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  #1  
06-05-2011, 11:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rappy
Hello, Was wondering if you had time yet to review my options. I'd like to decide what direction is best for this project. I'd like it (of course) to turn out nice. I am still unclear exactly what the differences are between a TBC and Proc amp. Are they always separate or sometimes the same. Though I know there are some current issues, I think I am still going to go with the avt 8710. Will I also need A Sign Video pa-100? But my biggest decision is still do I build a XP pc or not? Then what capture device? ATI 7500, Canopus let's edit RT+. Or an ATI 600 USB? I'd like to pick up all the pcs ASAP, then I can start organizing the tapes and start reviewing test captures. Thanks in advance, Rappy
I'll be glad to clear some of this up for you. I'll pull out a few quotes, and then respond piece by piece.

Quote:
I am still unclear exactly what the differences are between a TBC and Proc amp. Are they always separate or sometimes the same.
A TBC is a "timebase corrector" (or "time base corrector"), and it's a piece of hardware that will properly correcting the timing and stability of an analog video signal, by using a mix of analog and digital processing. The degree to which a TBC will filter video very much depends on what kind of TBC it is, and its intended use. For example, some TBCs have been engineered specifically with the intention of being used to stabilized chaotic consumer formats, such as VHS tapes. Others are for Betacam SP or even U-matic, for use by broadcasters.

A more detailed explanation is available here: What is a TBC? Time Base Correction for Videotapes
Also included there are suggested TBC models, such as the AVT-8710 or TBC-1000.

A proc amp is shorthand video slang for a "color processor/amplifier" -- a piece of hardware that adjusts the color values of analog video, using a mix of analog and digital filtering. To the layman, this means it will alter the contrast, brightness, tint, saturation and sharpness, much like a standard television. However, since proc amps are largely considered professional gear, the adjustments are named with technically accurate video jargon: luma, chroma, IRE, gamma, phase, level, coring, and similar terms. The available adjustments, and terms used, varies from unit to unit.

Examples of good proc amps include the Elite Video BVP-4 and BVP-4 Plus, and the SignVideo PA-100.

Generally speaking, a TBC and a proc amp are not at all the same. However, there are TBCs that include full or partial proc amps. The higher end broadcast TBCs, such as a Leitch (and the former Digital Processing Systems) often contain great proc amps, comparable to the standalone Vidicraft gear of the 1980s-1990s. The DPS-200, for example, had a decent proc amp. However, the TBC was expensive, huge, hot, and tended to not work as well with VHS as the more modern TBCs engineered for that source.

The AVT-8710 (and CTB-100, plus any other Cypress re-labeled TBC), includes a very mild/weak proc amp control. It's not at all very powerful, but it you only want tiny adjustments, it serves that function.

The extra inclusion of proc amp controls on some TBCs often leads to confusion among novice users of the hardware, so I can understand the question.

Quote:
Though I know there are some current issues, I think I am still going to go with the avt 8710.
As long as it's not defective, it should work quite well. I've been using AVT-8710 TBCs for several years now. Hopefully the defects problem is small and will soon be contained. It appears to mostly affect the AVT-8710 TBCs currently available at B&H, although they seem to now be aware of the problem, and hopefully that means it will be taken up with the manufacturer.

Quote:
Will I also need A Sign Video pa-100?
Need? No. A proc amp is always optional gear. However, because the PA-100 is a powerful hardware proc amp, it comes highly suggested! It could make your transfer process much better, by including hardware color tweaking controls. It should be essential gear for a professional user, though home users may not have the budget for it (hence the "optional" status).

Quote:
But my biggest decision is still do I build a XP pc or not? Then what capture device? ATI 7500, Canopus let's edit RT+. Or an ATI 600 USB?
Most of the best video hardware currently available works best (or ONLY with) Windows XP systems. XP represents the best of the classic Windows environments (Win95 to Win2003) for video work. Starting with Vista, Microsoft changed how audio/video software functions on the system, and then lots of hardware has no driver support past XP. So you'll see many users, pro and amateur alike, using Windows XP systems for the video projects.

The ATI All In Wonder Radeon 7500 (AGP) cards are excellent, and highly suggested. You can capture uncompressed or lossless AVI, as well as MPEG-2 at both DVD-Video and the larger sub-broadcast bitrates.

Canopus Let's Edit RT+ is a pretty outdated and somewhat limited sub-NLE editor. It's missing quite a few features expected from a full NLE suite, and I don't believe it natively had any sort of MPEG-2 export, unless you managed to buy Procoder Express (no longer available, no longer sold). It would probably also no work beyond Windows XP, and faster/newer non-XP systems are what we suggest for editing and encoding. Only keep the older/slower XP systems for the capturing tasks. Only use it to encode if you're really patient and have few encoding/editing needs. In 2011, you'd probably do better with Adobe Premiere Elements for $76 from Amazon (better deal than Adobe.com!).

