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  #1  
03-04-2019, 04:56 AM
ehbowen ehbowen is offline
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The next piece of gear I'd like to add to my setup is a monitor in the 27" to 32" range which has accurate color rendition. Price is an important factor, but I'm wanting to get something better than another super-cheapie. Any recommendations?
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  #2  
03-04-2019, 05:30 AM
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The ViewSonic VP2365 was my favorite for years. But that's also the problem: it's years old, now discontinued.
https://www.amazon.com/ViewSonic-VP2...language=en_US

My ViewSonic was severely misbehaving last year, believed to be failing.
So the hunt was on...

I settled on the LG ultrawide IPS, and then compared several modes, each about $350:

LG 34UM68-P 34" ultrawide IPS:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...language=en_US

LG 34WK650-W 34" ultrawide IPS:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...language=en_US

LG 34WK500-P 34" ultrawide IPS: (Best Buy exclusive)
https://www.bestbuy.com/site/lg-34wk...?skuId=6204327

Note: I went for 2160x1080 due to my eyesight, and limitations of the graphics cards. 2160x1080 was the max allowed, especially for DVI-D (and I use an expensive DVI switchbox for 3x computers). And 2K/4K/whatever is tiny text, I'd never do that resolution for a "small" monitor like this. It'd have to be at least 5' across, and 1' taller, to be legible for serious work.

I preferred the LG 34WK650-W from Amazon, due to the adjustable height.

None of them were overly different, in terms of the image quality. But I did buy a couple of each (then returned whatever wasn't needed), in order to compare variation in color quality between the units. And there was some. But it could be calibrated.

I actually got the best calibration from the Best Buy monitor. At the time, I knew somebody else looking for a good premium monitor, not used for video. So what I did was take the base from the 34WK650-W, and kept the 34WK500-P. And my friend got the Amazon monitor with the Best Buy base, which he liked. I bet you could get a "replacement" monitor stand direct from LG, if you insisted on the Best Buy "exclusive". (And the "exclusive" aspect is really just a slight variation on one of the other LG models, with the cheaper stand, so Best Buy can sell it without having to price match Amazon/etc, since it's a "different" model.)

Newegg had the 34WK650-W as well, but I prefer the Amazon return policy. I joined Prime for a while at the same time, nice promo offer.

Get one of those, you won't regret it. I was having constant issue with not enough screen real estate, and this is something I wished I've have done much earlier.

And BTW, that failing ViewSonic was fine. All of the quirks disappeared after being powered off for about 5 months. It's now in use for one of our capture station. Still excellent. And I took the older 5x4 IPS LG that setup had been using, as the monitor for my testing/dev build. Full circle, as I bought that LG way back in 2005 for about $500, and it still looks pretty good! It's had some moderate color shifting/tinting in past 14 years, but nothing you can't compensate for.

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  #3  
03-15-2019, 08:06 PM
Tig_ Tig_ is offline
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ehbowen, did you get a monitor and if so what are your thoughts after some use? Or are you still seeking suggestions? If so, a specific budget would help.

There are good reasons a BenQ PD3200Q is $500, a Dell UP3216Q is $1100, an EIZO CG318 is $4,000, and an FSI XM310K is $45,000; each is objectively better than the last. But the 80/20 rule applies and an expert colorist can do good work on a $300 Dell in a pink room—the room being the bigger problem.
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  #4  
03-15-2019, 08:42 PM
ofesad ofesad is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tig_ View Post
ehbowen, did you get a monitor and if so what are your thoughts after some use? Or are you still seeking suggestions? If so, a specific budget would help.

There are good reasons a BenQ PD3200Q is $500, a Dell UP3216Q is $1100, an EIZO CG318 is $4,000, and an FSI XM310K is $45,000; each is objectively better than the last. But the 80/20 rule applies and an expert colorist can do good work on a $300 Dell in a pink room—the room being the bigger problem.
Totally agree with Tig. I happen to have a BenQ PD2700Q and the colors are SUPERB!

Now I can't imagine my life without this monitor.

I would not recommend any other brand. Eizo and Benq are the best if you are looking for "color accutare".

ANY other will have some issue sooner than later, even Dell's.
In my experience at least, the others end up having some panel issue or electronics failing.

