Go Back    Forum > Digital Video > Video Project Help > Project Planning, Workflows

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #21  
05-26-2022, 02:00 PM
FinnTape79 FinnTape79 is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2021
Location: Finland
Posts: 41
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
AND ONE NEW THING TO THIS DISCUSSION: Is the VHS sound more wide are more bright? It goes all way up to 20kHz compared to youtube AAC "saving" faking compression. See attached picture VHS_vs_YOUTUBE_AAC.png. I capture 48.000Hz PCM (CD-quality and over).

[QUOTE=lollo2;84958]The second capture is bad, and many even+odd fields show the "weird" pattern (hum bars?)
A possible solution here: https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/...-how-to-remove
[END OF LOLLO2's quote]

Good findings. It is tricky that these "wondering lines" error lines seems even more visible in the latter half. It isn't there visible all the time. Depends on the scene and movement. May be even camera specific. Seems like some signal transmission error/interference. It may be NTSC -> PAL transformation. Maybe this was a live TV forecast back in 1983. Even in Queen Wembley 1986 you'll see some parts with wondering lines. If the error occurs continuously I could assume it is due to my own equipment like recorder, tuning of the channel. If it was winter, some snow in the air (in Finland it snows during the winter - sometimes heavily). Those wondering lines occur in certain changes. It may be the original: Live in the Regal Theatre 1983... Those days all kinds of weird interferences were common. Good 'ol 50Hz humm etc.

Other source of the same concert: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ob-G...qmYIaLDb1kM-_g
Those wondering lines are there at the times like mine... So the interference seems to be a FEATURE in that show's multicam production. May be one or two cameras and some others cleaner. Dunno.


Attached Images
File Type: png VHS_vs_YOUTUBE_AAC.png (116.0 KB, 8 downloads)
Attached Files
File Type: avi ThinLizzy_lines_wondering_lines_longer_x264.avi (84.65 MB, 3 downloads)
Reply With Quote
Someday, 12:01 PM
admin's Avatar
Ads / Sponsors
 
Join Date: ∞
Posts: 42
Thanks: ∞
Thanked 42 Times in 42 Posts
  #22  
05-26-2022, 04:12 PM
latreche34 latreche34 is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: USA
Posts: 3,257
Thanked 537 Times in 497 Posts
If you upload 480p to youtube it will butcher your video, Upscale to 1440x1080p and upload. Also if you encode and upload it adds an extra layer of quality loss, Uploading lossless AVI HuffYUV takes longer but gives the best quality since there is only one time encoding by youtube.

https://www.youtube.com/@Capturing-Memories/videos

Last edited by latreche34; 05-26-2022 at 04:23 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
05-28-2022, 04:18 PM
FinnTape79 FinnTape79 is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2021
Location: Finland
Posts: 41
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Genesis Shipwrecked: https://youtu.be/gnlMs3tYbnY

Opinions: This time Vevo Youtube colors are vivid but the detail is overly softened mush. They have stretched it to 16:9 so my original 4:3 is bad to compare 1:1... And my version has more halo in the bright edges. It may be the VHS player, cables are normal quality. They shouldn't cause double vision etc. Seems like a color isn't in the right spot between the black & white information. That rainbowing Cnr2 function is also used. Not using it for every video.

Again stuff. So the capture card is HP SkyHawk H789 based on Conexant and some CX23888 variable. Here is Genesis capture and conversion. This time the main functions were:

Cnr2(mode="oxx", scdthr=10.0, ln=35, lm=192, un=47, um=255, vn=47, vm=255, log=false, sceneChroma=false)
QTGMC (Preset="Slow")
TemporalDegrain2(degrainTR=2,postFFT=0)
TTempSmooth(maxr=4, strength=5, lthresh=6, cthresh=6, lmdiff=8, cmdiff=10)
dfttest(sigma=1, tbsize=1)

Slight smiley curve EQ added. Some +1.5dB <60Hz low and +1dB some highs...

