How good is BigScoots for hosting?

[rdkcreative]

@Kpmedia - BigScoots never made any of the top 10 lists.?

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[kpmedia]

Quote:

Originally Posted by rdkcreative

@Kpmedia - BigScoots never made any of the top 10 lists.?

I'll address the rest of that post in a day or two, but wanted to respond to this first...

The reason BigScoots hasn't made the cut thus far is based on several factors:

1. Periods of absence by the owner/tech in the past. (Being a small company is NOT always a good thing!)
2. Suspicious bouts of glowing feedback left on forums.
3. If you check WHT right now (see attached image), their account is (again) disabled.
4. Their VPS only use OpenVZ, and are thus very overpriced.

When it comes to quality hosting, I'm not easily pleased. It needs to truly be a good host, and to date I've just not seen that from them. I'd not use them for anything important at this time.

[Impulse]

Oh that makes me nervous.

Though i thought disabled on WHT doesn't necessarily mean banned though.

[kpmedia]

Banned, temporarily suspended, disabled, etc -- honestly, there's no difference. The outcome is the same. The company or "company" can no longer participate there. Something that they've done is not on the level, and they're now having to deal with those consequences.

It should make you nervous!

That's not good. And like a said, it's been an ongoing off/on issue for at least a year now.

It could be a good host in time. Right now, it's on the bubble, and not suggested.

From what I see, their biggest issue appears to be unsustainable growth. At some point, unless they hire more staff, the number of clients they have will overload their support desk, and support will suffer heavily. I've seen this so many times in the past, at both large and small hosts.

JaguarPC, EZPZ, Crocweb, SolarVPS and Downtown Host (and DH's Ninjalion) all have this issue, and is why they're currently NOT suggested. One should-be-small issue is always an overblown major issue as a result. Many routine support tickets have fallen through the cracks, answered with delays or not at all. You hear rumblings about these companies from clients, every month, for at least 6 months now.

If you asked any of these hosts about their issues, they'd surely whitewash it, as well as downplay it as a small % of their operation. But here's the thing -- others hosts have less of a "small %" of errors. Those are the hosts we recommend here. Because we need to use good hosts too! And those are our choices. Those are responsive hosts (everything from ownership to management to ground-level techs), and give near-zero issues.

[Impulse]

Ah I see what you mean.

The Support really is good with Big Scoots(which is something the OP can likely echo as well with the fact they are on Reseller and I use their VPS) and I generally do recommend the company to people. The pricing to me is a little higher than normal compared to say some of the larger hosts(for example perhaps Wiredtree and Knownhost) but I also rationalize that paying a little more may not be that big a deal if the support is great and warrants said extra few dollars. Aside from that big nearly 24 hour outage back in either Jan or February 2014, in the off and on year that I've used Big Scoots, I can say that even the smallest issue or more medium issues generally are resolved rather fast and even though that 24 hour outage thing annoyed me(It could've been handled better, they did acknowledge this themselves on WHT) that was probably the one time they completely dropped the ball.

With that said, it does make me slightly nervous of the suspension/banned thing as a Host who gets banned at WHT has to have likely done something to get banned. But at the same time WHT can be a bit heavyhanded with their infractions(i've been on the receiving end of them myself) when it comes to even smallest of issues so who knows what it could've been.

[BigScoots]

Hi guys,

I'd like to go ahead and start out by addressing kpmedia's points.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kpmedia

1. Periods of absence by the owner/tech in the past. (Being a small company is NOT always a good thing!)
2. Suspicious bouts of glowing feedback left on forums.
3. If you check WHT right now (see attached image), their account is (again) disabled.
4. Their VPS only use OpenVZ, and are thus very overpriced.

1. Can we please unpack this a little bit? Our current client list and I'd certainly say the majority of their reasoning for staying with us (given I am aware we are slightly more expensive) is certainly not because we have periods of absence in our support. We man the desk 24/7 and as the two clients in this thread have already attested to, our response times are spot on. We've been doing this for 4 years now, and I like to think we're pretty darn good at it. I will address the scalable point here as well since its applicable, we've positioned ourselves well with resources in tow that when necessary we can call on at a moments notice. We have in the past, it has been seamless, and there is no reason to think that bringing more assistance on in the way of support when necessary will be anything but seamless. The growing pains most hosts experience is derived from their pricing as it typically does not allow for scalable growth, as you have already pointed out we are slightly more expensive and thus adding on additional support and hardware (which we do almost daily at this point) to maintain the same quality we deliver to our current client base is not to much of a leap. We don't take this business lightly, it 100% our livelihood (and our family's livelihood) and each and every client, even if its a $2/month shared plan is treated like gold (which I think is the part most people are doubting). Perhaps unsustainable for some, for us, its just a matter of passion towards what we do, proper planning, executing and continuing to do what we have been since day one.

