Quantcast Panasonic VCR vs. JVC VCR + my capture rig? - digitalFAQ Forum
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06-13-2015, 12:05 PM
chjmartin2 chjmartin2 is offline
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Hi,

I am new to this but have put together the below set of resources for my use:

VCRs - Panasonic AG-1980P, JVC HR-S9900U, HR-S8000U, HR-S4600U, Sanyo VWM-800, Philips VR-6785
TBCs - TVOne Task 1T-TBC-GL, I.DEN I7-IVT
Scaler - Extron DVS 204
Capture Cards - StarTech PEXHDCAP, Roxio Video Capture USB, WinTV-HVR 950Q

I have not yet received the TVOne but love the enhanced output provided by the I.DEN. Problem is that the I.Den is very old and I can't find a service manual for it to make the right adjustments. Somebody has already fiddled with the internal adjustments along with the ones behind the front cover. Also there has to be some bad caps in it because there is this odd rolling light line that rolls from right to left. So we will wait for our TVOne and sell the I.Den for parts/as-is.

Anyway, I couldn't find a 1980P to S9900U video comparison so I made one. I was disappointed with the JVC after having heard Lord Smurf compliment it so many times. I am afraid maybe mine is in disrepair or just has really worn heads. The capture rig was this:

VCR -> S-Video -> Extron DVS 204 -> StarTech PEXHDCap

Both VCRs had their TBCs enabled, the Extron had enhanced mode off and was set to 480P output. I feel the 1980P has a better picture for this particular setup. The left channel audio is the Panasonic and right channel is the JVC.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CMz_...ature=youtu.be

Thanks,

Chris
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06-13-2015, 01:01 PM
sanlyn sanlyn is offline
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Sorry, but we're not responsible for anything YouTube does to your videos. An accurate evaluation requires a cut from your original capture, not something that's been deintelaced, resized, re-encoded, etc, etc., etc.
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06-13-2015, 02:25 PM
chjmartin2 chjmartin2 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sanlyn View Post
Sorry, but we're not responsible for anything YouTube does to your videos. An accurate evaluation requires a cut from your original capture, not something that's been deintelaced, resized, re-encoded, etc, etc., etc.
I wasn't suggesting that I was upset or blaming! Here is a Google Drive Link to the video. I captured in uncompressed video. Created the side by side uncompressed and then converted to x264. I wanted to see it for myself - thought others would want to see it as well. I didn't know Youtube wasn't allowed.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B4x...ew?usp=sharing
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06-13-2015, 05:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sanlyn View Post
Sorry, but we're not responsible for anything YouTube does to your videos. An accurate evaluation requires a cut from your original capture, not something that's been deintelaced, resized, re-encoded, etc, etc., etc.
Be nice. We're friendly here. We're not overrun by not-nice members like Doom9 or Videohelp, after all.

But you are correct: Youtube butchers videos, so it's mostly useless for the purpose of samples. Always attach files to the forum (100mb max).

@chjmartin2

I'm downloading your clip, and I'll look at it in a bit. However, anything over 100mb is honestly unneeded.

I did glance at the Youtube clip. What I see is actually a problem with the Panasonic -- the picture is too dark and muddy. There is a magenta luma cast as well. The JVC may have a slight IRE issue, but it's very minimal. Some of that may be due to anti-copy, if this was a retail tape. Even when removed, anti-copy can have some lasting harmful side effects on analog video. Realize that my monitor is color/gamma calibrated for video work -- is yours?

While you seem to have some nice video hardware (VCR, TBC), but I already see some weak links in your chain. For example, Roxio (anything they make) is crap. I'm not 100% sure about some of the other equipment; example: Extron. Never rule out those devices as being a problem, so always be sure to test VCRs with known-good TBCs, known-good capture cards, and nothing else in the chain.

For upscaling, the AG-1980P may be better, yes.
The JVC 9900 is excellent.
If either give problems, then servicing may be required.

Update:

After download, the JVC shows more high-frequency noise -- but it's either from EDIT mode (no filtering), or the fact that the muddiness from the Panasonic is hiding it, or both. In terms of detail, I see almost no difference. The Panasonic is way too dark (likely capacitors are bad), and the JVC has an IRE issue. However, the IRE may be caused by upstream TBCs or other devices, meaning the Panasonic is even darker still when the correct IRE is output.

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06-13-2015, 06:14 PM
chjmartin2 chjmartin2 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lordsmurf View Post

While you seem to have some nice video hardware (VCR, TBC), but I already see some weak links in your chain. For example, Roxio (anything they make) is crap. I'm not 100% sure about some of the other equipment; example: Extron. Never rule out those devices as being a problem, so always be sure to test VCRs with known-good TBCs, known-good capture cards, and nothing else in the chain.
I did not use the Roxio as I know it is not good. My good capture card, PEXHDCAP does not accept S-VIDEO input which is why I am using the scaler. Point you are making about the Extron is valid - so I may have to but another capture card or USB capture device. (more reading...)

Quote:
For upscaling, the AG-1980P may be better, yes.
The JVC 9900 is excellent.
If either give problems, then servicing may be required.
I am pretty sure that the JVC needs new caps. I have seen some rainbow barber pole type of interference. I reached out to somebody who said they re-cap these, but am interested in that service.

Quote:

After download, the JVC shows more high-frequency noise -- but it's either from EDIT mode (no filtering), or the fact that the muddiness from the Panasonic is hiding it, or both. In terms of detail, I see almost no difference. The Panasonic is way too dark (likely capacitors are bad), and the JVC has an IRE issue. However, the IRE may be caused by upstream TBCs or other devices, meaning the Panasonic is even darker still when the correct IRE is output.
What does IRE mean? I have the JVC in Auto mode. There is a brightness/contrast adjustment on the Extron. I am going to get another PCI capture card that takes S-Video. My TVOne coming in may help as well. I need native SVIDEO capture to your point though.
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06-13-2015, 06:21 PM
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IRE = black level. This isn't the same as gamma or contrast.

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06-13-2015, 06:21 PM
sanlyn sanlyn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lordsmurf View Post
Be nice. We're friendly here. We're not overrun by not-nice members like Doom9 or Videohelp, after all.

But you are correct: Youtube butchers videos, so it's mostly useless for the purpose of samples. Always attach files to the forum (100mb max).
oops. Didn't mean to sound horrible. Meant to say that a YouTube post doesn't correctly show what the original really looks like. The Panny side does look dim and murky (needs new caps, IMO). But we don't know how the composition was processed. So we don't really know if all the glitches lordsmurf mentioned are on the originals.

There is a way to make such a demo as lossless huffyuv or Lagarith in Avisynth without re-encoding, resizing, deinterlacing, or whatnot.
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06-13-2015, 06:24 PM
chjmartin2 chjmartin2 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sanlyn View Post
There is a way to make such a demo as lossless huffyuv or Lagarith in Avisynth without re-encoding, resizing, deinterlacing, or whatnot.
I am using Virtuadub to capture and then did the edit in Sony Vegas. There is no need to redo. I think LS is right that the AG-1980 needs a cap job (don't think/know if I am up to it especially the SMD) and I also get the point about the scaler. Any good reco's for a USB 2/3 or PCI-e/X S-Video capture card?
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03-06-2016, 06:44 PM
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Quote:
Any good reco's for a USB 2/3 or PCI-e/X S-Video capture card?
For capture cards, standard ATI AIW advice applies.

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