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  #1  
12-29-2015, 08:41 AM
MrTIM MrTIM is offline
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Hi,
I found this forum through google and have read all the threads regarding my problem during the last couple of days. In short the project will be digitizing approximately 50 VHS cassettes with home videos on them as well as 50 VHS-Cs. This will be a gift for my girlfriend, whose dad filmed her and her sister growing up, so it is very important to her.
I am about to buy the components and need help, to see if I can improve something.

My Storage setup (which I already have):
QNAP 871 with 8x4TB disks in Raid 6 and backup to external disks. I am planing to store everything encoded with HuffYUV. Should be plenty of space.

The capture computer (parts need to be acquired, let me know, if something can be improved)
Core 2 Duo + Mobo with AGP + 2 GB RAM (I will get this tomorrow for free from a friend, and will update with the exact details )
ATI 9600 AiW
Turtle Beach Santa Cruz Sound Card
Random Case and PSU
Two hard drives (one small one for OS and one large for data storage)
Windows XP SP2

Now the VHS setup:
AG 1900P VHS
TBC AVT-8710
VHS-C adapter (which on, I will have to check)

Software:
VirtualDub with HuffYuff


I also have an ADVC 110 from a couple of years and a Mac, but since I want best possible quality I want to go with the AiW setup.
Do you guys have any tips for me, to make the project as easy as possible? My first goal is to store everything as uncompressed files, to avoid further degradation of the material on the tapes. Lateran, I might want to try improving the quality.


Thanks so much,
Sebastian
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  #2  
01-02-2016, 03:14 AM
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Huffyuv lossless AVI is about 35-40gb/hour. So assuming TC-30 EP mode tapes (90 minutes), times 50 tapes, times 40gb max, you'd entirely fill the 4tb drive. I'd store it on two separate eSATA external 4tb drives (one is a copy). Don't waste a nice RAID array storing video archives. The RAID is just temp capture space.

Your computer looks perfect. That's exactly what I have, but with more drives.
Asrock motherboard? Probably so.

You probably means 1980P, not 1900.
Hopefully that AVT-8710 has no chipset flaws.

You need to be very careful with VHS-C adapters. Only use the JVC metal adapter (C-P7U). The consequences are eaten tapes, as VCRs love to snack on the fragile/flimsy C format. The adapter matters.

ADVC is not ideal. Mac is not ideal. It's double punishment.

The only way for VHS-C to be easy is to be SP mode, and not EP mode. Otherwise you'll run into tracking and stability issues. Even SP is no guarantee of a problem-free capture, as the camera were pretty bad as well, and create issues when recording.

Just dig in, and see what you can see. If you have problems, come back and ask.

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  #3  
01-02-2016, 06:49 AM
MrTIM MrTIM is offline
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Hi,

thanks for the reply.

Yes it is a Asrock Conroe865PE with 2GB Ram.

Is a powered VHS-c Adapter from Panasonic also fine or should I get the JVC one? That's the adapter, that has always been used for playing the VHS-Cs back.

Another question: What is the safest way to ships all these? The videos are in a different state and need to be transported here somehow without damaging them or hem being lost.

Regarding the RAID Array. I also run a Plex Server on this and my girlfriend's parents have a Roku, so they can watch the digitized movies wherever they have internet. That's why I am definitely gonna store them on there.

Thanks,
Sebastian

Last edited by MrTIM; 01-02-2016 at 07:39 AM.
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  #4  
01-03-2016, 04:02 AM
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This is what we always tell our customers, in terms of shipping video:
- Wrap every 2-3 tapes loosely in plastic grocery bags. Not tight, as that will create moisture, and that's bad. The reason? You don't want rain to seep into the package.
- Put in sturdy box, never envelope.
- Use plenty of bubble/air/peanut padding -- but not too much Too much padding is like having none of at all. You need breathing room. It should be cushioned, not snug.
- Double boxing is best for heavier boxes. There needs to be several 2-3 inches of padding between the interior and exterior box.

I would capture Huffyuv, then encode out an interlaced MPEG-2 @ 15mbps (Blu-ray spec) archive. Perhaps even MPEG-2 422@HL encode. Then create an H.264 stream to share, probably using QTGMC on that copy to deinterlace. It's more work, but long-term easier to work with. I'd only save Huffyuv for anything that later needs to be restored or heavily edited (not just scissors editing).

The JVC adapter is known to be fine. If the Panasonic is flimsy plastic, not metal, then no, it's not good.

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  #5  
01-03-2016, 09:56 AM
MrTIM MrTIM is offline
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The VHS-C Adapter is exactly this one:
http://www.amazon.com/Panasonic-PlayPak-PV-P1-VYMW0009-Adaptor/dp/B00006JPWT

I think it is one of the better ones. Does anyone have experience with it? If not, I will get the JVC one.
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  #6  
01-03-2016, 10:01 AM
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Is it metal and motorized? That looks eerily similar to the JVC. (And that may be the case, as Panasonic and JVC are both subsidiaries of Matsushita Japan, and sometimes share items. Not often, as they are wholly separate.)

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01-03-2016, 11:34 AM
MrTIM MrTIM is offline
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Actually I have two adapter. The two adaptors (Philips & Panasonic) each are made with plastic top housing and metal bottoms. The metal bottoms are identical in configuration. The bottom portion contains a plastic drive-gear/wheel.


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Last edited by MrTIM; 01-03-2016 at 11:48 AM.
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  #8  
01-03-2016, 11:35 AM
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I think that's it.