2. This point is speculative based on trends seen in the past with other hosts. While I've already addressed it many times over at WHT, to make it clear once more, the "bouts" (which I am assuming as many of the WHT account names do not mirror account names with us) were from our name getting caught up in a "switch from hostgator" google search. Many new and inexperienced users looked for alternatives when hostgator was bought out and these same new and inexperienced users decided to post on the same forum they found our reviews on. I'd be happy to take a call, hold a meeting, sit down in person with whom ever would like to (already offered this) so I can show our backend, the real response times, the real indepth and over the top support that drives people to review us (skype, screenshare, etc.). The reality of it was that hundreds of clients moved to us from hostgator and a handful of them posted a review. I have nothing else to say here unfortunately, its just that black and white I'm afraid.

I get being doubted, I'm not suggesting anyone should blindly believe anything they read on the web, but if no one is prepared to look into it further (of which I am willing to provide a very clear view of), I'm not sure how this constant bombardment based solely on suspicion is the correct way of doing business. We operate a different business model here, we spend a significant amount of additional time per client than quite likely any one else (and charge slightly more because of it), we aren't doing anything the least bit skiddish, its just plain a lot of hard work and small reward in the way of a review. Justin and I both work ~20 hours a day easy, 7 days a week, been on this schedule for years and have no problem maintaining it. With the personal attention that type of schedule delivers clients, I don't think its overly surprising we get more reviews than folks who do this part time who work on a quantity based model for lower prices and more clients, etc. I should also say we enjoy doing what we're doing, and I think that rubs off on our clients. You often see reviews with clients asking for more friendly support in other companies reviews, so I find with our general down to earth nature, joking around with clients and getting to know them goes a really long way and while not directly asking them to post reviews for us, by turning our business relationships into personal relationships I think really drives a lot of people to review for us.

3. Well this is an easy one, I have no idea why the "last activity" was in March, but that account has been disabled (and remained disabled) for a good 3+ years at this point. Feel free to check my most recent post (just having a bit of fun with a client) http://www.webhostingtalk.com/showthread.php?p=9078090 (also has more reviews from longer term members in that thread as well). You'll see we are alive and kicking. To address the reason for that particular account being disabled, when we started out Justin created that account for him and I both as we wanted a single account to represent the company. They don't allow sharing accounts thus it was disabled. Justin also had a previous account (from roughly 10 years ago if I recall correctly) and they don't allow duplicate accounts. Our ignorance of the WHT forum rules at that stage in our business is the reason for the account being disable, nothing else to that I'm afraid.

4. We've found OpenVZ to have a lower overhead, in many cases performs better (albeit slightly) and despite the typical trend of hosts reselling their services into the ground on OpenVZ platforms, we on average utilize only 60% of our systems which makes that an impossible point.

Most of the above is hard to portray until you give us a shot, I'm not posting this as a decree but rather our point of view on points that we deal directly with daily, and have been for years. This is an open forum so I encourage everyone to do their research and believe what they would like to, but if anyone would like to chat, we'll always be here to try and help out. We're in this for the long haul guys, looking forward to seeing everyone in the years to come

All the best to everyone!

[kpmedia]

1. If the bump was caused by Hostgator's implosion, and you were able to ride it out, then concerns over sustainable growth are perhaps moot. And it may account for the frequent week-at-a-time MIA windows that have been observed for several months. Yes, clients should always come first ... but remember to keep up outwards appearances. In the hosting industry, silence is never a good thing; too many hosts (or "hosts") disappear and "deadpool".

2. Hostgator? Hmmm... The "lots of glowing feedback" situation (suspicious for a small host!) had been discussed many times (both public and private), and I'd never seen that given as a reason. I can accept that, if it remains a one-time oddity, or at least coincides with another large host imploding. Congrats on the search term bring you more former HG customers!

3. Hmmm.... you're right. The problem is that this old account resurfaces on older posts, and comes up in WHT searches for various topics (including searching for "bigscoots"). It doesn't help that it shows to have recent activity, so it looks as if your company has been disabled/suspended/banned again. Interesting. You know, WHT is based on vBulletin, and vB has a feature to merge users. So this confusing situation can be entirely avoided. I'm not the only one who has made this mistake.

4. The problem with OpenVZ is the RAM use in the VM, not the other performance issues for the node. As an end-user, I could care less about the node's performance, and only care about the VM's performance. UBC was horrible for RAM use. And while vswap is better for RAM, it's still not true isolation like many application now need. OpenVZ was the VM style of the last decade (2000s), and is just outdated now in the 2010s -- the era of Xen, KVM, VMware, Hyper-V, etc.

Like I said, I have nothing against Big Scoots. It was "on the bubble", meaning it could be one we eventually recommend, pending in-depth usage reviews. And after this thread, it's actually less "on the bubble", so it was good we had this conversation here in public.

Thanks.