Last edited by FinnTape79; 05-28-2022 at 04:30 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
05-28-2022, 09:02 PM
latreche34 latreche34 is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: USA
Posts: 3,257
Thanked 537 Times in 497 Posts
The aspect ratio is totally wrong on that video clip linked above.

https://www.youtube.com/@Capturing-Memories/videos
Reply With Quote
  #25  
05-29-2022, 04:06 AM
lollo2 lollo2 is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Italy
Posts: 673
Thanked 189 Times in 163 Posts
TemporalDegrain2 and TTempSmooth are somehow equivalent. In general, only 1 of them is needed.

If really needed, for a spatial denoise after a temporal denoise you can use KNLMeansCL instead of dfttest, inside TD2 with option postFFT=4, or in standalone if you want full control of its parameters.

A channel on S-VHS / VHS capture and AviSynth restoration https://bit.ly/3mHWbkN
Reply With Quote
  #26  
06-28-2022, 02:00 PM
FinnTape79 FinnTape79 is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2021
Location: Finland
Posts: 41
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Here's the latest from my archive... The wondering lines were in the TV broadcast. Best details on the Youtube by now... 480p is so poor. This is upscaled with Shotcut. Just put 1440x1080 in and 16:9 aspect ratio. Video itself is 4:3

https://youtu.be/8cmJlmjsyDc

Thin Lizzy's Holy War. It seems to be mono. Broadcast was stereo because the Rock theme intro had discrete Left/Right sounds... 1983.
Reply With Quote
  #27  
06-28-2022, 04:06 PM
latreche34 latreche34 is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: USA
Posts: 3,257
Thanked 537 Times in 497 Posts
Your aspect ratio is wrong, Skinny people. If you don't want to do the math for 16:9 ratio with added black pillars the easiest way is to crop to 704 and resize to 1440, the proportions will work themselves out.

https://www.youtube.com/@Capturing-Memories/videos
Reply With Quote
  #28  
08-02-2022, 09:35 PM
Lemonjello Lemonjello is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2021
Posts: 2
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Thanks for this thread and sharing the processes of your transfers. I think we will find in the future, digitalization of “broadcast copies” like these will prove to be very useful reference for future restorations by archivists of the artists or other rights holders.
As an audio engineer and archivist myself, we often find many different edits/versions of the same item, but rarely does the box say “this is the one that was used”. With audio, we can track down the original vinyl/digital disc and compare, but quite hard with music for TV broadcast unless someone has a tape of an original broadcast. Not to mention youtube audio filters making personal transfers hard to find.

If I could pass you a couple of thoughts about your audio capture....
You can change the buffersize on your Tascam ADC, it’s located somewhere in the “audio device settings” or the Tascam’s utility app. Since your audio is ahead of the video by a known amount, increasing the buffer by (i think you said) 150ms will line it up, making your workflow lighter.

I also recommend capturing the audio at 24bit (or 32bit float) even if you still plan on the final rendering to be 16bit. Why? Each time you process the audio (even if it’s a simple volume boast or fade) the file gets processed as 32bit float (or 64bit float depending on the plugin). This is because the math involved in the processing has more options. The bit often won’t land exactly on one of the 65536 points 16bit has to offer, so it’s rounded to the nearest bit. So with each process or conversion, you eliminate the rounding errors by keeping the file 32bit floating until the end (and make it a smaller issue with 24bit).
The differences may not be as noticeable on all devices, but it does make a difference once it’s pointed out pretty much anybody. Plus you never have to concern yourself about another transfer years later.
To put it another way, think of what your video would look like if the AVI file HAD to get encoded each time you had to perform a process, then converted back to AVI. The effects are different, but the point is information is lost after being digitized at 16bit.

I’ll also add from my experience as well as fellow mastering engineers, capturing at your end-products sample rate (this case 48k) will give you the best results. That saves the extra process of sample-rate conversation. Of course there’s exceptions to every rule, but that’s an explanation for another thread.

