KVCD templates - Best of the best?
 

Kwag,
Correct me if I'm wrong, KVCD-Plus and KVCDx3 use the same Q. Matrix, GOP are also the same, the only difference is the resolution. So, what makes KVCDx3 better than KVCD-Plus (Best of the best)? Do KVCD-Plus (704x480) and KVCDx3 have the same qaulity?

Re: Best of the best.
 

KVCD 704x480 PLUS is higher in resolution, but it's not so good for very high action scenes, because there's not enough bit rate to make blockless scenes on very fast motion. If you compare both on a regular TV, there's no visual difference. Only on a HDTV you can see the 704x480 slighlty sharper. But then the file size is also much larger on the 704x480. I prefer the KVCDx3, because it's the best balance between resolution and bit rate for a greater visual experience.

-kwag

Kwag,
Having mentioned the high bitrate in KVCDx3, the latest KVCD-Plus (704x480) template also has the same Max. bitrate as KVCDx3. Does it mean that they both perform well in high action sences? Also, I have tried to set the "Blocks--TV overscan" to 2 when using KVCD-Plus (704x480), the output looks good in TV, both sides are filled up. The file size is much smaller than before (without Blocks--TV overscan=2).

I have a Sony 29" flat-trinitron (only 2 years old), I don't know if it is a HDTV (or sort of)? but I see blocks in dark scene, especially those scenes with a complete black background (I tried both KVCDx3 and KVCD-plus 704x480).

Hi syk2c11,
Do you see blocks on the x3 sample on your TV?
Also, the MAX bit rate in the x3 is higher, It's set to 2,500Kbps. In the x2, it's 2,300Kbps.

-kwag

Kwag,
The KVCDx3 sample was made with bright scene, it was very good. I used the KVCDx3 template without a change, I see blocks in dark scene.

Do you remember that you amended the KVCD-plus (704x480) by changing the max bitrate from 2300 to 2500 and changing the CQ from 15 to 12? This is the one I am talking about.

Hi syk2c11,
Something is wrong 8O
I haven't seen any blocks on the x3 movies I've done. Specially "The Matrix", which is a pretty dark movie. And that's on my HDTV. Not even in the computer monitor. Are you processing from a .d2v file? If you are, check that you are setting TV scale and not PC scale in DVD2AVI. Then in TMPEG, you "uncheck" the "Output data as basic Y...." etc.

-kwag

Got it. I will give it a shot and let you know the result. Many thanks, Kwag.

Hi Kwag (and everyone),
I have double checked it and found that my settings in DVD2AVI and Tmpeg are exactly the same as you suggested. My source is VOB ripped from DVD, I processed VOBs by DVD2AVI (I did select "TV scale"). In Tmpeg, I did uncheck "Output data as basic Y....".

In fact, when Tmpeg is encoding, I can see blocks (in dark area) on that tiny window (from TV monitor, while it was encoding). What else can I try?

I personally prefer KVCD-plus (704x480), although it has blocks in dark area too (may be it is only my problem). This template also enables me to use the "time-search" function while KVCDx3 cannot be time searched.

You got me on this one syk2c11 8O . I've never seen blocks on TMPEG's monitor window. Maybe you have a CODEC problem. Do you process the .d2v directly, or with an .avs script?
If you use AviSynth, try installing the latest version 2.05. You may also check your MPEG2DEC.dll version. Try to get the latest.

-kwag

Thanks Kwag, I will keep tracking it down. If I find the "trouble maker", I will post it for everyone then.

By the way, here is the flow: Smartripper-->DVD2AVI-->FitCD-->Vdub-->Tmpeg.

OK, I removed the old version of avisynth.dll from the folder of system32, i re-intalled a new version of avisynth 2.05, I have also re-installed the newest version of FitCD. The only thing that I didn't change was DVD2AVI, I am still using 1.76. I still see blocks in Tmpeg's monitor window (only in black area)!! :evil:

I select "IEEE 1180...", TV scale, "YUY..." in DVD2AVI, is it the correct setting? If so, what to try next? By the way, I placed avisynth.dll in BOTH folders of "system" and "system 32", is that a problem? Thanks in advance for anyone who can help (or try to help).

