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  #1  
03-28-2019, 06:19 AM
Mazufa Mazufa is offline
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Hello

What Are The Differences Between ATI Tv Wonder 600 usb 2.0 and ATI Tv Wonder 650 usb capture devices? Is Ati Tv Wonder 650 usb a good choice for digitizing videos?


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File Type: jpg ATI 650.JPG (30.0 KB, 7 downloads)
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  #2  
03-28-2019, 07:19 AM
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lordsmurf lordsmurf is offline
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650 has AGC issues, you don't want it.

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  #3  
03-28-2019, 07:23 AM
Mazufa Mazufa is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lordsmurf View Post
650 has AGC issues, you don't want it.
Okay maybe I have to forget about it. I have tried to look for the ATI TV Wonder 600 USB 2.0 capture device but I could not find it anywhere. I would have the money for it right away and it would be quick. My customers' cartridges are waiting.
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  #4  
03-28-2019, 01:40 PM
captainvic captainvic is offline
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Mazufa, have you seen this?

http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/marketplace/8253-sale-ati-600-a.html



Quote:
Originally Posted by Mazufa View Post
Okay maybe I have to forget about it. I have tried to look for the ATI TV Wonder 600 USB 2.0 capture device but I could not find it anywhere. I would have the money for it right away and it would be quick. My customers' cartridges are waiting.
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  #5  
03-28-2019, 02:46 PM
sanlyn sanlyn is offline
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An alternative to the ATI 600 USB is the similar but heavily discounted Diamond Multimedia VC500 USB. It's been popular for many years. Many members here use both the ATI and the VC500.
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  #6  
03-28-2019, 02:57 PM
Mazufa Mazufa is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sanlyn View Post
An alternative to the ATI 600 USB is the similar but heavily discounted Diamond Multimedia VC500 USB. It's been popular for many years. Many members here use both the ATI and the VC500.
The problem is I have not found the ATI TV Wonder 600 2.0 USB capture device for anything. One found on Amazon but not delivered to Finland: (I haven't found anything else. It would be good if it's available if you want more information.) Is Diamond VC500 worth buying?

Did you mean that this would be as good as ati?: https://www.amazon.com/Diamond-VC500-digital-converter-Software/dp/B000VM60I8
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  #7  
03-28-2019, 06:04 PM
sanlyn sanlyn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mazufa View Post
The problem is I have not found the ATI TV Wonder 600 2.0 USB capture device for anything. One found on Amazon but not delivered to Finland: (I haven't found anything else. It would be good if it's available if you want more information.) Is Diamond VC500 worth buying?

Did you mean that this would be as good as ati?: https://www.amazon.com/Diamond-VC500.../dp/B000VM60I8
We don't recommend capture devices that don't perform within desired parameters. The VC500 has been used and tested by advanced amateurs for several years. I think it's as good as the ATI and probably a little better because it doesn't clip blacks at y-16 and has visibly better shadow detail and dynamic range in many videos that require it.
There are several posts that used the vC500 but the only frame-by-frame comparison using the same video was done with an AIW 7500 (which is superior to the ATI 600 and VC500 alike). There there are 3 very demanding shots (very bright, very dark, high-contrast daylight shot) where the VC500 acquits itself quite well -- to the point where you would have difficulty deciding between which card you prefer. The avi's are lossless YUY2 captures using the huffYUV codec:

ATI 7500 lossless capture: http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/atta...500-aiw7500avi
VC500 lossless capture: http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/atta...-7500-vc500avi
If you don't have HuffYUV I suggest that you'd better get your hands on it (). The 32-bit version works quite well in 64-bit Windows. v2.1.1 https://www.videohelp.com/software/HuffYUV


Images from the two avi's show similarities but minor differences due to capture level precision and other factors, but the difficult high contrast scene below looks pretty good in both versions. The images are unfiltered direct frame caps from the original YUY2 lossless avi's:
7500 PCI

VC500

Sometimes clipped blacks can't be noticed (I have no trouble seeing it immediately), but when it occurs it can't be repaired after capture and is often painfully during processing and display:


ATI 600 capture: Arrows point to crushed detail in image and to unsafe areas on histogram. Dark details clipped and greyed-out, detail can't be recovered. Note that black borders in the image aren't zero-black black but are dark grey.



