Quantcast Setting up a VHS > Digital conversion rig - digitalFAQ Forum
  #1  
06-01-2011, 08:38 AM
guokamoli guokamoli is offline
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This thread was created as a spinoff to the "off topic" discussion that started to evolve at Dual Layer Taiyo Yuden Dvds (inkjet printable), Where to buy?.

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crap
We can say crap on these forums? Awesome!

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Eh, it'll get the job done.
(RE: my Canopus ADVC110, $400is worth of monster cables, and my canon printer)
What did you mean by this statement exactly? Is this equipment sufficient, or overkill?

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A computer is a computer, more or less.
Aye, I know...but I already owned this laptop. Didnt buy it specifically for this project, so that makes it ok

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Mistake. You really should get an IPS type monitor, not the cheap TN type monitors.
(RE: my cheap Benq monitor).
Probably not a 'mistake' as such. it was something that I also aquired about a year ago, with no relation to this project. To be exact, this monitor is a BenQ G920WL (http://www.justmonitors.com.au/fpg920wl.htm). After this conversation though, I'll take what you said into account and research a new monitor...just as soon as I get some money.

...I'm poor

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Just don't get your priorities mixed up:
Content, disc quality (good blanks, good presses), menu, case, disc art -- IN THAT ORDER!
That was sort of my intention. I was aiming for the same order of priorities, but with an additional priority of researching reliable dvd cases for my product. Was gonna insert that priority between disc quality and menu.

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The costs of ink and printer maintenance, if creating truly professional quality full-color image labels, will destroy profit margins significantly.
lol, tell me about it. I had no idea how much a thermal printer was actually worth until very recently, amongst all of my research

I'm just after a printing solution to meet a...'standard' in presentation. Will probably still utilise a full colour printout on each disc using my canon multifunction, but I will likely 'not' be covering the entire disc surface. I was aiming for a print with just enough info to identify the disc, without looking shonky

If I wanted a professional label, I would have gone with thermal solutions.

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Note that we never blemish customer discs with our logos, contact info, etc. These are paid pieces, not our advertising materials. Few companies seem to have much respect for their customers, in this way. In addition to scarring up the disc/case artwork, some go as far as placing logos before/during/after the videos! How horrible, shameless, tacky and amateur. Don't be one of those. If you do a good job, they'll remember who you are without all that destruction.
Now I'm glad that you bought this up. My original intention was to include a company logo and website address on the bottom left/right corner on the 'back' of the DVD cover. You dont think this is a viable option?



...I originally said that I was going to split this discussion up into seperate topics...sorry about that :/

Last edited by guokamoli; 06-01-2011 at 08:47 AM. Reason: Accidentally credited klmedia for these posts instead of admin :P
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  #2  
06-01-2011, 08:46 AM
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The Canopus ADVC line is an overhyped DV box. It's compressed video, and you would generally do better with lossless or uncompressed YUY2 capturing. At least with PAL, you don't have the 4:1:1 overcompression of the colorspace as NTSC has. PAL sticks to 4:2:0, which is not as bad. Again, it works, it does its purpose. Once homemade shaky videos, however, you may see compression blocks that will only get worse once converted to MPEG-2 for DVD-Video. It's almost better to use a really high bitrate (broadcast 25-50mbps, or even sub-broadcast 15-20mbps) MPEG-2, or again the lossless/uncompressed AVI options.

LG IPS 23" example: http://www.rpmcomputing.com.au/store...4046&shopref=2
Or 22" http://penta.com.au/index.php?main_p...utm_medium=cpc
(Comparable to USA prices at Amazon.)

I'd still suggest calligraphy. I learned it when I was about 10.

I think a small logo/info on back bottom is fine. We'll sometimes do this, when the client selects house templated DVD covers. However, when somebody wants to pay for a custom case, they tend to go full scale with it, submitting all the proper non-video artwork sources, rough sketch ideas, etc. That brings up another point -- if you don't have the proper sources for a good case, skip it. I often see DVD case artwork that looks to have been made in Microsoft Word, using Times (or worse -- COMIC SANS!!!), instead of Photoshop, InDesign or Illustrator (as art should be done).

I think I'll have to add "shonky" to my vocabulary. It fits up there with "hinky".

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  #3  
06-01-2011, 08:58 AM
guokamoli guokamoli is offline
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The Canopus ADVC line is an overhyped DV box.
I see. Well...I understand that this unit will be able to get the job done, but what alternative would you recommend for this task?
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  #4  
06-01-2011, 09:18 AM
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That would depend on budget, and the types of tapes you expect to get. Only VHS? Maybe others?
ATI, Blackmagic, Aja, Matrox, Hauppauge, Canopus, Elgato -- each others various solutions.