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  #9  
01-03-2016, 01:37 PM
MrTIM MrTIM is offline
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Great! So I am gonna use the Panasonic one. During this week all the missing parts should arrive and then I will put together the computer and install Win XP SP2 the ATI drivers and VirtualDub. I have two Hard drives here. One 250GB WD Blue and a 1TB WD Green. I was planning to put the OS on the 250GB one and then capture to the WD Green. It should be fast enough, right?
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01-03-2016, 01:48 PM
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Should be fine to capture up to 20mbps, though 15mbps is the better choice for high-bitrate MPEG.
Again, that system is very similar to my main capture box.

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  #11  
01-03-2016, 06:09 PM
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My goal is to first archive the videos as quickly as possible in HuffYuv, since the quality is not the best anymore with the oldest ones being 32 years old. Is the hard drive fast enough for HuffYuv? Later I am gonna start looking into converting and/or restoring but will still keep the original lossless footage.

For conversion editing purposes I have a Core i7-5820K with 32GB RAM and an 1TB SSD at work. (I am doing my PhD at MIT and they bought me a nice computer to work with a high speed camera. )

By the end of the week I should have all the parts and will put Windows XP on the machine. Does SP2 or 3 make a difference? I have acquired a ATI AiW 9800 Pro now, which MMC is best for this card? Should I capture with the ATI software or with VirtualDub? Which resolution 640x480, or 720x480?
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  #12  
01-04-2016, 06:48 AM
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MrTIM is Mr. MIT! Nice.
I always enjoy hearing that this site attracts the smarter-than-the-average-bear type folks.

Use 720x480. I think it's required for Huffyuv anyway.

Capture AVI with VirtualDub, not MMC. Save MMC for any MPEG capturing you do, if any.

ATI MMC 8.8 or 8.9 was the MMC that existed when this card was released. Use one of those. Both should work fine. I use 8.8 for many of my 9x00 card installs.

SP3 is SP2 with lots of added internet/security crap that you won't need. So SP2.

IDE hard drives were fast enough for uncompressed YUY2 (75gb/hour). Huffyuv is not an issue, especially if you're using a SATA based board (with non-VIA drivers). And that seems to be the case.

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  #13  
01-06-2016, 07:42 PM
MrTIM MrTIM is offline
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Hi,

thanks so much for all the help!

I got my Panasonic 1980P in the mail today and I was wondering, how can I test it best?
I can already tell, that the display is very dim and that, when I connect it to power the power supply in the VCR makes a noise. I guess those are the capacitors? Can I still just start converting the videos? I don't think, I need the display much, right?
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  #14  
01-07-2016, 08:11 AM
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Maybe.

The PSU on a Panasonic is not 100% silent, but it should also not be louder than a spinning external 3.5" HDD.

Dim display can be caps, but remember that this is also a 1990s LED. Hard to tell sometimes. I almost never look at mine. In fact, the way my deck is situated in my custom wood rack, looking at the display isn't all that easy. I mostly care about the back of the unit (constant rewiring for projects), and the front is just where I stick in tapes. The remote does almost everything. I rarely have to changes the control settings on the front, and need a flashlight to see them when I do.

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01-07-2016, 08:14 AM
MrTIM MrTIM is offline
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The PSU is definitely louder than a spinning HDD. The remarkable thing is, that it gets quiet, as soon as I start playing a tape, which seems weird to me. Tonight or on the weekend I have some time trying out all the functions. The eBay seller said it was fully functional, so I am curious if this is the truth.
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  #16  
01-07-2016, 08:18 AM
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Yes, I've seen that too. It's some sort of power draw issue related to the board. Caps for sure.

Who was the eBay seller? Some of them are infamous liars and scammers, when it comes to Panasonic VCRs. There some guy down in Houston that needs a good punch in the face from what I've read.

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01-07-2016, 08:23 AM
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The seller was not someone, who sells those regularly. A private seller in Pennsylvania. I will check the VCR out, and if I find, that it is not working properly, I am gonna contact the seller. I am confident, since I payed through PayPal, that I will get my money back, if I find anything wrong.
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01-07-2016, 11:49 AM
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From personal experience a dim display is often the early stage of capacitor failure. On my 1980 a noticeably dimmer display presaged total display blackout and the other bad cap artifacts by a couple years.

Power supply noise is hit and miss. It may be caused by slight vibration in windings or loose laminations in a transformer/coil in the supply that can vary with current.
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  #19  
01-08-2016, 06:29 PM
MrTIM MrTIM is offline
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Ok, so I got the system set up.
One problem is, I cannot go to FullHD on the 9800 Pro AiW, because then the screen goes blank. I used the drivers in "ATI All-In-Wonder Setup (180-V01084-100)" in this forum. Other than that the system is fast and stable (The CPU is a E4600).

But I think something is either wrong with the VCR or the Capture Card.
Attached you find a screen cap. The video is very dark distorted and colorless. I will try to find a TV with S-vid input to see if it is the VCR.

Edit: The same result on the TV. Hooked up visa s-video..


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Last edited by MrTIM; 01-08-2016 at 06:46 PM.
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  #20  
01-08-2016, 07:34 PM
dpalomaki dpalomaki is offline
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Quote:
I cannot go to FullHD...
Not sure what you have in mind here, but full HD is 1920x1080 with square pixels, and VHS is analog, nominally 480 lines of interlaced image (for NTSC, digitally generally 720x480 with non-square pixels).

Try the composite video output direct to your TV (yellow jack). While composite is not recommended for capture, it can tell if you have serious issues with the VCR. The composite output signal is derived from the s-video outputs (by mixing the Y and C signals). As a last resort you could try the channel 3 RF output.
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