ATI 600 capture with low dynamic range in murky shadow area, no detail can be recovered for enhancement by brightening the image, which simply washes out to muddy grays. The numbers in the left-hand column clearly show that the minimum (darkest) value in the image is y=16.


No one has posted other frame-by-frame comparisons between the ATI600 and VC500 using the same video for both devices, but there are plenty of examples of VC500 caps showing that the VC500 doesn't clip at y=16 and that it does retain darker-than-y=16 detail for further recovery in post processing where needed. The images below are frame captures from a lossless capture from the Memphis Belle retail VHS:


VC500 capture: bright image with dark objects and full dynamic range, no dark clipping. Zero-black borders are the tiny left-hand "spikes" at the left edge of the top white band on the histogram.



VC500 capture, dim scene with no dark clipping and original zero-black borders.


VC500 capture, bright scene with strong highlight detail, plus dark objects with mild overflow below y=16 but dark detail not clipped in capture and can be recovered in YUV post-processing with contrast filters.


My capture from the Memphis Belle tape was an exercise in restoring noisy tape, but the full capture was made with an AIW 9600XT AGP card. Most of the time I had a diifficulty knowing which capture I was working with. If you think an ATI 600 is hard to find, try looking for a PAL version of the 7500 or 9600XT All In Wonders.


You'll have to make up your own mind in this matter. The ATI 600 can be difficult to find, while the VC500 is in current production with drivers for lossless capture using XP, Win7, and Win10. You need its drivers, but as with the ATI 600 you don't need the full software package, just the capture drivers. AN ATI600 appears now and then in the forum's marketplace section.


Attached Images
File Type: png 7500 PCI.png (771.0 KB, 61 downloads)
File Type: png VC500.png (760.4 KB, 60 downloads)

Last edited by sanlyn; 03-28-2019 at 06:33 PM.
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  #8  
03-29-2019, 03:01 AM
Mazufa Mazufa is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sanlyn View Post
We don't recommend capture devices that don't perform within desired parameters. The VC500 has been used and tested by advanced amateurs for several years. I think it's as good as the ATI and probably a little better because it doesn't clip blacks at y-16 and has visibly better shadow detail and dynamic range in many videos that require it.
There are several posts that used the vC500 but the only frame-by-frame comparison using the same video was done with an AIW 7500 (which is superior to the ATI 600 and VC500 alike). There there are 3 very demanding shots (very bright, very dark, high-contrast daylight shot) where the VC500 acquits itself quite well -- to the point where you would have difficulty deciding between which card you prefer. The avi's are lossless YUY2 captures using the huffYUV codec:

ATI 7500 lossless capture: http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/atta...500-aiw7500avi
VC500 lossless capture: http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/atta...-7500-vc500avi
If you don't have HuffYUV I suggest that you'd better get your hands on it (). The 32-bit version works quite well in 64-bit Windows. v2.1.1 https://www.videohelp.com/software/HuffYUV


Images from the two avi's show similarities but minor differences due to capture level precision and other factors, but the difficult high contrast scene below looks pretty good in both versions. The images are unfiltered direct frame caps from the original YUY2 lossless avi's:
7500 PCI

VC500

Sometimes clipped blacks can't be noticed (I have no trouble seeing it immediately), but when it occurs it can't be repaired after capture and is often painfully during processing and display:


ATI 600 capture: Arrows point to crushed detail in image and to unsafe areas on histogram. Dark details clipped and greyed-out, detail can't be recovered. Note that black borders in the image aren't zero-black black but are dark grey.



ATI 600 capture with low dynamic range in murky shadow area, no detail can be recovered for enhancement by brightening the image, which simply washes out to muddy grays. The numbers in the left-hand column clearly show that the minimum (darkest) value in the image is y=16.


