Quantcast VHS to 2011 MacBook Pro workflow, JVC to HDMI? - digitalFAQ Forum
  #1  
08-22-2018, 11:29 AM
Sillihead Sillihead is offline
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Equipment

Panasonic DMR-EH75v (component and HDMI out) for VHS
JVC BR-S378u (just lost power) have to fix
TVOneTask 1TBc

So far I am able to get component and HDMI out from internal VHS on the deck. I am thinking that I could fix my JVC BR deck and do the following workflow:

VHS tape play in JVC BR-S378u to TVOneTask 1TBC to Panasonic DMR-EH75v to Matrox MX02 (via express 34 card/slot) to macbook pro 17" and use FCP and capture whatever I want... probably 8bit uncompressed. Or use other software.

Has anyone ever tried anything close to this or the same? and if not, any suggestions/ideas/thoughts?

I am not in the market for a new or old pc with Windows at this time.

Thanks

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Yes, Sillihead I can help answer your own question. No one cares or has any input here in this dead forum. Good luck my friend. May you find the answers you are looking for in more of a niche forum that talks about this stuff.
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  #2  
08-25-2018, 03:00 PM
sanlyn sanlyn is offline
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It doesn't take much to browse a few forum posts that have dealt with exactly the same questions and same situation. To summarize without repeating everything from dozens (maybe hundreds) of previous posts:

- A DVD/VHS combo machine is one of the worst, lowest quality means of playing/capturing VHS source.

- Your JVC is a an entry level, so-so quality, noisy player with no line-level correction. Expect a lot of noise, vertical wiggles, frame judder, and line twitter, and frequent dropouts. No correction for scanline distortion errors possible after capture. A line-level tbc is essential for VHS work. You're wasting your time otherwise. Note that your external tbc won't correct scanline timing distortion.

- Mac is either uncompressed, lower quality lossy DV, or lossy ProRes. Good luck trying to clean the usual VHS defects or other restoration work; Mac has very little software (i.e, none) for doing so. All you can do is maybe a little color correction with someone's Mac software and some cut-and-join, then spend a bundle on encoders and authoring apps for Mac. Or use iMovie, which would be no better than your DVD/VHS combo. At least you muight get some good encoding results and effects with something like Final Cut Pro, but that still won't help with VHS cleanup.

- With no VHS cleanup and the video processing limitations of a Mac, you're better off repairing your JVC and recording directly to DVD on your combo unit. The results will look pretty much like the results from the above, with much less time and angst.

But if you really want to stick with a Mac system, visit and study some of the professional mastering blogs and sites, and bring at least seven figures in cash plus months of shop training, and you can do better.

And I'm not kidding.

Last edited by sanlyn; 08-25-2018 at 03:12 PM.
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  #3  
08-26-2018, 03:48 AM
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lordsmurf lordsmurf is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sillihead View Post
TVOneTask 1TBc
What is the serial number? If the unit is too new, you have a defective TBC with known problems. It's essentially an AVT-8710, and suffers the same issues.
See also: Is my new AVT-8710 DOA? (screenshots/clips of error)

Quote:
VHS tape play in JVC BR-S378u to TVOneTask 1TBC to Panasonic DMR-EH75v to Matrox MX02 (via express 34 card/slot) to macbook pro 17" and use FCP and capture whatever I want... probably 8bit uncompressed. Or use other software.
Has anyone ever tried anything close to this or the same? and if not, any suggestions/ideas/thoughts?
Will that work? Perhaps.
The first concern is that the model of VCR is ancient (from early 90s), and overall quality is not as great as the mid/late 90s to early 2000s models

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sillihead View Post
No one cares or has any input here in this dead forum. Good luck my friend. May you find the answers you are looking for in more of a niche forum that talks about this stuff.
(1) You're a Free Member.
(2) This isn't a dead forum.
(3) Your thread title didn't really describe this question.

Furthermore, at the top of every page is this: When Will My Question Be Answered?
Quote:
Free Members are answered on a "time available" basis. Your question may be answered after only a few minutes, or it may be answered after several days have passed. It just depends on our schedule and project queue. At some point, however, we will get to your question.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sanlyn View Post
- A DVD/VHS combo machine is one of the worst, lowest quality means of playing/capturing VHS source.
Very true -- though there were a few rare exceptions to that rules; as is always the case with every rules. However his proposed workflow is jsut to use it as an HDMI passthrough.

Quote:
Expect a lot of noise, vertical wiggles
For that VCR, it is the main concern. It has some other nifty edit bay type features, from the analog days, but none of them really matter when the signal has timing errors on screen. The others (that the deck can adjust) can be corrected in digital post-capture, but not those timing wiggles.

