Quantcast VHS/VHS-C PAL project workflow? - digitalFAQ Forum
  #1  
01-29-2019, 03:46 AM
Lolmen Lolmen is offline
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Hello!
I'm from Pal region, I wan't to capture lot of (20 years old) VHS and camcorder VHS-C cassetes recorded in SP and LP.

For now my setup are:

JVC HR-S5800EG > S-video > PANASONIC DMR ES15 > Component > Blackmagic Intensity Shuttle USB

for VHS-C cassetes I'd like to use cassete adapter VW-TCA7E (VQL7913-1) but VCR make tracking line in bottom part of screen and seems like I need little more tracking - (vcr head up) steps to get rid of it that is VCR can't go, and since VCR can't I had found exact Camcorder that was used for recording this tapes Panasonic RX-7, it handles tracking line better, almost all, but it doesn't have automatic tracking, so I need time to time on single cassete add hand to +/- buttons, also it use composite (CVBC out) that present more composite color noise (squares artifacts) so I guess it's better to do some with VCR that case, or try to find VHS-C camcorder which have S-video out, but don't know any.

Panasonic DMR has TBC setting like auto > line > frame, so select last one, comb filter on, and progressive on, seems progressive get rid of lot's of signal noise and make colors more pop (but presenting little 1-2 pixel vertical jitter visible on texts).

Questions is:
How good this setup, maybe I can add something in chain to get better color noise / horizontal tearing.

I tried s-video to hdmi 1080p scaler seems lot better in aliasing picture than any software does, even to convert footage to HD seems more bad, scaler problem is that color fringing artifacts like green magenta edge noise. Goal is to archive videos and make it viewable in 1080.

Ideas are try composite to HDMI scaler, or if won't help, maybe get Panasonic DMR-EH68 it has HDMI out, and use it as second passthrough for DMR-ES15 composite out, to get HDMI via BM Intensity shuttle.

Also looking to get better VCR - JVC HR-7600 EU, prices make me thinking > does VCR and second passthrough DVD make such help that cost 500 bucks or maybe I'm need to looking for some other device?

Also does there is so big improvements JVC made in step from HR-5800 to HR-7600.

Thanks in advance.
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  #2  
01-29-2019, 03:55 AM
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lordsmurf lordsmurf is offline
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You probably need to manually realign the VCR to work with the badly-made tapes. There's a guide that I wrote in the forum a few months ago, how to realign a VCR. Just remember where everything was, so you can return it to proper positions when done with the bad tapes.

Don't let the ES15 deinterlace, use QTGMC after capture is really needed.

Blackmagic cards have notorious issues with SD on analog inputs, but apparently your component setup is a viable workflow in PAL. It wouldn't be my choice, but I won't fault you for using it.

HDMI scaling is a terrible idea.

VCR TBC has to be disabled for ES15 TBC to engage, but your main reason for ES15 doesn't appear to be TBC(ish) anyway, but rather the component crossover. So JVC 7600 with true line TBC, ES15 ignored, component out, may be better. The 7600 should be better built, more stable output.

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  #3  
01-29-2019, 08:32 AM
Lolmen Lolmen is offline
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I see, but I find nothing about TBC in 5800, so doesn't know to disable it.
Blackmagic seems work well with svideo and component, ES-15 TBCish usage needed, since if connect directly there is very Off horizontal sync occurs.
Does QTGMC will help to deinterlacing without twice vertical resolution loss as just skip top fields?
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  #4  
01-29-2019, 10:58 AM
hodgey hodgey is offline
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VW-TCA7E are well made and solid adapters, good choice.

Text jittering vertically is a typical artifact of not so great deinterlacing. Something like using QTGMC after capture would avoid that.

As noted by LS, either the camcorder recording the tapes or the JVC has bad alignment. If you have access to some other VCR it may give you a hint on whether the recordings or the VCR is misaligned.

If you want to go the route of DMR-EH68 -> HDMI, you will need a HDMI splitter or something else to get rid of the HDCP copy protection on the HDMI signal.

The HR-S5800 seems to be an older model, doubt it has any TBC function.

The QTGMC deinterlacer gives you 50/60 fps output and full vertical resolution.
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  #5  
01-29-2019, 11:08 AM
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I referred to 7600 having TBC, not 5800.

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  #6  
01-29-2019, 11:42 AM
Lolmen Lolmen is offline
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Ok, so exclude HDCP is not a big problem, but would it be better than just good component Ypbpr to hdmi upscaler 10-30$ vs 200$ DMR-EH68 + 5-10 to HDCP strip adapter ?

Also, may I do the deinterlace process through Adobe Premere or After Effects CC or I'm surely need to learn of QTGMC and this thing is do it better?

Head alignment is offsetted in original camcorder, it's not a VCR's problem that I have, proper recordings tracking well, and last vhs-c records from camcorder since 1998 to 2005 cause that noise line at bottom on all VCR's, I guess due to camcorder damage i.e. fall or something, but camcorder itself payback it well, so I guess if range of VCR's head movement expand a bit, it will do the job.

Also some copies made through camcorder backday through regular home vhs via composite (CVBS) so this tapes now presenting chroma shift (slight ghosting) effect.

My thoughs is to upgrade when it will be possible to 7600 VCR and insert in chain before/after DMR-15 thing like Leitch DPS 575. So to think about use it as pre filtering s-video, or using as passthrough for DMR-15 composite before scaler or capture device to fight with color noise and ghosting.

-- merged --

Maybe I can use this thing to get composite interlaced and do it by hardware?

CS2 Enhancer

or

OSSC
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  #7  
01-30-2019, 03:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lolmen View Post
Maybe I can use this thing to get composite interlaced and do it by hardware?
CS2 Enhancer
or
OSSC
Hardware deinterlacers are not necessarily better than QTGMC. And the older the hardware, the more inferior it will be.

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  #8  
01-31-2019, 08:40 PM
Lolmen Lolmen is offline
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So the last question is.
Captured signal may be kinda color block presented.
Like 4:1:0 or 4:1:1 vs regular 4:2:0 or even 4:2:2 and also 4:4:4

is there any color dithering filter exists that conform and smooth color depth from LD to HD ?
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  #9  
02-01-2019, 10:23 AM
Lolmen Lolmen is offline
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I have found some neat devices thad do 3d motion adaptive deinterlacing,
have spent tons of time for research what retrogamers do with it, and ancidently find some:

so:
1. CYPRESS CM-398DI or CM-398M
those two will make you ready for true capture at 720p signal from 480i/576i s-video, also they have 3d comb filters with DNR etc.
2. CM-347 or 348
those two will accept all formats like CVBS/S-video/Ypbpr RCA and output 720p or 1080i via VGA or DVI-I.
Last one cost more but That where I need this scaler/deinterlacer/denoiser to work with YpbPr signal via RCA.

So my idea soon to just get some VGA/DVI -> Hdmi adaptor to interconnect CM and BMD Shuttle via hdmi for capturing...

Will made blog about all my test already done in topic (make VHS look like DVD)
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