Not saying that BenQ or Eizo are bullet proof, but they are really really good in almos every aspect.

Also, Asus has released a new series de monitors for this market, Karl Taylor did a review of it. For the price was quite good. Check it out.
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  #5  
03-15-2019, 09:43 PM
sanlyn sanlyn is online now
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Some monitors are more "color accurate" than others. but no monitor is accurate out of the box. Not ever.
I don't know what you mean by that monitor's color being "superb!" What does superb mean, exactly? How close is it to D6500 standard? Can you produce a graph showing how your monitor achieves an ideal luminance and color response curve? What is the gamma your set is tuned to? What is its color temperature? What hardware and software was used for calibration?

Below is an RGB grayscale response curve for my calibrated LG LED IPS monitor. It shows a maximum color error of less than 2 from IRE 20 to IR 100, with lower-IRE accuracy to within the error limits of the Ii measuring device. What's the max color error on yours? How level is your overall RGB response curve?


Below is a gamma response curve (left) for the calibrated LG from IRE 0 to IRE 100. The blue markers are the ideal target gamma 1.8, the yellow is the measured response. The ideal luminance curve (right) for an LED monitor is the path of the light blue markers along the right. The dark blue lines are the LG's measured luminance curve for all three colors-- the lines exactly follow the ideal luminance response curve.


Below is the CIE color density match for three primaries and three secondaries. The d-level measure means "saturation" in more basic terms and is here ciomparted to the D6500 standard in an sRGB chart. Is your red a pure Red, or is it corrupt with a non-Red tint, or is it over- or under-saturated? The CIE chart below for the calibrated LG shows exceptional density accuracy, except green being about 0.3% off. How about yours?


When I say that the overall performance of that LG is excellent with regards to the factors that objectively measure accuracy, it's not just my opinion and and isn't a purely subjective or arbitrary use of colorful adjectives. Of course, your opinion matters a great deal to you. But it's not very useful for those who are interested in accuracy.

Isn't accuracy what the title of this thread is supposed to be about?


Attached Images
File Type: png garyscale response and color error.png (275.3 KB, 31 downloads)
File Type: png gamma response and luminance curve.png (238.8 KB, 35 downloads)
File Type: png CIE color density response.png (268.1 KB, 31 downloads)

Last edited by sanlyn; 03-15-2019 at 10:28 PM.
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  #6  
03-15-2019, 10:23 PM
ofesad ofesad is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sanlyn View Post
Some monitors are more "color accurate" than others. but no monitor is accurate out of the box. Not ever.
I don't know what you mean by that monitor's colo0r being "superb!" What does superb mean, exactly? How close is it to D6500 standard? Can you produce a graph showing how your monitor achieves a luminance-gamma ratio? What is the gamma your set is tuned to? What is its color temperature? What hardware and software was used for calibration?

BenQ Monitors come pre-calibrated, so they are mostly "accurate" out of the box, at least in my experience, the one's I've tested with my Spyder 5, they were mostly well calibrated (or the Spyder did a bad reading).
They also include a sheet of the calibration made, the specs, values and more.


Of course, to keep a monitor calibrated you must have a calibration sensor, like the Datacolor Spyder 5 I use or similar.

In my excitement, what I meant by "colors are superb", is that comparing the old TN panels color representation or more common or cheap monitors, the color representation of the BenQ panel is SUPERB compared to others I've tested or used. Even Dell's. Also keeping in mind the value and price.

Also the monitor construction is something to be noticed. BenQ's are really well made, it doesn't feel chep at all.
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  #7  
03-15-2019, 10:34 PM
sanlyn sanlyn is online now
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A calibration report is a different story than posting superlatives. I wish others would back up their assessments with real numbers.
But as you say, back up the sales pitch with your own numbers.
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  #8  
03-16-2019, 12:00 AM
Tig_ Tig_ is offline
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Even if I posted my PD3200U's factory calibration report, it'd be a statistically insignificant anecdote. And there's no disproving "no monitor is accurate out of the box" because you didn't define "accurate." However, as concluded in this review from THG (which should carry more weight than me, a random forum guy) showing out-of-box BenQ PD grayscale tracking, gamma, and color deviance of <0.3, 0.8, and 1.11 respectively, directly from the factory its accuracy beats that of some professional displays after calibration.