No one has posted other frame-by-frame comparisons between the ATI600 and VC500 using the same video for both devices, but there are plenty of examples of VC500 caps showing that the VC500 doesn't clip at y=16 and that it does retain darker-than-y=16 detail for further recovery in post processing where needed. The images below are frame captures from a lossless capture from the Memphis Belle retail VHS:


VC500 capture: bright image with dark objects and full dynamic range, no dark clipping. Zero-black borders are the tiny left-hand "spikes" at the left edge of the top white band on the histogram.



VC500 capture, dim scene with no dark clipping and original zero-black borders.


VC500 capture, bright scene with strong highlight detail, plus dark objects with mild overflow below y=16 but dark detail not clipped in capture and can be recovered in YUV post-processing with contrast filters.


My capture from the Memphis Belle tape was an exercise in restoring noisy tape, but the full capture was made with an AIW 9600XT AGP card. Most of the time I had a diifficulty knowing which capture I was working with. If you think an ATI 600 is hard to find, try looking for a PAL version of the 7500 or 9600XT All In Wonders.


You'll have to make up your own mind in this matter. The ATI 600 can be difficult to find, while the VC500 is in current production with drivers for lossless capture using XP, Win7, and Win10. You need its drivers, but as with the ATI 600 you don't need the full software package, just the capture drivers. AN ATI600 appears now and then in the forum's marketplace section.
Here's a new Ati all-in-Wonder 7500: https://www.ebay.com/itm/ATI-All-In-...frcectupt=true

Here would be the ATI all-in-Wonder 9600 xt: https://www.amazon.com/ATI-Technolog.../dp/B0001FSCTK

I just don't know if these are PAL versions because it's not being told. Can you tell if these are also PAL supportive? I need a PAL because I'm in Finland.
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  #9  
03-29-2019, 04:43 AM
Mazufa Mazufa is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mazufa View Post
Here's a new Ati all-in-Wonder 7500: https://www.ebay.com/itm/ATI-All-In-...frcectupt=true

Here would be the ATI all-in-Wonder 9600 xt: https://www.amazon.com/ATI-Technolog.../dp/B0001FSCTK

I just don't know if these are PAL versions because it's not being told. Can you tell if these are also PAL supportive? I need a PAL because I'm in Finland.
Is this the same card as the ATI All-In-Wonder 9600XT? This would be in Germany and it is a PAL version: https://www.ebay.com/itm/223377361940

-- merged --

I have decided that I will take this if it only supports PAL image? Sanlyn got the best result she showed me. Support for this PAL picture? I have tried to search for information, but it can not be found clearly about anything:
https://www.amazon.com/ATI-Technolog...ustomerReviews
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  #10  
03-29-2019, 08:01 AM
sanlyn sanlyn is offline
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If the unit shown is being sold in the U.S. it has an NTSC analog tv tuner, but for lossless capture through its external connections it supports PAL and NTSC via composite or s-video input. However, you should verify through the seller that the unit it includes all of the connecting hardware and output/input cables. The 9600XT is useless without the accessory connections. The small photo on the sellers' page only shows the card, not the accessory cables.
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  #11  
03-29-2019, 08:07 AM
Mazufa Mazufa is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sanlyn View Post
If the unit shown is being sold in the U.S. it has an NTSC analog tv tuner, but for lossless capture through its external connections it supports PAL and NTSC via composite or s-video input. However, you should verify through the seller that the unit it includes all of the connecting hardware and output/input cables. The 9600XT is useless without the accessory connections. The small photo on the sellers' page only shows the card, not the accessory cables.
This won't come to me for TV use. My only intention is to digitize VHS cassettes. So, is it suitable for that purpose? I've seen cables are also sold separately with composite and S-video connections: https://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-ATI-Rad...MAAOSw8UZZ5tqX

Is Sanlyn the card that you have?
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  #12  
03-29-2019, 08:23 AM
ehbowen ehbowen is offline
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That cable won't fit the 9600XT. I purchased one (actually, two ) of those eBay special 9600 cards when I was just starting out and they're still gathering dust. The connection cables are unique to that model, they're very difficult to find separately, and the card is useless without them as the monitor outputs go through that connector and you can't use the PC without a monitor. However, if the seller confirms that everything in the photo for that listing (for the 9600) is included then I would buy it, because to me that photo in the 9600 listing shows a complete setup with both the video-out square connector and the video-in connector.