To give further advice on what editing program would be best, I'd have to know more about what you're doing. Somebody simply converting tape to DVD will not get the same advice as somebody who wants to capture their videos, and then edit a masterpiece (i.e., "best of" videos, adding special effects, etc). Or if you want to encode for Youtube or a website, as opposed to standard DVD-Video DVDs.


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  #2  
06-06-2011, 12:26 AM
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Thanks for the reply. I have run into a snag my mobo does not have an AGP slot, so I cannot use the AIW 7500. From reading all the other posts, I am guessing my next choice would be the 600 USB- would that be correct? Again, my first priority is to capture the tapes to my hard drive(at the best possible format dvi?)

I Would then like to have the ability to edit/create Dvd's as needed. I have about 125 VHS tapes, but I also have a canon hv20 HD mini dv cam with about 30 or so tapes (not sure if that will make a difference?). What about a BM intensity pro. Would that be a better option with my equipment and objective?

I think it's starting to make sense, but I still can't decide on my best capture hardware.

Thanks, rappy
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  #3  
06-07-2011, 08:23 AM
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Here's my PM, with responses. (Be very sure to ask tech questions on the forums, as asking in PMs takes us longer to reply -- the best help is gained when asking on-forum, so the first available person can get you the answers you need. If you ever want a specific Site Staff opinion, simply ask for it in the body of the post. For non-Site Staff, PM the person, asking that he/she give input on the post. Avoid asking Q&A questions in PMs. Thanks for understanding.)

Full PM:

Quote:
Originally Posted by rappy
Hello LS.

So I am stuck. I am trying to decide on my capture device. I thought I could put together a dedicated machine based on XP and my AIW 7500, but my ASUS p5b deluxe does not have an AGP slot. I also have a Canopus Let's Edit RT+ and a Canopus advc 300. I know you do not recommend the advc (well you think there are better alternatives right?), and haven't read much about the Lets Edit card?

So my question is- what are my options? Use what I have or buy an AIW 600 USB? or maybe the BM INTENSITY PRO? I what the best I can get ( and I don't mean most $$$). I just want the 100+ VHS tapes to turn out good. I can use it on a dedicated XP box or my W7 rig. I have a JVC 9900, with an 7810 & sign video pa100 on the way. So I think I have the input part of the project covered. It's just the capture part that I am struggling with? Any recommendation would greatly be appreciated!

Ps I have posed this on this site, and have received some feedback. I guess I just need some additional opinions!
Thanks much, Rappy
Smaller replies:

Quote:
I thought I could put together a dedicated machine based on XP and my AIW 7500, but my ASUS p5b deluxe does not have an AGP slot.
To some degree, this is like trying to put the round peg in the square hole. Round peg = ATI card, square hole = Asus motherboard (mobo). Instead of tossing the peg, find the right slot! You'll be hard-pressed to find quirk-free high-quality analog video capture cards in 2011, and the ATI All In Wonder 7500 card is one of the best ones you could have. Get yourself an AGP slot motherboard, and build a capture-only system. (Use a KVM, if you don't need/want more than one monitor, mouse and keyboard -- just like I do. I highly suggest this TrendNet 2-port KVM for $25. I have one of these, as well as some of the 4-port ones.)

Quote:
Use what I have or buy an AIW 600 USB?
This is a second-choice option, if you're forced to use Windows Vista or Windows 7. It does not have all the functionality of the ATI All In Wonder Radeon cards, but it comes close. You cannot capture PAL MPEG-2, and you must use VirtualDub for AVI (PAL or NTSC). The card does not officially support PAL, but you can capture PAL AVI with some manual setting adjustments in Vdub.

Quote:
or maybe the BM INTENSITY PRO?
Maybe. This is a high-price card, and is not without its quirks. Good card, but maybe overkill for basic VHS to DVD (or even VHS to streaming formats) type work. I guess it really depends on any other video needs you have. Right now I'm assuming VHS to DVD, like most folks are doing.

Quote:
I have a JVC 9900, with an 7810 & sign video pa100 on the way. So I think I have the input part of the project covered.
All good stuff.


I think you're almost there. I'd consider modifying the XP system to be powered by the already-owned ATI All In Wonder card. Or failing that, the ATI 600 USB is a great little card -- I use mine regularly for VHS to Huffyuv AVI in VirtualDub.

Moving on to the last post here from you:

Quote:
at the best possible format dvi?
DV is not best, at a lossy 4:1:1 colorspace compression and 5:1 "I-frame" file compression. I think you'd be much better off with a lossless format like Huffyuv or .... that other one I never use, and the name escapes me at the moment. Even a high bitrate MPEG-2 file (15-20Mbps) can be as good as or better than DV, because it still retains 4:2:0 of what would generally start out as an equivalent to 4:2:2 off the VHS tape.

