Any advice on which class to take first? Web design or Flash CS5?

[Sossity]

Am a new student to graphic design concepts, have been taking online classes for a major in graphic design, have taken Adobe Photoshop CS5 1 & Adobe In Design CS5 1 so far.

I am currently enrolled in 2 different online classes; one is web design 1 fundamentals, & the other is flash 1 animation & interactivity.

I will probably be taking just one of these along with a general education requirement of pre-algebra. I have been doing 2 classes per semester or part time. so one of these classes will be dropped from my schedule.

which would I best taking first? the web design before the flash class? or does it matter? I have never worked with either before.

My other concern is if the class with flash is somewhat complicated, or that it will require me to have the latest version of photoshop. Right now my college is using CS5, & if flash is challenging, I don't want the additional potential difficulty of being a version behind if my college moves on to CS6 & I still have CS5. I fear this may happen if I wait for another semester to take flash & take the web design fundamentals first for this coming fall 2011 semester and put off flash until fall 2012 semester. I got a good deal as a student for Adobe CS5 design suite premium, but I cannot afford to have to keep updating or rebuying this program each time my school moves on to newer versions.

So does anybody think it will be crucial for me to have the latest version for flash? will I have a hard time or will I be ok if I take the class in another semester & my school has moved on to CS6?

I will be taking these classes on my 2010 macbook pro laptop with 4gb of ram, i7 running snowleopard.

[kpmedia]

I have a question about "web design 1 fundamentals". What are they teaching you? Are you wasting your time learning HTML and CSS, or are you being taught the non-coding "big picture" to having/running/owning/creating sites? Because the coding is really the middle of the process. Planning takes a long time, coding can take a while, and then upkeep/use is just as important. Honestly, it's 33-33-33. Too many people rank it 10-80-10, leaving you with a poorly planned site that fails to do what's really needed. Yes, it's coded, but who cares? Way too many classes teach the 10-80-10 method (80% on coding), releasing graduates that don't know their rear from their elbow, when it comes to running sites. You'll instead be taught by the school of hard knocks later on!

Knowing the coding is good, yes. But if that's all you're being taught, you may have to self-supplement. I've advised curriculum planners several times in the past decade, to move to a 33-33-33 method. This isn't a field only for "computer people" or for "marketing people" -- you need both, or you fail (or just do lousy at it).

Re-reading your post as I reply, it seems like you're only enrolled, and not yet taking the class, so you may not yet know what's in store for you! I guess you'll find out soon enough.

I would take Flash after an introduction to web design. I think it's better to know how something should be used, before you're taught to make it. It's sort of like teaching a class on transmission repair, before you really understand how a transmission interacts with the entire vehicle. Yes, you can do it backwards, but it would make more sense (and possibility be easier) done with the overview coming first, and the specialty coming next.

CS5 should be good for years to come. Professionals don't upgrade at every version unless there is a serious need (rare), especially during a bad economy. If the school moves to CS6, good for them. When you're on your own laptop, you'll have CS5. I moved directly from v6 to CS3 to CS5. I used other versions, but I've only owned three versions in the past decade. It's highly unlikely I'll move to CS6, though I may use it (friends, family, workplaces, etc). In this economy, and with higher ed being bilked by state governments across the nation, I'd be surprised if they had funding to buy new software just because it's new. Odds of them moving to CS6 right away seems low.

Reading your post again, it seems you're going to an online school (or taking online classes from a local school). Those online classes take a long time to plan, create, and get approved. According to Adobe, CS6 will come out "sometime" in 2012. In my experience, it will be late 2012, not early 2012. So a spring class is almost certainly going to be CS5. A summer class, also likely CS5. Even a fall or winter class may still be CS5. Look for CS6 in 2013 classes.

A lot of what you learned about InDesign (print layout) will be useful for web design concepts.
And then Photoshop before Flash helped.