If that doesn't work for you I've built a system around the ATI AIW X1800, and I can confirm that it works properly both when capturing NTSC and PAL. But give that 9600 a try first. Heck, if you didn't already have dibs on it I'd order it myself at that price!
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  #13  
03-29-2019, 08:29 AM
sanlyn sanlyn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ehbowen View Post
That cable won't fit the 9600XT. I purchased one (actually, two ) of those eBay special 9600 cards when I was just starting out and they're still gathering dust. The connection cables are unique to that model, they're very difficult to find separately, and the card is useless without them as the monitor outputs go through that connector and you can't use the PC without a monitor. However, if the seller confirms that everything in the photo for that listing (for the 9600) is included then I would buy it, because to me that photo in the 9600 listing shows a complete setup with both the video-out square connector and the video-in connector.

If that doesn't work for you I've built a system around the ATI AIW X1800, and I can confirm that it works properly both when capturing NTSC and PAL. But give that 9600 a try first. Heck, if you didn't already have dibs on it I'd order it myself at that price!
Good info, and thanks for posting.

I should have also mentioned that the 9600XT requires a motherboard with an AGP card mount, and the software requires XP/SP2 or XP/SP3. It will not run in later versions of Windows.
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  #14  
03-29-2019, 08:29 AM
Mazufa Mazufa is offline
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I've watched the images google what the package includes. It looks like the cable connection is included! I get myself from that great digitalization card. Sanlyn? did i really understand that when i use this only for digitalization then this 9600XT card supports PAL image?
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  #15  
03-29-2019, 08:36 AM
ehbowen ehbowen is offline
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On ATI cards, the "PAL" or "NTSC" designation refers only to the over-the-air TV tuner included on the card...which is obsolete, since I don't know of any stations still broadcasting analog PAL or NTSC. But when you connect a composite or S-Video input source directly to the card and have the settings configured properly, it will recognize and capture either signal. I've tested mine with (several) NTSC recorders and a PAL VCR; no problem either way as long as I have the card settings adjusted properly.

However, a TBC is still recommended for capture to stabilize the image, and they're more selective than the ATI cards. I found that my NTSC-spec TBCs would NOT work with PAL. I did find a Kudos standards converter elsewhere on eBay which does seem to perform a TBC-ish function when I set it to both PAL input and output.
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  #16  
03-29-2019, 08:38 AM
Mazufa Mazufa is offline
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Now I'm angry with this .... This Ati All-In-Wonder Capture Card would have been perfect but it will not be delivered to Finland .... Well ... I always have to be disappointed. I will never find a good card if I can find it not delivered to Finland ......
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03-29-2019, 08:49 AM
ehbowen ehbowen is offline
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Okay, keep in mind that you also need to find the proper computer. The 9600 (and 7500, and many other classic ATI cards) require a PC with an AGP graphics slot motherboard, which is no longer made new by any supplier I can find. You can find them used, but try to make sure you have recourse if the motherboard is bad.

The X1800 card I'm using now works in a PCIe graphics slot computer, which is much easier to find these days...although it still requires Windows XP and will not run on Vista or later operating systems. If you want to build a system around that card, you will need to make sure that you have or can get the VIVO (Video-In, Video-Out) cable for capturing. The monitor outputs on the X1800 are standard DVI connectors right on the card, so the VIVO cable is the only one you need. There is a US supplier which carries an aftermarket cable which will work (and which is what I am using right now), but make sure that they will ship to Finland before you start. The name of the company is S-Video.com and this is the VIVO cable I'm using for my own X1800 right now. It works great. You'll also need a decent sound card to take the load of processing the audio off your PC's CPU, but good sound cards are easy to find.
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03-29-2019, 10:29 AM
Mazufa Mazufa is offline
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Well, no capture card is delivered to Finland ... I'm starting to be really disgusted because whenever I find a good hijacking card, it's not delivered to Finland .... I don't know what I would do. Will I give up the whole thing? Always reading we don't act in Finland .....

