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  #81  
07-30-2014, 11:59 AM
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on tape masters made by professionals there is often a 30 second color bar or blank part of the tape preceeding the content or warnings. this is exactly for that reason, that the vcr will first need to track properly but more importantly vcrs are more destructive to the first and last parts of a tape that get rewound as they see so much use. if you capture before you press play, its very easy to get dropped inserted frames at the beginning.
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  #82  
07-30-2014, 04:51 PM
vhsdigital34 vhsdigital34 is offline
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Thanks premiumcapture

That's very unfortunate.. So there's no fixing that..

Am I better off not using the AVT (is less more?) if there aren't frame sync timing issues?

Is there a reason why the retail video seems to look better without both AVT and panny's TBC (#61 1st file)? Not sure why there would be a difference between no TBC at all (#61 1st file) and having just the panny's TBC (#64 1st file) on (unless I'm seeing things)

The last part of the device questions are which workflow works best for each type? I have many other tapes (that I won't upload) but I figure if we can come to conclusions and throw around ideas on these I and others who are relatively new at this would be able to use it as a guideline for the rest.

Are the below statements true or is this more ambiguous to answer?

1) the home video with the little girl is better off with panny's TBC and AVT's TBC. Home video captures are in posts #59&60

2) for the SLP tapes, the JVC TBC with AVT's TBC is the better option. SLP captures are in posts #67,68,70

3) for the retail tape, the panny without panny's TBC and without the AVT is the better option. Retail tape captures are in posts #61,64,65
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  #83  
07-30-2014, 05:55 PM
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You should also read the FAQ on TBCs: What is a TBC? Time Base Correction for Videotapes

Based off comments so far, internally and on the forum, the AVT-8710 is probably functioning perfectly.

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  #84  
07-30-2014, 09:50 PM
vhsdigital34 vhsdigital34 is offline
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Thank you kpmedia.

I appreciate letting me know that I can rest easy with the AVT-8710. I have read that thread (that's how I started hunting for the AG-1980, JVC SVHS player, and green/black AVT-8710) but that was 7 months ago. I'm new at this so I apologize if I'm getting a few details jumbled (perhaps I should go through that thread again as a refresher). This site has been a fantastic resource and I appreciate everyone's help. Thank you very much.

In the meantime, I've went out to GOM player's customer support and asked what kind if deinterlace filter they used and they mentioned they use "triangle filter". This isn't described on google or any of the forums. Is there anything on the deinterlace through software guide that it's the equivalent or is it different? If different, what's being done and which other software uses it? I've noticed GOM player does a heck of a job (I'd say perfect?) with it compared to others such as VLC.
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  #85  
08-01-2014, 04:55 PM
sanlyn sanlyn is offline
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Many players are better than VLC. Try MPC-BE.
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  #86  
08-01-2014, 05:34 PM
vhsdigital34 vhsdigital34 is offline
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Have you tried GOM for interlaced video? Is mpc-be better at it?
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  #87  
08-01-2014, 08:22 PM
sanlyn sanlyn is offline
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Both are good players, but MPC-BE seems to have a vast following of very satisfied users. Why not try both, and see which one "likes" your system better?
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  #89  
08-03-2014, 08:34 AM
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What about these?
Huffyuv YUY2 AVI to Blu-ray conversion? (and TBC samples!)
Which FTP files are those?

And it looks like something is missing here:
Huffyuv YUY2 AVI to Blu-ray conversion? (and TBC samples!)

Some of you post # are now wrong, because I've had to merge some posts.

We'll go back and delete these organization posts when done with this. Some were already removed.

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  #90  
08-03-2014, 09:18 AM
vhsdigital34 vhsdigital34 is offline
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Thanks a lot Lordsmurf!!

For the first link you've provided I figured since those captures were prior to the AVT-8710 being properly reset it didn't matter (and I've deleted it from my back up because it was of no use). In hindsight after going back to the post, if you'd like for me to put the winrar files on the site back together so the flow of the conversation makes sense (i.e. How to properly reset AVT vs what I did) I can do that tonight when I get back home. Otherwise, those can be deleted.

For the second link, that was all of them. I forgot to capture no AVT and no panny TBC for the retail but once I was done, realized it wasn't needed since there's no way of telling if the AVT's TBC is working or not based off of both TBC's turned/plugged off.

(The below is only assuming if partial merges are possible)
As for organizational flow, I'd say post#59 should be split in two after the fourth sample and merge with post#61 at the start of the second already merged there (i.e. Right after the thank you. That way, all the retail samples are in one post.

