aspect ratio in HC
 

About ASPECT param in HC Encoder:

1) What is 2:21:1? I think usually the DVD movies aspect ratio is 16:9...

2) What is 9:16 or 3:4?

3) If I use HC from a Avisynth script with GripFit (automatic resize, crop, aspect ratio and overscan), HC ASPECT param is ignored?

Thanks.

-Maurus

Thanks for the link. I read tomorow...

Too much aspect ratios... But HC (and QuEnc I remember) has 16:9, 4:3 or 2:21, I wondered if 16:89 is a global name for anamorphic aspect. except 2:21... :?:

What about de Avisynth script,it's ignored? HC use the param *aspect?

Thanks.


-Maurus

Be carrefull this A/R is an indication that will be used during playback. If you set it to 16:9 while your avisynth script provides something that is not anamorphic, then the result will be distorted when you will read on your stanadlone (or any software player that interprets the aspect information of the mpeg file).

16:9 is the ratio of any anamorphic stream existing nowaday. 2.21 is an A/R defined in MPEG2 standard but never used by industry.

Actually HC does not care about this, it just set the corresponding flag in the MPEG2 stream. And this can be changed afterwards using DVDPatcher for instance.

Thanks friend, you are very fast in all day and in all night.... :lol:

Merci beaucoup.

-Maurus

I made several KDVD from DVD source 16:9. The aspect param in HC I setted to 16:9. Also I use a scritp .avs as HC source. Ih this avs script I use GripFit filters for automatic resize, crop and aspect ratio.

My source is DVD 16:9 so I use source_anamorphic=true.

The aspect ratio is not good when I play the m2v video in this software, but It's good in Windows Media Player.

1) Are different both player during playback? for the aspect ratio flag?

2) If I do the resize, crop, oversacan and aspect ratio in AviSynth script, the param HC in must be 4:3, not 16:9?

3) I encoded the same movie with the same AviSynth script in TMPGEnc and the result is also the same. I use 16:9 Display in the aspect ratio also in TMPGEnc and option Center. I must use 4:3 and let the aspect ratio work also to the avs script?


Thanks.


-Maurus

Unfortunally, you miss that for Gripfit, the defaults are :
° source_anamorphic = true
° dest_anamorphic = false

Here you want the source AND the dest to be anamorphic, so you have to change the destination parameter.

wmp do not handle the flag. This is NOT a media player, this is a toy delivered by M$ to pollute your HD and that you can't remove.

If you did not change the gripfit's default for destination format, then your script produced something not anamorphic, and so the param in HC should have been 4:3. This is not what you wanted.

The same occurs for TMPGENC.

If you do not want to redo all you work, you can decide than finally this video won't be anamorphic and you can just remove the 16:9 flag in the stream by using DVDPatcher.

1) I know this...but I believed source_anamorphic=true because my source DVD is 16:9 and dest_anamorphic=false (by default) because my TV is 4:3, not 16:9.

It's not true?

2) I must change HC aspect to 16:9 and AviSynth dest_anamorphic=true, or best I leave 4:3 in HC and dest_anamorphic=false?


-Maurus

Yes you are, but then, you are doing non anamorphic target, and so HC should be setted to "4:3", not "16:9".

I lost the start of your problem so I don't remember if you are doing VCD or DVD.
If you are doing KVCD, then set param to 4:3 and false.
If you are doing KDVD you can use 4:3/false but it's better to use 16:9 / true because in the near future, 4:3 TV won't exist anymore and the next one you will buy will be probably 16:9.

The only drawback is that in anamorphic the picture area is bigger than in 4:3 (letterboxed), so the quality of the encoded picture will be lower for the same file size (more bits to encode -> more compression used).

Thanks, now I understand. :lol:

-Maurus

What happends if I use 4:3/false and I see the picture in a 16:9 TV set?

This is the same situation when you watch a regular TV show.
2 situations : you support a slight distort and you can use an internal zoom of the TV, or (like me) you can't stand this and you decide to watch the picture in 4/3, with black borders on the right and left side.