Quote:
Mac is either uncompressed, lower quality lossy DV, or lossy ProRes. Good luck trying to clean the usual VHS defects or other restoration work; Mac has very little software (i.e, none) for doing so. All you can do is maybe a little color correction with someone's Mac software and some cut-and-join, then spend a bundle on encoders and authoring apps for Mac.
At least you muight get some good encoding results and effects with something like Final Cut Pro, but that still won't help with VHS cleanup.
I cannot stress that enough.
Trivia: These days, honestly, Final Cut is out, and Adobe CC is in. Apple just does not care about its video users anymore. Not that they ever did.

Quote:
With no VHS cleanup and the video processing limitations of a Mac, you're better off repairing your JVC and recording directly to DVD on your combo unit. The results will look pretty much like the results from the above, with much less time and angst.
I think DV is better than Panasonic DVD MPEG encoders. Bad vs. worse.

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  #4  
08-26-2018, 02:25 PM
hodgey hodgey is online now
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As I noted in another thread, lossless capture on macOS is possible with some capture devices. I don't know what application the matrox uses, maybe it can pick up the UT video codec if it is installed as well?

If you have S-Video or other analog inputs on the matrox, it may be worth testing sending the signal directly to it, I've seen some claims that it has a built-in TBC https://community.avid.com/forums/p/83555/469725.aspx, but it's kind of hard to verify. At the very least, you could go directly from the TBC to the matrox box.

Also note that when capturing via HDMI you may run into issues with HDCP if the box doing the conversion thinks the material is copy protected. It's possible to get around this using certain HDMI splitters.
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  #5  
09-04-2018, 12:07 AM
Sillihead Sillihead is offline
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I am impressed.. Thanks for replying everyone.

Just a little background for context: My expertise is in Final Cut Pro. I am a certified APPLE Final Cut Pro trainer and professional editor. I started out in Premiere in the old days and used all of the software that has been mentioned for capturing analog on PC like virtual dub... Matrox cards.... etc.. However, I am starting to build a capture solution around my mac... despite all the hard earned opinions mostly against it. With the little time I have had lately, which explains my urgency and seeming impatience, I am learning a lot here and very grateful for it. I will be using Final Cut Pro 7 on an older mac with older OSX so that the MOTU will work.

Here are my assets so far:

1) MOTU HD Express with pci-e (HDMI in/out, composite in/out, S-video in/out. I can capture 4:2:2 uncompressed 8 or 10bit, RS422, h264 and a bunch of other codecs provided by the MOTU plugin for FCP. I can color correct and do whatever in post. I am not concerned about getting the raw capture to my mac from this point. Its the source media that I am concerned about.... the deck and TBC. All the preconditioning before capture.

2) ONETASK Serial # (2238341004519)
3) JVC BR-378
4) Panasonic DMR-EH75V (Pass-through) to test if HDMI or component makes any difference out to the MOTU. Not sure how this deck is able to pass s-video to HDMI out etc... It has to have some kind of digital conversion/processing going on in order to do this? TBC? Panasonic made it so that you can play vhs tapes and watch on a flat screen. Very unique.

I have been looking online for decks that are on the short list here. I like the AG-1080P since that was my first deck for editing back in 1990 .... but looking at other decks as well for TBC. I don't have to use the ONETASK if it's junk or if the DMR doesn't do anything to improve the image.

I am looking to get recommendations here thus far.... I think getting the best deck available is probably the missing link here for what I am about to attempt. Get a SVHS deck with best line/frame TBC....

I will keep you guys posted throughout this process... especially for those folks stuck with Macs.

Thanks

Last edited by Sillihead; 09-04-2018 at 12:23 AM.
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  #6  
09-04-2018, 12:23 AM
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lordsmurf lordsmurf is offline
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Serial # 2238xxx/etc is a defective TBC. The has frame sticking, ghosting, and many other issues.
Same issues as the other Cypress TBC: Is my new AVT-8710 DOA? (screenshots/clips of error)
If it doubt, open it up. Do you see AverLogic chips? If so, it's a dud.

That VCR is not suggested ... unless (maybe) using with a passthrough Panasonic ES10/15. I'm not aware of the EH75 having passthrough, or at least to the same degree/quality (and honestly, anything less isn't worth it).

MOTU? I'm not just a toon collector, but toy collector. To me, MOTU is Masters of the Universe (He-Man), and I doubt that's what you mean here.

I still have a few recommend JVC decks available: For sale: JVC S-VHS VCRs with TBC (several models)
The ES for passthrough, too.
PM if interested.

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  #7  
09-04-2018, 12:45 AM
Sillihead Sillihead is offline
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I will check out your current list of available VCRs. Question: why do some decks have bold lettering on the VCR Buying Guide?

Thanks

Last edited by Sillihead; 09-04-2018 at 12:57 AM.
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  #8  
09-04-2018, 12:47 AM
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At one point, it meant "most suggested", but the list needs updating.