For crummy homemade VHS, for example, it's hard to overlook the advantages of specific ATI hardware.

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EDIT: Language is an entity all unto itself...

Crap, craptastic, crappy -- these are really not very offensive, no. Duly avoided when possible, but quite appropriate when used with moderation, and other words simply cannot convey the point effectively enough. (Soft language like "inferior" or "not very good" simply does not have the punch needed when something is truly "crap".) I'm also quite fond of British slang -- knob, bollocks, yob. As a non-Brit, it's just not seen as offensive here. It's actually quite amusing. Inversely, people here would get completely bent out of shape to the unoffensive "smoke a fag" (not knowing that "fag" = "cigarette" in British English, and that the non-offensive British version predates the offensive American version by well more than 100 years). While we keep this site professional, it shall not become sterilized in vocabulary.

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  #5  
06-01-2011, 09:41 AM
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Also, to add to the above.

Monster branded cables are good, though pricey. Sometimes undeservedly so. There are a number of non-namebrand wires that works just as well, sometimes even better. With wires, it really comes down to the quality of materials, and the effectiveness of the shielding. Monster is good, though not essential. Of course, that also depends on where you are, and what other options you may have access to. I do know Australia and New Zealand have smaller selections of certain things. (I may not be down in the land of Oz, but am pretty decently versed in that market for video/photo gear, as well as the PAL technology it's built on. I'm with you in spirit!)

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  #6  
06-01-2011, 08:16 PM
NJRoadfan NJRoadfan is offline
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Regarding the monitor, it may be best to find a nice PAL CRT for previewing video. Pro monitors are best because they allow for adjustment, but they can be hard to find in decent shape (most have many hours on the tube, burn-in, etc.). The video was produced with CRTs in mind and they are usually cheaper then LCDs. One nice thing about PAL is that color correction is built into the standard, so one doesn't need to adjust tint/hue like use NTSC folks have to. The downside is PAL monitors usually don't have a tint control, so they can be hard to adjust if the monitor's color representation has drifted due to damage/age.

For work product, I usually use standard DVDs and leave a note to not use a sticky label on the disc. Case covers are very basic, usually I just put what the original tape was labelled and/or a date range of the video if it was provided. I leave the back of the case blank so the person can scribble their own notes for their reference. The discs themselves have no menus, just chapter breaks every 5 minutes. Its simple and idiot proof, some people even prefer it over a menu (just insert and play, like a good old VHS). I only edit out gaps between recordings and for MiniDV recordings, I dump the tape time code to a subtitle track. The only other service I provided was basic tape repair; I have a few tapes that the leader broke off the reel (easy fix), but one was a real basket case where the tape somehow became creased and then flipped over for the last 15 minutes of the tape. The creased part was mostly salvaged (about 1/3 of the screen was lost for about 5 minutes), but the tape turned out pretty good in the end.

I can tell you from doing my own family videos that organizing and laying out clips along with doing menus is A LOT of work. Most of the work went into a spreadsheet log of all the clips (start,end points, source files, etc.) This is standard operating procedure for pros during the post production phase of a project, but it is time consuming. No way would I have been able to do that for the last "customer"* I had, besides he would have had to have viewed close to three dozen tapes and identify each event (if he could remember!). The fact is, people will be more then happy to see their memories again. This matters more in the end then pretty artwork on the disc or a fancy menu.

*Note: He wasn't a customer in an official sense. I was asked if I could do it and decided to say yes. It was mainly in exchange for other services and to recoup the costs for the equipment I bought to do my home movies last year. Once people find out that you can do transfers to DVD, watch out, everyone will be pulling out the family movies asking for them to be done.
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06-02-2011, 02:11 AM
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Quote:
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Regarding the monitor, it may be best to find a nice PAL CRT for previewing video.
I read an article earlier this year (in a broadcast industry publication) that discussed this topic. It stated that while many people online still say CRT is best, facilities largely favor LCD now. The technology has matured not only to the level of CRT, but arguably surpassed it in accuracy of detail and color. If I can find that piece, I'll scan and share. Not sure if I ripped out and saved the article.

For color accuracy and good depth, I know I prefer an S-IPS LCD.