Up until the sample portion of post#65 should be merged with the end of post#63. That will keep all the SLP samples together.

Please let me know. Thanks again!!
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  #91  
08-03-2014, 10:33 AM
vhsdigital34 vhsdigital34 is offline
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Belated thank you sanlyn! I'll check out both and report back!


Hi Lordsmurf,

I've added a second IDE 160gb PATA hdd to the capturing rig. Jumper is set to slave and connected to the middle portion of the IDE cable. Bios also recognizes it as secondary slave hdd. The strange thing is, it performs fine in the beginning but eventually dropped 50 frames after 20 minutes. If capturing with the primary WinXP hdd, it doesn't drop frames like that at all. How would I get capture to the secondary drive more stable as I'd rather use the 160GB than the 80GB that already used space for XP. The primary is the one the computer came with (IDE 80GB PATA).

Perhaps I've set it up wrong? Originally I've put it in with jumper setting "select" but that was worse (constant dropped frames from the beginning). When I used the "select" setting though I didn't ensure the bios saw the hdd. Should I have done that? Or put it on as master? The other end of the parallel cable is the DVD-rom drive. Was sitting there scratching my head.
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  #92  
08-03-2014, 11:50 AM
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Is the 160gb PATA drive 7200rpm? What about the primary 80gb?

FYI: The post rules/guidelines for attachments have been updated because of this thread. See the updates at How to Properly Upload Images and Attach Files to This Site. And yes, re-download that first file, upload to the FTP, then reply here with the link.

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  #93  
08-03-2014, 03:08 PM
vhsdigital34 vhsdigital34 is offline
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Will do. Thank admin!

Yes, the newer 160GB is 7500rpm. Not sure what the primary 80gb. Is there a way to tell without taking it out? It's locked in tight since it came built with the desktop. I'm assuming since it's not dropping frames it'd be just as fast but not sure. The primary drive seems to be on it's own separate single plug cable
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  #94  
08-03-2014, 11:26 PM
vhsdigital34 vhsdigital34 is offline
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Here are the last two for post#54 mentioned in order:

http://cdn4.digitalfaq.com/vhsdigita...fore_reset.avi
http://cdn4.digitalfaq.com/vhsdigita...fore_reset.avi

Last edited by vhsdigital34; 08-04-2014 at 12:01 AM.
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  #95  
08-04-2014, 01:04 AM
vhsdigital34 vhsdigital34 is offline
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Hi sanlyn,

I've just downloaded and checked out MPC-BE but am having a hard time locating the deinterlace portion of the option. Is it inherent with BCE-ME? If it doesn't have one, I'd say GOM player does a great job with taking out the combing effect from the interlaced video.
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  #96  
08-04-2014, 01:43 AM
premiumcapture premiumcapture is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vhsdigital34 View Post
Hi sanlyn,

I've just downloaded and checked out MPC-BE but am having a hard time locating the deinterlace portion of the option. Is it inherent with BCE-ME? If it doesn't have one, I'd say GOM player does a great job with taking out the combing effect from the interlaced video.
Click Play -> Filters -> MPC Decoder -> Deinterlacing to choose a setting. I have MPC as my go-to during off-time, but I tend to use VLC just as much.
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  #97  
08-04-2014, 08:14 AM
vhsdigital34 vhsdigital34 is offline
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Thanks premiumcapture, I'll try that once I get back. Tried figuring it out on my own by googling it but had no luck. Feels like I can only good info from here..

Another thing I tried to google and came up empty: how do I cut a yuy2 so that the video quality stays exactly the same? There's a new capture I did but want to only post the specific portion where it's happening. Seems like on the retail tape from 1986, the entire frame quickly shifts ever so slightly to the right and then to the left making it seem like it's "jumping" off it's lane.

Thanks again!!
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  #98  
08-04-2014, 11:40 AM
sanlyn sanlyn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vhsdigital34 View Post
Another thing I tried to google and came up empty: how do I cut a yuy2 so that the video quality stays exactly the same?
Your huff YUY2 captures are lossless. Open the AVI in VirtualDub, make your edit, then save it lossless YUY2 using:
- "Video..." -> "Color depth..." -> and choose YUY2
- "Video..." -> "Compression..." -> and choose huffyuv YUY2
- "Video..." -> "Fast recompress"
Then "File..." -> "Save as AVI..."