[BigScoots]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kpmedia

1. If the bump was caused by Hostgator's implosion, and you were able to ride it out, then concerns over sustainable growth are perhaps moot. And it may account for the frequent week-at-a-time MIA windows that have been observed for several months. Yes, clients should always come first ... but remember to keep up outwards appearances. In the hosting industry, silence is never a good thing; too many hosts (or "hosts") disappear and "deadpool".

2. Hostgator? Hmmm... The "lots of glowing feedback" situation (suspicious for a small host!) had been discussed many times (both public and private), and I'd never seen that given as a reason. I can accept that, if it remains a one-time oddity, or at least coincides with another large host imploding. Congrats on the search term bring you more former HG customers!

3. Hmmm.... you're right. The problem is that this old account resurfaces on older posts, and comes up in WHT searches for various topics (including searching for "bigscoots"). It doesn't help that it shows to have recent activity, so it looks as if your company has been disabled/suspended/banned again. Interesting. You know, WHT is based on vBulletin, and vB has a feature to merge users. So this confusing situation can be entirely avoided. I'm not the only one who has made this mistake.

4. The problem with OpenVZ is the RAM use in the VM, not the other performance issues for the node. As an end-user, I could care less about the node's performance, and only care about the VM's performance. UBC was horrible for RAM use. And while vswap is better for RAM, it's still not true isolation like many application now need. OpenVZ was the VM style of the last decade (2000s), and is just outdated now in the 2010s -- the era of Xen, KVM, VMware, Hyper-V, etc.

Like I said, I have nothing against Big Scoots. It was "on the bubble", meaning it could be one we eventually recommend, pending in-depth usage reviews. And after this thread, it's actually less "on the bubble", so it was good we had this conversation here in public.

Thanks.

1. I'm sorry but I'm still not quite sure when these week-at-a-time MIA's occurred. We've never been "missing." our twitter, facebook, emails and support desk have been functioning around the clock since we started up. Perhaps its the fact that I am sometimes weary to comply with WHT to a certain extent, I don't bump posts about us or reply unnecessarily so perhaps that was construed as being MIA, but it wasn't intentional and we were very much here. At any note, I will make a point of this criticism and ensure to respond to every post about us as we always used to in the future (though then we might get accused of responding to quickly again).

2. I had given this reason several times (mind you the reason is assumed as I didn't personally have any interaction with them), but stopped responding as the accusers wouldn't let up, despite what I said or after many of our clients jumped in and responded to the thread calling them out for accusing us without grounds and validating our commitment to service.

3. Yes, it is irritating, unfortunately we have several tickets open with WHT, the tickets have been going on almost 3 years without a response. I don't see that changing any time soon.

4. I will agree to disagree, we've migrated users to our systems from basically every company out there at one point in time and having our hands in those various environments allowed us to see what our competitors are up to. Speaking honestly, our systems perform very well in comparison and I'll leave it at that. If anyone is curious, we have a money back policy, feel free to try us out.

Nor do we have anything against you or anyone else rooting against us, and I appreciate the candid response. While we are caught in the cross hairs at this specific moment, other companies have been in the hot seat and our industry is generally better because of it. If I had any criticism I'd just say that I would prefer a little more innocent until proven guilty, we've had our stake in the sand now for several years, we aren't the new guy on the block any more and we've proven our capability as a premium provider many times over. If we weren't all that we said we are, I think we would have heard some pretty candid reviews given the length of time we would have been operating a charade at this point. Many people along with medium and large businesses trust us with their mission critical websites and applications at this stage of our business and they certainly do not have time for games.

I'm hoping in time our colleagues will see we are here to stay and let up just a bit

[kpmedia]

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigScoots

other companies have been in the hot seat and our industry is generally better because of it. If I had any criticism I'd just say that I would prefer a little more innocent until proven guilty

It's just the nature of the industry right now. The hosting industry is still in its infancy.

As a 20+ year online veteran (since the early 90s), having used commercial hosting for most of that time (since the late 90s), I've just seen too many horror stories -- and had too many terrible experiences myself. For customers, it's far safer to shoot first, and ask questions later. At the first sign of trouble, it's often best to run AND warn others of the problems.

If it were any other industry, sure, let's take our time and see what can be done about it. But with hosting, sadly, that kind of waiting can be dangerous.

I can walk into a grocery store, and feel safe with my purchases. Rarely is anything harmful, because the FDA protects us. Differences in brands is negligible. Even a newer industry like cell phones or tablet PCs is like this, because those are based on much early industry models (landline phone and PCs, respectivlely).

But hosting is odd. In no other industry can a complete know-nothing setup a "business" and pretend to be a professional service/company. So until that changes, customers have to protect themselves.

Because of this fact, that means many good companies (like yourself) may get caught up by these knee-jerk reactions.

It just means that image, PR (public relations), marketing and advertising are that much more important for hosts. And if you let up for a minute, customers will wonder what's wrong. Companies like EIG only do as well as they do because of their quality communication -- regardless of the fact that their services are completely $hit.

It is what it is.