Hope that was helpful and made sense.
Cheers,
Jake
Reply With Quote
The following users thank Lemonjello for this useful post: RobustReviews (08-02-2022)
  #29  
08-02-2022, 11:51 PM
latreche34 latreche34 is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: USA
Posts: 3,257
Thanked 537 Times in 497 Posts
All my captures are studio standard 24bit/48KHz, It gets down sampled to 16bit during encoding to the final playback format.

https://www.youtube.com/@Capturing-Memories/videos
Reply With Quote
  #30  
08-03-2022, 01:29 PM
Lemonjello Lemonjello is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2021
Posts: 2
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Splendid! Sorry if I missed if you stated that.
Keep up the good work!

Cheers,
Jake
Reply With Quote
  #31  
08-06-2022, 04:10 PM
FinnTape79 FinnTape79 is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2021
Location: Finland
Posts: 41
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
This hippie ballad is the latest conversion. No i've tried to put it to 16:9 frame with 4:3 scale...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B5e2SfW4qXU

That tape had some poor transmission (hissing etc). It was taken via satellite dish during a winter most likely... Snow in the air. Sound had a bit cracles and over volume feel (dynamics suffered). I replaced the sound with studio version and it synced 1:1 with the VHS. One 40ms move had to be done in the 02:00 spot.

Enjoy. Soon i'll come up with a question on my other project. At the moment my FS-90EG S-VHS decks are useless. Needs repair. JVC HR-J638E eats tape. So I had a very little used consumer level Panasonic NV-HV61 which is used on that Julian Lennon capture. Still going with low level consumer stuff :-(
Reply With Quote
  #32  
08-26-2022, 01:00 PM
FinnTape79 FinnTape79 is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2021
Location: Finland
Posts: 41
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Thin Lizzy "Live at Regal -83" is out there now. No copyright or anything on this. This wouldn't be released without DigitalFAQ help... My Panasonic NV-FS90EG is broken so I captured this through JVC HR-J638E which is in good condition... Althought it broke down also. Eat tapes and don't eject. Cut in two pieces one of my old tapes.. So it seems the other side is rolling and the other is braking. Maybe the tape is stuck and don't move...

Here it is, the release this Thin Lizzy at Regal Theater 1983 full concert with slight boost for sound:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xN3bagNl01c

Julian Lennon with post added CD quality sound:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B5e2SfW4qXU

THERE'S one artificial intelligence release HD upscale on this. It has errors. Cars in the beginning have "ghost car outlines" between to real cars. The lines are very sharp like drawn on it. The ai seems to work very badly on that amateur release. So compare this to the original 144p which is super awful blocky lego s****. Mine has some tracking glitches and flagging lines at the moments but still more resolution than original.


Shola Ama with replaced CD FLAC studio track over the fuzzy and awful original video sound:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3LA-Pwhc6Fw

SEE THE GLASS object is there. In the official release they burned out the "brighter upper end" color gradient slide. See the proof JPG attached to this. SO THIS PROVES: Keep your own VHS recordings from satellite etc. music channels if they're from 1990 - 2000 stereo era. The stuff they put Youtube can be damaged. Over brighten and destroying the color palette.... bs amateurs. Look for pro Betacam etc full resolution re-relase with proper HD upscale... But old music won't make money so they just put them there - with random quality.


Reply With Quote
  #33  
08-26-2022, 01:35 PM
traal traal is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 393
Thanked 74 Times in 67 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by FinnTape79 View Post
Julian Lennon with post added CD quality sound:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B5e2SfW4qXU

THERE'S one artificial intelligence release HD upscale on this. It has errors. Cars in the beginning have "ghost car outlines" between to real cars. The lines are very sharp like drawn on it. The ai seems to work very badly on that amateur release. So compare this to the original 144p which is super awful blocky lego s****. Mine has some tracking glitches and flagging lines at the moments but still more resolution than original.
I think you're referring to this AI upscale. I agree, the AI upscaling looks terrible. Also the judder is horrible, it's unwatchable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FinnTape79 View Post
Shola Ama with replaced CD FLAC studio track over the fuzzy and awful original video sound:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3LA-Pwhc6Fw