When it came to InDesign, were you taught general information about layout, print work, etc? Or was it just monkey-see, monkey-do type click-and-do? That's where they show you a project, you follow along, you copy it, and you learn the software in the process. Teaching concepts is educational and those last a lifetime, while teaching software is of limited value long-term.

[Sossity]

I went to my school's website & copied the description of the class;

MAT 125 Web Design 1: Fundamentals
Students learn to build Web pages from the ground up, using HTML, XHTML and CSS, including image and optimizing techniques. They implement style sheets and Javascript, upload the final website to a Web server, and maintain it using FTP.

There is also MAT165 web design 2, here is the description;
This course introduces students to techniques for designing and producing websites using industry-standard web design and development tools, including Dreamweaver, Photoshop, and Flash.

there is also MAT255 Dynamic web development;
This course develops skills for building database driven, dynamically generated web applications using current database technologies, such as PHP and MySQL. Students integrate dynamic content into their web-page designs using Dreamweaver’s database functionality.

so should I take this the web design 1 before flash 1?
the other web classes, MAT165 web design 2 & MAT255 dynamic web development are not part of my graphic design degree requirements, just MAT125 web design 1.

will this class web design 1 be any good?

right now I am focusing on requirements.

[Sossity]

Since my last post about this, I am taking the web design fundamentals 1. As per advice before taking Adobe flash 1.

It does look like that is what I will be doing, is coding & CSS, we are learning HTMXL & HTML5. It seems there has been a transition in tech for this, with XTMHL being slightly older & HTML5 being the newer more modern version. WE students have been given a choice to work in either, but have been advised to work with HTML5.

There will be a couple of projects in the semester as well.

When I was told I will have to self supplement, are there any specific resources that I can look up to fill in what I will probably be missing? like upkeep & maintenance of a website or the 33-33-33 method? I have mixed feelings now, I thought I would be learning something useful to move myself & my art ahead, what I am doing now does seem a bit tedious. I also have web domain names I bought & still have for when I can put together my own website.

[admin]

You're in a somewhat stupid situation, as caused by the school.

The preferred order of teaching should be more like this.
Step 1: What sites are good for, how to plan content for a site, goals of sites, how to market sites, etc.
Step 2: How to either build or oversee the building of sites; introductory basics of HTML, CSS, rich media, blogs, etc.
Step 3: Advanced concepts of building sites; PHP, Flash, streaming video, Ajax, JS, forums, etc

Where you are, they skip planning and focus on tech. It's an IT basis, instead of a well-rounded education on web development.

To a degree, yes, you're mostly wasting time, because you're learning things without any conceptual idea as to its use. But supplemental learning can fix that. You can give yourself the basis, by reading proper books/articles on the subject.

It's very similar to methods used when I was in grade school -- methods LONG AGO abandoned because of how worthless they were at actually teaching something. In math class, for example, we had to recite (rote learning) "2 times 2 is 4, 2 times 3 is 6, ..." etc etc. We had no idea what it meant, we just memorized crap because we had to. There was no meaning or basis put into it. I can still recite multiple tables into the 12's to this day, but it doesn't necessarily help me with math in any constructive way. My parents had to help me understand what was actually going on, why the information mattered.

You'll learn some HTML, CSS, etc, but you won't really know what it all means, how to use it, how to apply the knowledge. For that, you'll want to supplement. Authors at this site plan to write quite a few articles here, so there's one way to learn other the course of the next 6 months. Beyond that, I'll see about putting together a list of books for you.

I have one question: What do you need, and also what do you want, to accomplish with web sites?

Websites come down to 3 basic areas:
1. Content.
2. Security.
3. Resources / hosting.

Learning HTML is small subset of #1 (content).