Now, digitalisation on my computer is the Asus P5Q-E motherboard. I'm not sure if it has an AGP bus.

But I'm back at the starting point because that Ati all-in-wonder capture card is not delivered to Finland. The industry is really really annoyed because whenever I find a GOOD Capture card then it is not delivered to Finland.

It's a big problem to find this capture card. Nobody will deliver to Finland. The customer is waiting and I have pressure for that.

I've been looking for now capture card for almost two weeks now .... Whenever you can find good then the answer is we do not deliver to Finland ....

My friend here in Finland would have an Ati all-in-Wonder 9800Pro capture card for me. Would it be good to digitize videos?

Another option I have is this capture card: https://www.ebay.com/itm/264248117459 Sanlyn suggested to me either the Ati all-in-Wonder 7500 or the 9600XT capture card. That Ati all-in-Wonder hardly supports the PAL image but I realized it wouldn't hurt the purpose of digitalization.

My friend would have Ati all-in-Wonder 9800 Pro but that was not what Sanlyn was talking about.


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File Type: jpg All-in-wonder 9800 pro.jpg (63.7 KB, 1 downloads)
File Type: jpg All-in-wonder 9800.jpg (99.0 KB, 1 downloads)
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  #19  
03-29-2019, 03:21 PM
sanlyn sanlyn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mazufa View Post
Another option I have is this capture card: https://www.ebay.com/itm/264248117459 Sanlyn suggested to me either the Ati all-in-Wonder 7500 or the 9600XT capture card. That Ati all-in-Wonder hardly supports the PAL image but I realized it wouldn't hurt the purpose of digitalization.

My friend would have Ati all-in-Wonder 9800 Pro but that was not what Sanlyn was talking about.
The All-In_Wonder AGP cards do support PAL and NTSC, it's their tv tuners that don't support both. You don't need their tv tuners for capture from tape players.

If what is shown is the full box set that contains all the cables and input dongles, you will be able to use it for viewing and capture, and the proper install disc would be included. You won't need the remote control device.

There is nothing wrong with the 9800 pro. It's just that the 7500 and the 9800XT AGP's were more popular.

Remember that to use these cards you need a motherboard with an AGP add-in slot (you can't use PCI or PCIe) and Windows XP/SP2 or XP/SP3.
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03-29-2019, 03:28 PM
Mazufa Mazufa is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sanlyn View Post
The All-In_Wonder AGP cards do support PAL and NTSC, it's their tv tuners that don't support both. You don't need their tv tuners for capture from tape players.

If what is shown is the full box set that contains all the cables and input dongles, you will be able to use it for viewing and capture, and the proper install disc would be included. You won't need the remote control device.

There is nothing wrong with the 9800 pro. It's just that the 7500 and the 9800XT AGP's were more popular.

Remember that to use these cards you need a motherboard with an AGP add-in slot (you can't use PCI or PCIe) and Windows XP/SP2 or XP/SP3.
Sanlyn. That Ati all-in-Wonder that I link to is completely new and is in an unopened package. It also comes with all the necessary S-video and composite connections.

I would rather buy a completely new Ati all-in-Wonder 7500 hijacking card than the old 9800 pro capture card.

Is that exactly the 7500 card you meant? I'll probably buy that new 7500 capture card from that link.

Did I understand that I can use Windows XP? The AGP bus is not a problem. I buy a good motherboard on the AGP bus and build a computer for it

So I buy this: https://www.ebay.com/itm/ATI-All-In-...oAAOSwD4RckpqI
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