Note: the zoom do a slight distort because, to avoid to cut to much picture, the 4:3 is first turned to 14:9 then zoomed to 16:9. Generally the distort is not linear (center of the picture not distorted because this is where your eye look at more, edges a lot dirtorted).

Some, let's call it encoding manager softwares, that uses another ones to reach a final DVD or SVCD, manages anamorphic or 4:3 in a special way.
I mean starting with an anamorphic source, if your target is anamorphic it does a crop-resize and another if your target is 4:3, but encoder (at less a avcodec based encoder) is set as 4:3 aspect ratio. I think that difference is give by avs script.

Do you think this is correct or not?
I don't remember well, but you, once, tell me that mencoder did use 16:9 flag in a special way, and not for use, really, when your target is anamorphic, do you remember something about this? It is applicable to the first question?

I did not understand anything ! But I think that we are going again to start a discussion I already had with Muaddib : anamorphic DVDs ARE 4:3 :!:
So I guess you have your answer.

ALL in mencoder is a new reason to trash the tool. I don't remember all the details.
See the first answer :lol:, but it seems so.

Then, excuse my ignorance.
I will try to explain it better.
When I see at my DVDs cover, I can se some 4:3, some 16:9 and so.
I though, excuse me, that another than 4:3 was anamorphic and 4:3 not.
I would like to know, can I take a 4:3 DVD and a 16:9 one and do a backup 2 in 1 at anamorphic, with that encoding manager softwares. I want to say, in that software, you can select your target as 4:3 letterboxed or "encode anamorphic", but not for each movie isolate, but for 2 movies. Then, I repeat my question, can I take 4:3 movie and 16:9 (or any other ar different that 4:3) and reencode it as "anamorphic" and put it, both, in same final DVD?
That software keep its avcodec based encoder with 4:3 flag even you selected "encode anamorphic". The correct ar is gave for the avs script.
Is that correct?

Don't you think that the answer depends on the software you plan to use and I can't answer without knowing it ?

This sentence does not means anything I'm sorry. If the encoder do not raise the 16:9 flag, your DVD is not anamorphic in the end and you will have conehead during playback. Unless you use dvdpatcher.
I can repeat that again and again and again : the only diff between an anamorphic DVD and a 4:3 one is NOT the A/R (4:3 in both cases) but the flag.

I fear that your tool using avcodec is as forgetable as the encoder itself...

Hi Phil :),
Sometimes I think you're too hard on MEncoder and FFmpeg :).
Though I agree that it has a long way to go untill it's stable enough for regular usage with MPEG1 and 2.
Cheers

Only for our purpose here. I don't tell that using it for doing mkv to avi or encoding in ac3 is not good (even if I don't know if that really works, I just read it can... like I read it can do MPEG2 ;-)). I just don't understand why people here (and I do really mean my words) loose their time using it as so much other encoder give GREAT results. HC did better in its very first release !

That's right.
But by then HC didn't exist and we were looking at alternatives for Tmpgenc lack of consistency when it comes to CQ curve and with the problem of a very expensive CCE.
And I was looking at D9's HC thread for a long time, before someone post it here.
I just didn't want to post anything untill I was sure HC was a strong contender.
Mainly because I was feeling sad with the kind of support we got from the MPlayer development team.
I'm very glad Hank joined us here too and that now we can choose.
Cheers

If anamorphic DVDs are allways 4:3, then I must use allways (in AviSynth GripFit filter) source_anamorphic=false?

Thanks,



-Maurus

Did I tell than anamorphic DVD are not anamorphic ? I don't think so.
Of course "Anamorphic" DVD are anamorphic (so source_anamorphic=true).

As I said previously in the thread :
You have to put "source_anamorphic=true" into your script to tell to gripfit that the 16:9 flag has been setted in the source. Else it do not know that and it can't compute the resizing parameters correctly (the flag tells to gripfit "don't forget to turn this 4:3 picture into 16:9 before to crop and size it, else the characters will be coneheaded").