SEE THE GLASS object is there. In the official release they burned out the "brighter upper end" color gradient slide. See the proof JPG attached to this.
Nice catch! Also yours has less digital noise than that one, it looks like they uploaded a really low bitrate video.
Reply With Quote
  #34  
08-26-2022, 02:23 PM
FinnTape79 FinnTape79 is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2021
Location: Finland
Posts: 41
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by traal View Post
I think you're referring to this AI upscale. I agree, the AI upscaling looks terrible. Also the judder is horrible, it's unwatchable.

Nice catch! Also yours has less digital noise than that one, it looks like they uploaded a really low bitrate video.
Based on what I've learned here (what is excellent, medium or poor), I don't rate that upload of mine as very good. It goes into the category of mediocre. Still, if mine is mediocre, Shola Ama's official release is poorly rated.

My version would be even more noise-free, but I made it a goal to imitate the color chart of the official publication. The color manipulation lifted noise levels. Also the "device in the middle as picture corrector" - Panasonic DMR-ES10 changes the palette somewhat (like the brightest white level gets darker etc), so I used Shotcut's Color Grading filter's three controls (Shadows, Midtones (Gamma), Highlits (Gain) and the color temperature adjustment to get the same color saturation. The VCR was originally a mid-level home device that recorded it in 1997. JVC HR-J638E , whose image drum is in good condition. So mine isn't pro in any level.

I'm more surprised by how bad the quality is in the official releases when it comes to video from the standard definition era. Shola Ama wasn't an artist who reached multi-platinum sales, so there probably wasn't a big budget left for the restoration. I guess the same goes for Julian Lennon. It's ridiculous that a home video enthusiast would dare to exceed the quality level of the official release. I thought the official releases were broadcast level, i.e. Betacam SP or similar, i.e. even more than 500 lines, cf. VHS about 200. Part of the sense of sharpness (in VHS restoration) comes from these sharpening filters and that extra resolution is an illusion and no real additional information

Now it's a pity that I didn't save more videos from the SD era when satellite TV was available. All standard youtube soundtracks are also cut to 16khz level. The sound is bad too.

I left a notice on a sales site: If you can find stereo music videos from the 90s from the above mentioned channels on VHS, please contact me...
Reply With Quote
  #35  
08-27-2022, 07:09 AM
FinnTape79 FinnTape79 is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2021
Location: Finland
Posts: 41
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mqWKcx2sDKw

The black level in the original capture is not 100% black. Little bit grayish overall "black bottom" so I tried to manipulate higher end of the color brightness... Those doubling edges are annoying. I have 3 of my 5 decks somehow broken at the moment... Did capture with black line generator Panasonic NV-FS90EG and it has also that edge problem (S-Video all the connections)

So my post in capture/enhance section is still relevant. Seems to me like colors are little bit offset. Maybe the black information is also somehow doubling lines and other sharp edges. Especially in the high brightness scenes.

See my post HUFFYUV samples (capture, enhance section of the forum)
Reply With Quote
Reply




Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Youtube no longer recognizing 960 x 720 videos as HD, is there a fix? Cvatik Encode, Convert for streaming 3 08-22-2020 12:12 AM
Background music for YouTube videos? mattminaj Videography: Cameras, TVs and Players 11 01-08-2019 08:45 PM
Help deciding on equipment to digitize VHS home videos? Amanjm Capture, Record, Transfer 8 01-12-2018 02:18 PM
How to get good quality restoring Youtube videos? ciccioschumacher Restore, Filter, Improve Quality 24 10-04-2017 11:56 AM
Videos on Youtube - how do they look? Quality critique! fuzzblaster Encode, Convert for streaming 1 12-09-2010 07:03 PM

Thread Tools



 
All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:16 AM