, you could buy a deck for $1k, and resell it for a good % of the investment. (Some people even profit from it, sold for more than they bought it!) But condition matters, and certain lineages (ie, who you got it from) matters. You can't just buy random decks from eBay, not even the ridiculous "tested" and "working" decks (as those are rarely working correctly, and the "tests" are nonsense).

S-VHS decks are not just about TBC (aka "looking good"), but stability of signal extraction. Your average $50 crappy VCR from 20 years ago (ie, that GE), from the bottom of the closet, cannot come close.

Non-TBC JVC S-VHS VCRs are certainly under $400.

ES10 > AIW is nice, that can work.
A non-TBC JVC like the 3800, 4800, 59xx, 29xx, should be fine. But again, condition matters.

Yes, you'll notice. Obvious. Hit upside the head with a shovel obvious.

Note that ES10 is a not a TBC, nor true TBC replacement. It can work, but will have a fail rate. It may fair better on perfect SP tapes from a quality home camcorder, but then again sometimes not. Not that your idea of "quality" and actual quality (the signal, not visuals) may not match. That said, better than nothing, ES10/15 is about as minimalist as it gets.

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- For sale in the marketplace: TBCs, workflows, capture cards, VCRs
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  #3  
12-11-2021, 12:31 PM
tcampbell011 tcampbell011 is offline
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Thanks for the reply. Those models numbers will definitely help. Any suggestions how how to evaluate an ebay listing for a VCR? Maybe I should go back and look at the sticky post.

When I was starting this project I found an ES10 for $30 on Facebook marketplace so I decided what the heck since I see it mentioned everywhere. I spent $40 on the AIW card... I guess I feel like adding a $1k VCR would be dumb when all my other equipment is low end. (also part of me wants to keep the gear and help out a few friends/coworkers)

Do you think I could just throw in a $1k VCR to my current set up? I'm thinking if I did that I would need other upgrades... probably would take out the ES10... and then would I need an external TBC? even though there would be one built into the VCR? Something about vertical and horizontal timing I might have read? I've read so many posts I think I'm getting them mixed up lol

At this point what I am thinking is... spend another $100 and get one of those JVC models you recommended so I can get S-Video from the source. Then I would only have about $170-200 sunk into this project and sounds like I will get "viewable" results . It sounds like past this, upping the quality is a question of $500+ (which I cannot justify, even if I can re-sell it). My budget for this project is about $300 so I don't think there is anything else useful I could get and stay under budget (but if you can think of something...)

I'll do a few videos and compare them to a pro service. So many of them are just sports or something dumb, I can't pay $1k to have a pro do them all. We might find that all of them are videos we don't even care about.
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  #4  
12-11-2021, 12:40 PM
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lordsmurf lordsmurf is offline
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Not all TBCs are the same:
- ES10 = strong+crippled line TBC, with non-TBC frame sync
- JVC VCR with TBC = solid line TBC
- external TBC (DataVideo/Cypress type) = framesync TBC (not line)

line = fixes visuals, image
frame = fixes signal
You need both.

AIW is good card, not cheap.
ES10 is nice to have, but has negative quality-reducing side effect (mostly visual). Suggested to only use it when net gain, not as always-on TBC "replacement" (not really repalcement).

$100 will not buy a good JVC deck, at least 2x-3x that for a good condition unit. $100 is low-end gambling. Your $300 budge will land the non-TBC JVC. Then JVC non-TBC > ES10 > capture card.

You won't find a pro that does 100+ videos for only $1k. That's the budget for low-end crapola work like LegacyBox (the Walmart of video conversion).

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  #5  
12-11-2021, 12:58 PM
tcampbell011 tcampbell011 is offline
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So based on that, it does sound like I would want an external TBC if I went with a JVC TBC VCR because the VCR TBC would only do line while the external TBC would do frame.

For the $100 figure I meant one of the non-TBC JVCs you suggested. A quick ebay search looks like I can find one of those for around $100 (like the JVC-3800) and it would have s-video. I think that is the only way to stay near my budget, the next step up is over $1k (VCR + External TBC).

One unrelated question about the MiniDV side of things. Since the video is digital already can I just plug the camcorder into my computer via fireware and access the video already as file? (I'm sure that is too easy lol). I am assuming since it is still on a tape I will have to start and stop the tape and use capture software. Someone gave me a "broken" Sony camcorder where everything works but the touch screen (which is required to play/stop videos). I'm wondering if I will be able to use it.

Also thank you for the replies. LegacyBox is exactly who we got the quote from lol. Sounds like its a service you offer too? Are you still doing that? If so maybe I can get some more info? It will be awhile (2mo?) but I will be needing someone to send a few (5?) tapes to.
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  #6  
12-11-2021, 01:14 PM
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lordsmurf lordsmurf is offline
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Don't try to find the cheapest deck on eBay. You'll waste lots of time. Find a quality deck. For example, physical appearance can be a tell-tale. That's not foolproof, but generally true. Dust is another. You have to ask questions, such as non-smoking, and does the person know the lineage. Most eBay sellers are recyclers, and wouldn't know a VCR from a toaster.

Ask me again in 2 months. I'm on a hiatus right now, family and health.

You're still not seeing it
- ideal workflow = JVC with line TBC > frame TBC > capture card
- ideal with lesser VCR = JVC non-TBC > ES10 as line TBC > frame TBC > capture card
- not ideal, perhaps passable = JVC non-TBC > ES10 as line, puny frame non-TBC frame sync > capture card

You should read in-depth reviews (ACTUAL reviews, not that paid shill blogger junk) on how bad LegacyBox looks/sounds, and how often they lose or ruin customer tapes. It's disgusting what they do.

- Did my advice help you? Then become a Premium Member and support this site.
- For sale in the marketplace: TBCs, workflows, capture cards, VCRs
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  #7  
12-11-2021, 01:30 PM
tcampbell011 tcampbell011 is offline
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I think it's making more sense now. The ES10 does line OK, but barely does frame. If I had the money I would do better getting a frame TBC first... then if I had more money I would get a JVC with a line TBC and take out the ES10. Unfortunately it looks like both are out of my price range.

I will have to try the lowest quality workflow due to my budget: JVC non-TBC > ES10 > capture card

On to searching for a VCR! Thank you so much!

Edit: is there a professional service that you recommend in your absence?
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  #8  
12-11-2021, 02:41 PM
latreche34 latreche34 is offline
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I would say start with a good VCR (S-Video out and LTBC) and test capture, If the need for a frame TBC arises find out what tapes need it and do the math between getting one or sending those particular tapes out, LS does the capturing business here.

Some tips that help you getting stable captures:
- Capture to an internal HDD, SSD is preferred.
- Capture small segments, If you capture a two hour tape in one go chances are you will get out of sync audio without frame TBC.
- Capture lossless AVI, don't encode or de-interlace on the fly, leave those tasks for later when you are not capturing or do them on a different computer.
- Don't run other applications while capturing
- Disconnect USB peripherals that can take up USB bandwidth or DC power.
- Practice a lot before you start capturing to familiarize yourself with the settings, A lot of things can be missed and you find out later when you are watching the capture. Remember capturing is not transferring a file, it's a setup that takes a lot of time and patience.

https://www.youtube.com/@Capturing-Memories/videos
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