Quote:
canon hv20 HD mini dv cam with about 30 or so tapes (not sure if that will make a difference?)
"Capture" these digitally as HDV over Firewire 400 (IEEE1394). Do not analog capture these tapes, or you'll lose quite a bit of quality. In fact, being HDV, you'd be best to just archive the video as-is as DV AVI files, on a large hard drive. If you want to create 16:9 DVDs, you can. Or keep that full HD resolution and get into the Blu-ray making arena. (More work, and not really the same as making DVDs. Maybe one step at a time? Let's just concentrate on VHS to DVD for now.)

Quote:
I think it's starting to make sense
I can hear your cogs turning from here.

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  #4  
06-07-2011, 10:31 AM
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LS,

Do you have any recomendations on a mobo that would work well with my socket 775 CPU? I also have modern day SATA hard drives.

Rappy
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  #5  
06-07-2011, 11:04 PM
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Ok. Does anyone have a suggestion for a mobo? I have a Q6600 CPU with newer 3Gb/s hard drives. My power supply is 24 pin (but I think you can use it on a 20 pin?). I have found this on eBay- ASRock 4CoreDual-VSTA Socket 775 Motherboard w/ AGP 8x??? Looks like this got decent reviews on Newegg when it was available. If anyone has one they are willing to sell, I would entertain an offer. My tbc and proc amp arrived today. I just need the mobo and I can begin testing!

As far as editing, it would be just on DVD or kept on my hard drive.

Look forward to your comments!

Rappy
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  #6  
06-09-2011, 09:07 PM
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UPDATE- well I received my avt 8710 & sign video proc amp. Proc amp works nice, but I think I received a defective 8710 I am getting the blurry screen in the menu screen on my JVC 9900 (mentioned in another thread). I will return it tomorrow and try again. If that doesn't work- well not sure what other product to get? I also ordered the mobo mentioned in post #5. I hope that plays nice with my other equipment. Some new questions-

What are the best settings for my JVC hr-s9900u?
What is the simplest way to "calibrate" my monitor? When I capture, I will be using an ASUS vh242?

Thx.
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  #7  
06-09-2011, 09:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rappy View Post
UPDATE- well I received my avt 8710 & sign video proc amp. Proc amp works nice, but I think I received a defective 8710 I am getting the blurry screen in the menu screen on my JVC 9900 (mentioned in another thread).
Please post the serial number, and if you can a shot of the inside of the unit.
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  #8  
06-09-2011, 11:16 PM
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s/n 2238406012831

Sorry but I do not have my digi cam but here is some of the info:

Ic6 - LTB101 v2.1 S1011
Ic1 - NX?
Ic3 & 4 - AVERLOGIC. -AL440B-24-PBF
MS943
0950

Sorry but that's I can come up with. I guess poor lighting huh?
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  #9  
06-14-2011, 01:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rappy View Post
Do you have any recomendations on a mobo that would work well with my socket 775 CPU? I also have modern day SATA hard drives. Rappy
Geeks.com has several nice AGP socket 775 boards available: http://www.geeks.com/search.asp?QUER...&CJPID=3235990
Geeks tends to be a great place for older CPUs and motherboards -- better than eBay.

Thanks for adding your information on the AVT-8710 TBC issue. That is helpful.

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Last edited by kpmedia; 06-15-2011 at 10:22 AM. Reason: Removed advice meant for somebody. Oops.
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  #10  
06-14-2011, 07:56 PM
rappy rappy is offline
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Kpmedia- not sure what you mean by "use the board that was sent with the card.."? The only motherboard I have is a socket 775 without an AGP slot. I just picked up a mobo from eBay. I'll see how it works, and go from there. Stay tuned.
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  #11  
06-15-2011, 10:26 AM
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Seems I made a mistake! There's been several new members lately with similar topics, and I had mistaken you for somebody else -- somebody that had purchased an ATI AIW card + motherboard combo. That's clearly not the case. You had a card, but no motherboard (neither with the card, nor already in hand).

Buying a new motherboard should be the answer, yes. Generally speaking, I prefer to buy new/refurb motherboards from Geeks.com, but sometime you'll find a good non-abused board available on eBay. Hopefully you'll land a good board. Once you have it, and have "rehardwared" (yes, a made up word!) your computer, let us know how you've fared.

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  #12  
06-16-2011, 09:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rappy
Hello admin. I am looking for the correct drives for my 7500. Should I be using the drives from the AIW post. I believe it is reply # 4? Thx, rappy
Try to install using the CD image from post #20: ATI All In Wonder Hacks, Drivers, Codecs and MMC. While it was made for the 9000 series, it should work on the 7000 series cards. It will install ATI MMC 8.x for you, which is really what you want to be using.

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