VHS archiving project, feedback wanted, where to buy TBC?
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Hi, I've been lurking and reading through this community which has been very helpful. Now I want to get involved. :)
So my project is to archive my family's collection of VHS tapes ranging from 1993-2006. The footage was recorded to compact VHS tape cassette (VHS-C) using a Panasonic hand held camcorder. The collection contains around 60 cassette's. I think these tapes have a 30 minute run time in short play mode. So approx estimate of 30 hours of footage to archive. Also I'm from the UK so this is PAL format material. I'm in no rush and looking to embark on a project to achieve a high quality outcome. I've attached some footage I have extracted as a test. I want to discuss what I can do to improve the process before I go into full production mode and tackle the whole collection over time. Here is what I have so far: 1) Panasonic VHS-C to VHS Adapter cassette 2) Sony SLV-SE740 VHS Player -> SCART Output -> SCART to Composite Adaptor 3) Composite Cable -> August VBP100 Capture Device Amazon Link -> USB 4) VirutalDub Attached Files: Test.mp4 - Raw capture, only filter applied is to de-interlace keeping both frames PAL (25fps x 2 = 50fps), compressed for upload using Handbrake to mp4 H.264 Test-Filters - same as above with the addition of filters in Virtualdub (Camcorder Color denoise 1.6 MT, Color Mil 2.1) There are aspects of the test footage attached that I'm not happy with 1) The extreme wobble at the top of the frames 2) The colour which seems to give the impression of a red sunset evening. (Too much red?). Tried playing with the color mil filter, my attempts are shown in the second attached video (Test-filters.mp4). I'm not sure I improved things! 3) General tracking wobble? So in summary looking to discuss the following: 1) General feedback on the process so far? 2) My research suggests the best thing I can do to improve the quality of the capture is to use a TBC 3) TBC - I've tried searching but they seem to be impossible to get hold of. So I want to ask the community if there are other avenues to explore for getting hold of one and if this is as worth while as I believe it might be. Thanks, JD |
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#2 is a serious problem. SONY has made no recommended tape players after 1991. The model you mention is an entry level machine that lacks robust tracking and has no line tbc. It's responsible for the upper twitter and distortion in your samples. In case you didn't notice, the lower third as well of your sample has plenty of wiggle and warping as wel, and that doesn't count the head-switching noise at the bottom of the frame. The top-side distortion is known as flagging. the overall frame jitter and nervousness is due to lack of a line-level tbc and to lack of a frame-level tbc. Each type of tbc solves different problems. There are plenty of frame-level tbc's about, most of them are in dreadful working condition or are outright defects out of the box. Working frame-level tbc's are often listed in the forum's Marketplace section. Their performance has been tested. Line-level tbc's are available as external units only in the form of hideously expensive pro shop units. Most users get their line-level tbc's builtin as components of recommended high-end tape players, which in good condition offer playback that will dwarf the poor quality of entry level machines. Such players are often available in the Marketplace as well. Another solution that is available are legacy Panasonic DMR-Es10 and Es15 DVD recorders -- not used as recorders, but used as pass-thru units between player and capture device in order to take advantage of the pass-thru's effective line- and frame-level corrective circuits. These Panasonic units are found as either NTSC or as PAL units, which are not interchangeable and which should be used with their aggressive noise reduction circuits disabled to prevent motion smearing and posterizing effects. It's possible to try other DVD machines, but most will not function in pass-thru mode or will be far less powerful or effective. You will find a great many examples of posted videos created using pass-thru tbc's. People have used, demonstrated, tested, and discussed pass-thru units for several years in tech forums, so it's surprising that you haven't encountered them earlier: https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/...hat-do-you-use. Item #3 is also a serious problem. Unless you have some reason for using composite output, you should always use s-video for analog tape capture. You'll get less noise, more detail, and cleaner color with s-video. If your player doesn't have s-video output, you're at a troublesome disadvantage. Quote:
The deinterlacer recommended for restoration work is QTGMC. Quote:
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There is a Datavideo tbc-1000 on EBay right now, looks clean but time is short, 3 hours from this posting.
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Thanks for the reply sanlyn. I appreciate your time and input!
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Noted about the SONY player. I want to explore alternatives now. Quote:
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so: 1) I'm going to research for a new player with line TBC AND/OR external frame TBC using ebay and the marketplace here 2) I'm going to research plan B to use that DVD pass through approach 3) Once I've got the "devices" I can turn my attention to the software side improvements I'll start with Ebay and the marketplace here. Are there any other recommend resources to explore to get hold of better player devices and or TBC's? Thanks again! Quote:
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I've seen lordsmurf post about his JVC HR-S7965EK. There are some available on Ebay. Is this a good option?
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/JVC-Super...YAAOSwrxVboAtg |
I won't go further in this thread, just to say sorry you missed it, it looked very nice, of course appearance is not a test. Follow the Marketplace here, and Ebay, be diligent in browsing. I have a nice workflow but I still look around! You might lucky on FB Marketplace, or Mercari. Crab...out.
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If you don't know, is is mostly metal? Or perhaps just take a photo of it and upload to a reply. Quote:
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A total accident, and I sometimes wonder if others would have noticed this. I do not recall anybody posting to any site about it beforehand. At the time, I was heavy into gear testing, discussing gear with broadcast engineers that may have been forgotten to time. My claim to fame. :laugh: Quote:
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You had better be careful with eBay, though it's not quite as bad in Europe as it is the USA. It's really, really bad here, about 90%+ of all stuff is defective in some way, including all the BS "tested" and "working" auctions. (Putting a ratty old retail tape into a VCR, and seeing a picture, any picture, is not testing!) |
Don't know how "far" you want to go in video capturing, but the mentioned Panasonic ES10/15 does have also component video output, (i have a ES35) i'm using a Macbook with a Intensity Shuttle ,(thunderbold2 interface) even better quality then s-video,
plus you can set the component video output to "progressive" so you don't have to de-interlace in post, so it makes that to an quick work flow. Videoclip |
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Your sample doesn't look necessarily unwatchably bad, but there's a lot of frame blending. Either: - the source has it - or the Panasonic recorder in use relies on blended deinterlacing Hard to know which it is, since PAL TV wasn't always converted well from NTSC masters. :hmm: |
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in the case where the de-interlacing is already done in the VCR, it looks fine to me, the clip is a result of that. |
btw. my guess is that it is easier to find a dvr/vcr that will give a rock solid picture image then to find the perfect external TBC to do that job.
The perfect way to start with transfering VHS to a pc, is that you would look for a DVR or VCR which has some form of stabilisation build-in, these are not the early VHS VCR models, a DVR is allready a better bet, because some form of stabilisation cirquitry was added for an external source, a build-in tv-tuner would already have a clean output. The tapes you have to transfer are recorded in-camera and not copies ? |
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Incidently I've found this: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Panasonic...p2056016.l4276 Its a Panasonic NV-HS930B S-VHS VCR. Good option? |
If someone is in interested in an SVHS Panasonic FS200 or an SVHS Blaupunkt RTV 950 Recorder. I would sell one. I will receive both recorders back this weekend from a repairing service where they for example replace the capacitors from the power adaptor and a few other things. More details can I give when I have seen the repairing report. I will made some capture tests and if they work well I will put one of the units here on the marketplace. Item location would be Germany.
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