KVCD/KSVCD: A standard for encode-mux-author ?
After successfully making a few VCD/SVCD's with "K" standards, I'm wondering if there is some consensus on some things ....
In the world of "ordinary" VCDs and SVCDs, those two formats, obviously , have specific standards. Also obvious is that KVCD deviates from those standards. But I'm confused because KVCD seems to blur the distinction between the two original standards. Let me explain further. I assumed when starting out that if I was using MPEG2 video, I should mux my audio and video as an "SVCD" (I use bbMPEG) and also author as a noncompliant SVCD. Likewise, for MPEG1 video, I assumed I should mux as VCD and then author (or burn, whatever) the same way. Then DialHot told me in this forum that he always uses MPEG1 video and burns as SVCD. Well, when it came muxing time I was confused about whether to mux as VCD or SVCD, nevermind the burning phase! I started out muxing my MPEG1 as SVCD and burning the same way. Those disks did in fact work. Later on, however, I received some errors muxing MPEG1 as SVCD with bbMPEG (the old "can't find I-frame" error). After burning the disc with the resulting .mpg file, my looks-just-fine .m1v video looked awful on TV. Well, I read a bit more in the bbMPEG forum and of course the first sticky there points out optimal muxing settings for bbMPG. Looks like folks actually mux their video as VCD, too. So I went to both muxing and burning my MPEG1 as "VCD." This yielded some better results. Interestingly, in that process, I did not receive any errors ... not even the usual compliancy warning from VCDEasy. I know I tend to blather on, but I'm a person who likes to nail down specific technical details and it's really bugging me that there doesn't seem to be one "best way" to do this sort of thing. In fact, if you consider that you can a) use MPEG1 or MPEG2 video, b) mux either of them as VCD or SVCD, and then ... c) burn any of the above four combination as VCD or SVCD - ... well you've got 8 different definitions right there. And none of that even takes into account such things as aspect ratio, bitrates, etc. that the "K" standard modifies. I guess what I'm wondering here is whether there is more precise definition of KVCD other than just "whatever you can make work in your player using the the K quant matrix and GOP structure." Having said all that, I'd just like to hear from others simply how they choose to mux and encode both their MPEG1 and MPEG2 video. And do you do it the same way most every time, or do you vary from job to job? (Also, if you mux with TMPGEnc, I'd really like to know what setting you use. I've read a lot of posts here about muxing with TMPGEnc, but there are several different options for muxing in TMPGEnc and I'd like to know what people use [i.e. you can also choose to mux as VCD or SVCD in that program as well]). Thanks, -abs |
Re: K(S)VCD: A standard for encode-mux-author ??
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Whatever is done after that is just implementation that people CHOOSE to have of the KVCD concept. But there are other application than doing DVD backup. Karl will speak about that better than me. But this definition of KVCD isn't more "fuzzy" than XSVCD for instance. So that is not really a "new" thing to have so much stuff that can be named "KVCD". |
1 - This definition is in KVCD.net main page.
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2 - KVCD is not a standard itself. 3 - You have KVCD mpeg1, and KVCD mpeg2 and KDVD. 4 - Burn techniques are not related to any standard. There is a lot of tricks, that you learn with time and experience, that make your final result better. Many standalones, for example, only supports mpeg1 352*288 as VCD, as standard says, and no other resolution. But mpeg1 encodes, obtained with TMPGEnc gives you an advantage. At low bitrates, his performance is better in high motion scenes, you won't see pixelation as easy than using mpeg2. For this reason, many people prefers mpeg1. And with mpeg1, the better encoder is TMPGEnc. In opposite, standalones supports in an easy way mpeg2 at not standard resolutions, and you can take your mpeg1 with other res that 480*576(480), burn it as SVCD (in Nero uncheck standard compliance, in VCDEasy discard advise that SVCD needs mpeg2 files) and play it in your standalone. It don't note any difference. 5 - For any other search of knowledge, search the forum or ask us again. See you. |
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What I'm struggling with is getting it to play MPEG2. I think I finally got a small sample to work (honestly, I've burned so many 3-minute samples in the last few days I almost can't remember what I've done :-)). I believe I used the "SKVCD 352 x 480" template, muxing and burning as SVCD. If I try to make a disc using MPEG2 at 528 x 480, I get an odd effect that someone else was talking about in a nearby thread where the video only shows up on the leftmost three-fourths of the screen. My other little standalone (CyberHome) plays MPEG2 at 528 x 480 (or anything else for that matter) and it looks great! So what I'm really shooting for is the highest standard that is shared between these 2 players. I'm also having a little trouble getting aspect ratios to look correct inside of some of these more oddly shaped templates (352 x 480 ?). I don't quite grasp the height being greater than the width. -abs |
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I think this is largely a result of my complete lack of understanding of the GripCrop filter :roll:. I've been under the assumption that most of the external filters (the "grip" ones, anyway) that appear in scripts on this website were developed specifically for KVCD. Anyway, I can't find any documentation in the ususal places, or in the forums. If someone could point me to a post/thread/site that describes the use of these filters (GripCrop, GripSize, GripBorders) in a bit more detail, I'd appreesh. I'd mostly just like a simple definition of what what exactly they're supposed to do, and perhaps a list of their parameters. 8) Thanks for taking the time to give advice :D -abs |
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http://www.kvcd.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2292 |
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... If you can see below in the info line that nothing was changed according with your resolution settings all is ok. Yor final mpg will look ok when playing in a TV (or use BSPlayer and select AR 4:3 that is the same as viewing in TV) But, permit me to say you. Do a complete short sample test, including a CD-RW burn, you will learn much more than with our words. |
Thanks for the above advice. I'll definitely be taking a look at the "Grip" filters thread. I actually had glanced in there before, but I saw that it concerned the "GripFit" filter so I thought that was all. I guess that filter has evolved some.
I've spent quite a bit of time just resizing my movies manually with AviSynth's "LanczosResize" + "AddBorders." Once I figured out how to do this properly (instead of guessing like I always had in the past) it was a breeze. If I can do this on my own with internal filters, do the "grip" filters have any added functionality? ... or is their sole purpose just auto-resizing and border-adding? Anyway, I've created numerous 90-second samples in the last couple of days, and I've used just about every template. Once I figured out correct resizing, this was a pretty quick process. I played with movies of just about every aspect ratio, both PAL and NTSC, and burned plenty of both MPEG1 and MPEG2 as both KVCD and KSVCD. I found that probably the most important factor affecting compatability, at least in my stubborn Apex player, was the horizontal resolution (the CyberHome player still plays just about everything). I had originally thought that the Apex just wasn't going to play MPEG2 from CD media, but that didn't make sense anyway since I watch standard SVCDs all the time. But as long as I use a template with a horizontal res. of 352 or less I can get my product to play in either of my standalone machines. So far, I think the 352 x 480 template is my favorite. Even using MPEG1, the quality is really impressive (not to mention, this is without adding ANY filters to clean up/sharpen/smooth/whatever the image). And best of all, the encode times are QUICK! I've also started playing with the KDVD templates, which is easy stuff compared with the CD formats. Thanks for all your work on KDVD/KVCD :-) -abs |
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