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  #8  
06-02-2011, 11:37 AM
guokamoli guokamoli is offline
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That would depend on budget, and the types of tapes you expect to get. Only VHS? Maybe others?
At the moment, my objective is to convert VHS and Betamax. In the future (only on the cards. Might not even happen), I might increase my rig to support film conversions (8mm and whatnot). While it might hurt, money is not an option...unless hardware starts to cost over $1000

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While we keep this site professional, it shall not become sterilized in vocabulary.
interesting 0


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Once people find out that you can do transfers to DVD, watch out, everyone will be pulling out the family movies asking for them to be done.
I most certainly hope so

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Regarding the monitor, it may be best to find a nice PAL CRT for previewing video.
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For color accuracy and good depth, I know I prefer an S-IPS LCD.
I felt that a LCD monitor is preferrable over a CRT, as most consumers will be watching this product on an LCD nowadays.
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  #9  
06-03-2011, 01:04 AM
guokamoli guokamoli is offline
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I might also add that I will be offering conversion services for mediums that are already in a digital format (MiniDV tapes, standalone video files, Digital 8 media, etc)
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06-14-2011, 11:55 AM
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Quote:
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I might also add that I will be offering conversion services for mediums that are already in a digital format (MiniDV tapes, standalone video files, Digital 8 media, etc)
You'll still need/want a good camera -- especially for the Digital8 video. Digital video tape is very flimsy compared even to VHS tape, and an imperfect video camera can completely destroy digital tapes with very little effort. You'll also possibly run into problems with longer player modes, if using a camera other than the original DV/D8 camera. So be prepared for that fiasco.

The biggest issue with already-digital files (non-camera files) is that people will generally give you junk for sources, unless you're dealing with a studio. You'll have friends/family, and even potential indy customers, asking if you can make some crummy Youtube video "look better". (Or their butchered DVD version of a tape they threw away, etc.) In most cases, no, you really cannot. So there's a layer of frustration that comes with digital file sources. Prepare for that, too.

Now, you're still sure you want to get into the video business?

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  #11  
06-15-2011, 08:39 AM
guokamoli guokamoli is offline
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You'll still need/want a good camera -- especially for the Digital8 video.
In that case, I might do a bit of research here. Maybe I'll make a seperate thread about it? Who knows?

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The biggest issue with already-digital files (non-camera files) is that people will generally give you junk for sources, unless you're dealing with a studio.
I'll be expecting that...and I have a good number of years involving working on and off such digital enhancements and repairs. I certainly hope I've seen everything, but I'm happy to take on any new learning experiences

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In most cases, no, you really cannot. So there's a layer of frustration that comes with digital file sources. Prepare for that, too.
I'll be expecting that too

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Now, you're still sure you want to get into the video business?
Yup!

I have had a passion for digital media repair and enhancements for years. I have gone through many highs and lows back when I have modified videos previously, back when I was only juggling this as a hobby that was juggled together with my previous career choice (I was an IT technical support representative for a certain giant computer reseller :/).

I like to tinker, I like to pull apart videos to make modifications, and then put them back together to see what happens...like my attempt at video upscaling about 2-3 years ago. Converted 1 hour of footage into an image sequence, then used a genuine fractals upscaling plugin for photoshop to upscale each individual frame of the footage using batch commands. Took a month just to upscale the entire sequence

My motive at the moment is to get up to scratch with methods and technology required to manage analogue video. Then I want to go mainstream with my skills in a bid to make a small profit on the side.

If it wasnt a passion however, I would probably reconsider going down this road
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  #12  
06-15-2011, 05:37 PM
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Converted 1 hour of footage into an image sequence, then used a genuine fractals upscaling plugin for photoshop to upscale each individual frame of the footage using batch commands. Took a month just to upscale the entire sequence
Been there, done that, have the t-shirt.

If I never again have to do a project like that, I would probably be fine with it.
Unless being given lots of money for the effort.

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  #13  
06-16-2011, 04:10 AM
guokamoli guokamoli is offline
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Well its not really practical anymore, is it? As far as videos are concerned, the Deemon Video enhancer will do a better job of upscaling videos now than photoshop batch commands.
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06-16-2011, 05:59 AM
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I'm not impressed by Deemon.
I've received feedback that Ikena has excellent upscaling, however. For $8k, it had better be.

I'd rather use hardware, when possible. The SignVideo detailers, Panasonic AG-1980 sharpness sliders, and Elite Video BVP-4 resolution boosters all work better than software enhancements. And if you really have money to spend, it's hard to beat Snell & Willcox hardware. Or Faroudja hardware.

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  #15  
06-16-2011, 09:34 AM
guokamoli guokamoli is offline
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I've heard the same things about ikena too, but until motiondsp gets sensible and allows everyone access to a full trial of the software 'at no charge', or until an existing owner posts a solid review of the ikena software, I'm going to take it all with a grain of salt.

There's just no solid reviews of this software out there. None by a third party anyway.
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