Honestly, HTML, XHTML, HTML5 -- it's all the same thing. Your teacher must be a dork if he wants to treat them as if they're each separate technologies. "HTML" is almost always a reference to version 4 (since 1997) of the HTML specs, and "HTML5" is version 5 of the HTML specs. It's HTML with some new updates, additions, changes, etc. XHTML is a merger and inclusion of XML into HTML, but it's largely still the same in many ways. XML is really more geared towards app development, while HTML ("HTML5") is for websites. XHTML is often nothing more than a silly spec used by some designers that want to try and impress others. "My designs are XHTML compliant!" (So what?) Originally, it was used for putting a web GUI onto an app.

XHTML and HTML5 will co-exist because they're similar HTML specs, both evolved from earlier versions of HTML, for different purposes. It's really a fork. The benefit of HTML5 is tighter integration of media assets, like video. There's a <VIDEO> tag now, meaning you don't have to write JS to get a video player on-page. iPad only uses HTML5, for example, not Flash based players (due to the Apple vs Adobe wars).

To stay current, $45/year for this magazine is good: https://www.websitemagazine.com/scri...ibe_level.aspx
That's one good resource to begin with. It's not for beginners necessarily, but has many intro-level and intermediate level articles on various topics each month. It's one of many things I subscribe to, and read on a regular basis.

[Sossity]

I would want my website to promote me & my art, at least get it out to the public, as I am not in a traditional gallery. I would like to be able to sell my art or anything else I have as well.

I would want my site to be simple, complimentary to my art, & easy/affordable to maintain.

[kpmedia]

What's somewhat ironic here is that:

1. Website owners do best when they understand the HTML/etc needed to build a good site. Regardless of it they pay somebody to make it for them, or if they do it themselves.
2. But at the same time, you can use pre-existing tools (i.e., a CMS with template themes) to help build that site, so no need to learn everything about design/development. I have a feeling this class will pretend Notepad and Adobe Dreamweaver are the only tools out there, and make you do everything the hard way.
3. Also understanding that making websites isn't just about HTML and design -- there's other considerations to be made with content, including tweaks that benefit SEO and social interaction, hosting (i.e., "unlimited" hosting plans vs quality hosting plans), and related issues.
4. Being able to focus -- that is, to NOT not lose focus of what really matters: the art, not the site that shows the art.

I admit getting caught up in this, too, sometimes. I dig heavily into networking and server/hosting tech, though the ultimate goal is my writing, as well as the viability of the video and website business. Even this very site is an offshoot of a business, and not the business itself. But it's easy to get sidetracked, swallowed into the computer and the web.

So do this:

1. Learn the HTML, PHP, Flash and what-have-you. Remember it's the ends to a mean, not the means itself.
2. Work on your art. If making a site robs you of time needed for making art, you're in trouble.
3. Fight the instinct to build your own site from scratch. Instead, use available tools, and then let your knowledge of HTML/etc make the process easier. So you're not really learning how to "make sites" as much as your learning how to "make making sites easier". Do you follow?
4. Starting with a modified template is fine, and using an existing CMS (WordPress with a gallery theme, for example). Once you get some traction, then further develop it, either by advanced editing/modification of the template, or by starting over completely from scratch with your own custom theme/template.

You instructor seems to be an IT person, divorced from the world of art and communication. Never forget that. Your class, and likely your teacher, are tunnel-visioned. Understand them, learn from them, but don't turn into them. Use what they teach you in ways that benefit what you need to be doing, don't necessarily imitate them long-term. They're not artists. Make sense?

Most costs are related to hosting. Just pick a good one. See this: http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/web-...-best-web.html
You could easily get by on a basic plan with Stablehost.

....

The alternate to all of this is to pay a professional for help. Of course, I imagine that's not a viable solution for a student. You can DIY to get started. But long-term, after you've established yourself, it would be wise to seek professional services for making a higher end site. This assumes the art career works, and for your sake, I very much hope it does -- and I wish you much luck and success at it.

....

You might even find that pre-existing communities when you start out, such as the DeviantArt.com community, may help you more long-term than building your own early site. Start at DA, and then move more into your own site when you've established yourself. There's quite a few options to follow. Much of it depends on your needs, of course.

As always, we'll be here to give advice to you.