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  #9  
09-05-2018, 08:37 AM
Eric-Jan Eric-Jan is offline
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What a negativity here.... Have done some tests now here with my Panasonic DMR ES35V has a perfect TBC, even when i fastforward, my Intensity Shuttle does not drop frames or blackscreens, just keeps capturing with my Macbook Pro early 2015,
BlackMagic Design has some great software, Davinci Resolve, Media Express, is all you need. well..... Handbrake is also a good one but sometimes makes my Sony Bravia tv crash....
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  #10  
09-05-2018, 09:14 AM
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lordsmurf lordsmurf is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric-Jan View Post
What a negativity here....
Yes, very much so, but deserved. And it's just as a much a lament as anything else. I wish more viable quality capture options existed not just for Mac, but Linux, and even the newer Windows 8/10 OS. But it doesn't. We're largely locked into an XP/7 world for analog capture, at least if quality matters, and anything beyond it has caveats and limitations.

Quote:
Have done some tests now here with my Panasonic DMR ES35V has a perfect TBC
It's not a true TBC. It's TBC(ish). Use it, but know where it fails to perform like a true external framesync TBC. Also realize it has drawback in terms of taking a quality hit, especially posterization artifacts. As long as you understand where the limits are, you're fine.

Quote:
even when i fastforward, my Intensity Shuttle does not drop frames or blackscreens, just keeps capturing with my Macbook Pro early 2015,
That's mostly the frame sync in action, not the TBC. And the Panasonic has always been more frame sync than TBC. What you're describing means it works as intended.

What I don't know about this exact model is how strong it is. For years I was told the ES20/ES25 were "just like" the ES10/15. But it's not even close, a pitiful weak pale shadow of the earlier models. I'd be interesting to test this model, but I'd need to find one cheap, or one to borrow.

Quote:
BlackMagic Design has some great software, Davinci Resolve, Media Express, is all you need. well.....
Yes, indeed! I still want to give DaVinci Resolve a good project, too ingrained into using Premiere after 20 years. I need to find the right now, and enough time to learn it more in depth.

Quote:
Handbrake is also a good one but sometimes makes my Sony Bravia tv crash....
Handbrake is limited newbieware, pretty craptastic and overrated. If you want something better, something very powerful, look at Hybrid by Selur. I've been using that even since the departed (RIP) member Goldwingfahrer turned me onto it some years ago.

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  #11  
09-05-2018, 10:56 AM
Eric-Jan Eric-Jan is offline
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Yeah, TBC isn't mentioned in the manual itself, but in my opinion it does a good job, and the capture devices of BMD are picky about that, and.... it has a component output which can be set to i or p,
and i see HDMI on vcr's will not always work, and some capture devices with HDMI input won't go as high as 50 or 60p, i do see a very fine wavy pattern with some vhs recordings, but after mp4 compression it's not noticable anymore, just tried Hybrid here, i had to search for the controlls a bit, but it worked straight a way for me, i will try it some more, but it needs some exploring for me seems also to do it's job fast, and with multiple passes, nice ! Yes, you should really try Davinci Resolve ! it's for free and very complete, only Pro or network, denoise options work in the one time fee (Studio) version, The crop and transform options work very nice, drag with mouse, to get a clean border/rim, (removing beam return etc..)
One advice: avoid the Intensity Shuttle USB version, it has problems with most chipsets, the Thunderbold2 version works great with my Macbook Pro (early2015)
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  #12  
09-06-2018, 12:08 AM
Sillihead Sillihead is offline
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Just picked up a Mitsubishi HS-HD2000 for $120. That will be my deck moving forward for this project.

MOTU HD-EXPRESS
Mitsu HS-HD2000
One Tech (has the aver media chips!) No ghosting or artifacts yet.. I will know for sure in time.
Panasonic DMR-EH75V

Should be interesting to see what happens.
Will look into Resolve... not sure if it plays nice with my MOTU HD.

Will provide samples.... bad or good. I am really a sillihead... i love this kind of stuff... Can't wait to monkey with this particular concoction of antique electronics. I have some old tubes just in case I need to get Medieval on this stuff. lol
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  #13  
09-06-2018, 05:35 AM
Eric-Jan Eric-Jan is offline
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I now see the Mitsu HS-HD2000 is a Digital VHS VCR, and has a DV/iLink Firewire input/output, but with a different protocol,
did they not come up with a hack/driver for this ? that would be nice to capture ! i love this feature on DV camcorders with A/V input..... ADVC100 wise
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  #14  
09-06-2018, 08:46 AM
ehbowen ehbowen is offline
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I've been looking for a Windows driver for a Mitsubishi FireWire port for several years now...I have two HS-HD2000U VCRs. They really are great machines for analog playback, but it looks as if their FireWire capability never went beyond the associated Mitsubishi digital TV sets.

Of course, even if I could get the FireWire working, I question whether its video performance on an analog VHS tape would match that of the analog S-Video output going to an All-In-Wonder AGP card through a good external TBC. I'm sure it would make a D-VHS tape look great...but how many of those are out there?
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