Ok, thanks.


-Maurus

Let's go again! :D

I need to know when to set 16:9 or 4:3 or what else (please do an extended answer) in TMPGEncoder, HC Encoder, NuEnc, QuEnc, CCE, and in general in any encoder that supports this option.

i.e.: NuEnc have option checks for 16:9, 4:3, 2:21 and 1:1, HC Encoder 16:9, 4:3 and don't know if any more.

I encoded 2 movies in 16:9 but dvd2avi show sources as 4:3. I play they in BSPlayer and, when select 16:9 they are not proportioned, but yes when select 4:3. Avicodec info 4:3 as 16:9 and 16:9 as 2:21. So I don't understand nothing.
Can anybody here make me understand it from here and for ever. :lol:
Thank you very much.

BTW: Can I keep those encoded files or I must to reencode it again?

You set 16:9 if you want something anamorphic. And that is for source from 1.77 to 2.35.
For the same sources you set 4:3 is you want them letterboxed.

Note1: even in anamorphic all these sources will have borders; but smaller than if 4:3 is choosed.

Note2: anamorphic is allowed only in MPEG2 and in res upper to 352*480(576)

Note3: forget about 2.21 that all encoder propose because THIS IS NOT SUPPORTED BY ANY STANDALONE !

Note4: selecting "16:9" or "4:3" in the encoder does not change ANYTHING to the A/R of the picture that is inside the box.

And for the last time remember that all these fucking stupid encoders are using 16:9 to say anamorphic AND all anamorphic streams ARE 4:3
(I say that differently ? Ok : when you select 16:9 in any encoder you want, it produces something that is 4:3. Funny isn't it ? I say funny because when I call that stupid, it seems to hurt some eyes)

Trust me, there is really nothing hard to understand. All is in the part in big letters above. The day all this developpers will call things their real name (I mean anamorphic and not 16:9) we will stop to have this kind of sentence :
(except that this tool has perhaps a problem, I never use it to check the A/R)

when you say :
I think that you mean you encoded 2 DVD with a picture that have 1.77 as A/R but that were not anamorphic. That is why DVD2AVI shows them as "4:3" (understand : 16:9 flag not raised in the stream). And that also means that the source were letterboxed. If you did not remove the bortders before to encode them, then that is normal that the movies are correctly proportionned only when you select 4:3 in the player, and not 16:9. And so, even if you selected "16:9" in the encoder ! (see note 4)

I still couldn't understand that if you didn't used so big letters. Thank you. :D

I meant what I said. In dvd2avi dvd source is showed as 4:3:

http://www.digitalfaq.com/archives/i...2005/07/10.png

I encoded it with anamorphic flag (16:9).
Source is not anamorphic.
avs line is GripCrop(704, 576, overscan=2, source_anamorphic=false)
Is it ok?

That correspond to what you obtained, but not to what you wanted to obtain ;-). you'd forgotten to put "dest_anamorphic=true". So gripcrop computed the resize to have a 4:3 ratio. That's why the picture is well proportionned only when you select 4:3 into your player.

Note: with this mistake you can see that the word "16:9" put on the box (the stream) does not tell anything about what is inside the box (the movie itself). That's why is should be so much better to use "anamorphic" and "flat" (the official cinematographic words, where all this came from I remind you) in the encoders insteed of "16:9" and "4:3".

Sure, I agree.

Can I keep my work or I need to reencode it?

I completely agree with you there Phil, I wish developers of encoding tools would use the correct name in this case Anamorphic because it is confusing and while the more experienced season users may understand it, it makes it harder for the noobs to understand about the aspect ratio.

I hope in future versions maybe the developers can use the proper name but I wouldn't hold my breath. :lol:

You can keep your work but you should use DVDPatcher to remove the 16:9 flag on the stream else your standalone will switch to 16:9 mode and all will be distorted (the same way that when you set "16:9" in your media player).

Can I to encode a source no anamorphic as anamorphic with a good result?

I did one this afternoon ;-)