Hi syk2c11,

It's not a good practice to have the .dll in two folders. Remove the one under \system.
My settings on DVD2AVI under IDCT 32 bit MMX, TV scale and YUY.
I am also using version 1.76.
Again, what happens if you open the .d2v directly with TMPEG instead of the .avs? Do you still see the blocks? If you don't, the problem is either MPEG2DEC.dll or AviSynth.
Try that!,

-kwag

Thanks Kwag! I will try it. I believe you suggested to IEEE-1180... somewhere in the forum before. What is the diffference between IDCT 32 bit MMX and IEEE-1180? Thanks anyway.

I read in the documentation, or on DVD2AVI's site but I don't remember now, where the author explains the differences. Mathematically, IEEE-1180 is the highest presicion. Visually, there's no difference if you use either. So use 32 bit MMX, which is the fastest mode. That's his suggestion.

-kwag

Hi everyone,
I have tried to load the d2v file directly into Tmpeg, NO BLOCKS! (in Tmpeg's monitor window) But after using FitCD and frameserving through Virtual Dub, I see blocks in Tmpeg's monitor window (of course, the final output also has blocks in black area when viewing in TV). I have checked the screenshot of FitCD provided by Kwag, I found one difference between my own setting and Kwag's one, that is the slider right above "interlaced resizing" (at the very bottom of the screen), mine is set to "position centre", but Kwag's is set to "position marcoblock aligned". What this little setting does?

I have re-installed the newest version of FitCD and Avisynth, and I have to use VDub to add subtitle. Any suggestions, please! Also, in Virtual Dub, there is a setting called "Compression" under the Video tap, should we select "uncompressed RGB"?

Hi syk2c11,

Did you try another version of MPEG2DEC.dll :?:

-kwag

Hi Kwag,
What is the lasest version? I downloaded it from doom9.org

Mine is dated 4/4/2002, and file size is 184KB.

-kwag

Where can I get it? Mine is dated 16-Aug-2001, 184k.

Where can I get it? Mine is dated 16-Aug-2001, 184k.

Go here: http://dvx.reloadworld.de
And download the dvx program.
It's a package for DivX, but it's in there, together with a lot of usefull stuff.

-kwag

Kwag,
I have downloaded DVX 2.3 and DVX 2.31 update, they both only contained the old version of Mpeg2dec.dll (dated 16-Aug-2001), I extracted both programs and looked all over the folder, no mpeg2dec dated 4-Apr-2002 was found. Would you please e-mail to me at syk2c11@sinaman.com with attachment. Thanks a million!

syk2c11,

I have the exact same problem (dancing dark-green blocks on black areas, visible on both monitor and TV) woth all kvcd templates.

I thought it was the "price to pay" in order to fit a movie on one single CD!! Not so high price, because on most movies, it is not so bothering (actually most "normal" viewers don't spot these blocks; by "normal" I mean people that did not sharpen their eyes with hours of MPEG encoding :wink: )

For dark movies (eg. escape from NY) I usually check "Output data as basic Y...." to get rid of them, at the cost of a darker imager, and a larger file size.

My chain is DVD2AVI (1.76)->FitCD->AviSynth->TMPGEnc.

Reading your post, I understand the problem comes from either Avisynth or MPEG2DEC.

Kwag are you using Avisynth 2.05 too?

For Kwag and everyone who has the same problem, I just found that it "MAY" be the source problem (DVD), I found that those DVDs available in Hong Kong are so BAD in terms of quality, I have re-encoded a clip from Black Hawk Down which is an expensive DVD in Hong Kong (although it is a region 3 DVD), it has no blocks at all at all scenes (no matter in Tmpeg's monitor window or TV. Most region 1 DVDs are good, but 90% of DVDs available for rent in Blockbuster (Hong Kong) are region 3. Damn it!