I'm not saying you shouldn't calibrate. You should. But right up to a $45k Flanders (and beyond), budget will dictate how accurate of a monitor one can get, all other features being equal. And other features may be more important than accuracy past a certain point. So this is all moot without a concrete budget.
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  #9  
03-16-2019, 12:06 AM
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lordsmurf lordsmurf is offline
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Sometimes the OOB (out of box) values are already excellent, sometimes not. Either way, I verify.

The LG came with a factory calibration, but I never trust those reports. It's just a sheet of free (and rough) toilet paper. I always calibrate by eyesight first, and then tweak to the values -- and then sometimes tweak some more to what my eyes tell me. Calibration tools as just computers, and computers are stupid.

I'm not really into measurebating.

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  #10  
03-19-2019, 07:44 PM
ehbowen ehbowen is offline
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I haven't bought a monitor yet, but the $500 range is what I'm aiming for. Once I have it, what more do I need to verify (and correct) its calibration?
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  #11  
03-19-2019, 11:06 PM
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lordsmurf lordsmurf is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tig_ View Post
because you didn't define "accurate."
Oh yeah, good point, glad you brought it up. Calibration for video is way different than calibration for web photos, or printed photos. One thing I like about my new LG is I can switch between two settings banks for video and photo printing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ehbowen View Post
what more do I need to verify (and correct) its calibration?
Something like a Spyder, and then check it with Avia.

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  #12  
03-20-2019, 09:57 AM
sanlyn sanlyn is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tig_ View Post
you didn't define "accurate."
Yes, I did. D6500, sRGB, and monitor luminance response curve standards are very well and precisely defined, and are used by calibration software and devices.
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  #13  
03-20-2019, 05:16 PM
Tig_ Tig_ is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sanlyn View Post
Yes, I did. D6500, sRGB, and monitor luminance response…
What you did was name some standards. Accuracy is how close to those standards a display gets. Without asserting where we draw the line, this is an ambiguous conversation about our favorite displays. We can do better.


----------DEFINING ACCURACY----------

GRAYSCALE TRACKING—seek the lowest dE (specifically dE00), a measure of deviation from the standard as perceived by the human eye:
  • fair: <3 dE
  • good: <2 dE
  • excellent: <1 dE

GAMMA—1.8 is more a legacy function; 2.2 or BT.1886 are appropriate in most use-cases today. We measure this in gamma values range and average deviation (in percent) from the function. EBU 3321 is interesting, but anyway I'll suggest:
  • fair: <0.5 range, <5% deviation
  • good: <0.25 range, <2.5% deviation
  • excellent: <0.15 range, <1.5% deviation

COLOR GAMUT ACCURACY—again we seek the lowest dE:
  • fair: <3.5 dE
  • good: <2.5 dE
  • excellent: <1.5 dE
These are just my own suggested values; it's totally fair to adjust according to your needs. At the end of the day, a good colorist can do good work within these parameters. I'd also recommend >1000:1 contrast, >100% sRGB coverage, and <20% deviance in panel uniformity. Input lag and pixel response are generally irrelevant for video production, but important for gaming.


----------RECOMMENDATIONS----------

@ehbowen, the BenQ PD2700Q mentioned by ofesad really is worth your consideration. $330 gets you a 27" 2560x1440 display which will provide >1000:1 contrast, 105% sRGB coverage, and "fair" to "excellent" accuracy (even without calibration, but again you should calibrate). Its greatest weakness may be panel uniformity; overall I doubt you'll do better for the price. The 32" version (PD3200Q) is $495.

The LG 34WK650 trades blows with the PD2700Q in accuracy etc., at $350 for a 34" 2560x1080 ultrawide (note it's smaller than an equivalent 16:9). 99% sRGB coverage. Better for gaming, offers HDR10 support; vertical resolution would cut into HD workspace, but big pixels nice for less-than-perfect vision.

The Dell U2719D gets you 4K at 27" for $440—more here. 4k @27" would be excessively tiny pixels for me personally.

If you're open to 24" displays, many more options become available. If budget is flexible I do recommend the BenQ PD3200U; I bought one because it's a steal at $700 for 4K @32" with "excellent" accuracy. Finally, I haven't researched displays much lately so there are probably options I haven't seen.
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