I'd suggest that you save intermediate lossless AVI working files using Lagarith instead of HuffYUV. Different versions of huffyuv behave differently on different machines, while Lagarith is more universally consistent. I mention that because I don't know what version of huffyuv you're using, but this is the way your huffyuv files display on two of my PC's when they were first downloaded:


I had to activate my copy of ffdshow's huffyuv decoder, then opened the AVi's with DirectShowSource and recompressed your samples with Lagarith to get a proper display. I'd also mention that many Avisynth plugins work only with YV12, while most versions of huffyuv won't compress to YV12.


Attached Images
File Type: jpg incompatible huff.jpg (143.5 KB, 32 downloads)
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  #99  
08-04-2014, 11:54 AM
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+1 on Lagarith. Using on Windows 8.1 with no issues.
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  #100  
08-04-2014, 01:29 PM
sanlyn sanlyn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vhsdigital34 View Post
Am I better off not using the AVT (is less more?) if there aren't frame sync timing issues?
Yes, less is usually more. Every component in the capture chain affects the image to some degree. Assume, of course, that you don't have those frame-level issues.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vhsdigital34 View Post
Is there a reason why the retail video seems to look better without both AVT and panny's TBC (#61 1st file)? Not sure why there would be a difference between no TBC at all (#61 1st file) and having just the panny's TBC (#64 1st file) on (unless I'm seeing things)
Who says they look better, LOL? I'd say it's more a case of you not seeing things. Look at the pics (below) of the top section of your 3 basketball captures. The upper section shows how objects are bent along the top of the frame without the line tbc. The tbc circuits are also doing a little chroma cleanup, even if that kind of noise in many retail tapes isn't so horrible. In the two lower sections, the bars at the top of the frame are straight.



You probably can't get away on that basketball tape without further cleanup. You have shots with invalid levels and chroma, and some bad oversaturation with red on some shots. There's also excessive interlace combing and some edge aliasing that could stand some work.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vhsdigital34 View Post
2) for the SLP tapes, the JVC TBC with AVT's TBC is the better option.
The panny sample has more noise, but also much more detail. The JVC runs a little more quiet with all that edge shimmer on a bad tape (there are settings in QTGMC that will clean up a lot of that). The JVC has less noise but a lot less detail. JVC's noise reduction on very noisy tapes like this can cost you: notice that the clothing and skin tones in the shots of the two guys talking have no textures or subtle contours in the JVC sample. With noisy tapes, JVC can produce a rather soft, oil-paint kind of image. Sharpeners don't restore lost detail, and denoisers here will give posterization effects in skin tones. I'd try cleaning up the Panny version instead. But that's just my opinion. Both could stand some work, in any case. I'd suggest you save the JVC for SP tapes, not slower ones. But you never can tell. Test and check things out first.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vhsdigital34 View Post
1) the home video with the little girl is better off with panny's TBC and AVT's TBC.
Yes, but for more reasons than you think. Without the tbc, you're losing 4 to 6 frames between frame 141 and 142 in ''test_no_AVT-8710_with_pan_TBC_after_reset.avi" . This is damaged tape that seems to be sending out corrupt frame sync signals that are being interpreted by your capture card as Macrovision effects.

Sometimes I think you're just testing us with some of these captures (???). Below are 4 different versions of the top 120 pixels of the four home tape captures. The top image with no AVT and no line TBC looks a lot like Macrovision effects across the top. The strip below that (With AVT but no line TBC) shows frame ripping across the top, which the AVT won't fix. Below that, the "No AVT but with Pan TBC" would look OK if it weren't for the fact that your capture card is dropping frames without the AVT. The bottom strip is AVT + Pan TBC.



Below are three strips from the right-hand side of 3 captures. The strips at the left and middle show wrinkles and notches in vertical lines, without the line TBC. The middle section has AVT, but vertical lines are still crooked. The strip at the right shows how a line TBC straightens those lines. Those crooks and notches will look different on every frame -- as the video plays, those vertical lines will often "wiggle" or "ripple". The line TBC also fixed the ripping at the top of the frame.



Something weird in "test_with_AVT-8710_but_no_pan_TBC_after_reset.avi" . I'm seeing one field frozen in place for several frames, with double "ghost" images from following frames. Maybe the .zip's didn't unzip correctly??



Attached Images
File Type: jpg No Line TBC -vs - Line TBC On.jpg (64.8 KB, 32 downloads)
File Type: jpg ABCD_Top_Image F.jpg (101.1 KB, 32 downloads)
File Type: jpg ABC Pan TBC -vs - With Pan TBC.jpg (137.4 KB, 32 downloads)
File Type: jpg post 59 With AVT - No Pan TBC.jpg (88.5 KB, 32 downloads)
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