bitrate table that could be used as reference ?
 

Dialhot & Kwag & Prodater64 & Everyone else :D

Could you type a "bitrate table" that could be used as reference ? In this table, should be included: resolution, bitrate, classification: High/Medium/Low.

Example:

NTSC:

RESOLUTION:************BITRATE(KBPS)****************"CLASSIFICATION"
720x480********************6000-8000************************High values
720x480********************3000-5000************************medium values
720x480********************900-2500**************************low values

RESOLUTION:************BITRATE(KBPS)****************"CLASSIFICATION"
352x480********************3000-5000************************High values
352x480********************1500-2000************************medium values
352x480********************700-1200**************************low values

RESOLUTION:************BITRATE(KBPS)****************"CLASSIFICATION"
352x240********************2000-3000************************High values
352x240********************1000-1800************************medium values
352x240********************600-1000**************************low values

this is only a example that I just invented right now.
Well if you guys can type a similar table for NTSC/PAL .
Or just tell the intervals, would be nice.

I hope this is not ask too much ^_^

*: the blank space in this table is the char [ALT+255]

best regards, sparskter

Re: Could any1 type a "bitrate table" that could b
 

No :!: :D
Every movie has different complexity, so each movie will have a different bitrate allocation.
Hint: Use CQMatic and CalcuMatic ;)

-kwag

Re: Could any1 type a "bitrate table" that could b
 

Lol, that's very true Karl, it's like saying how long is a piece of string. :D :lol: :lol:

Too late in the night Karl :)
He asks for a MAXIMUM bitrate table :)

I'm currently in a meeting at work but I will post my values later.

And to early in the day for me it seems lol, to many late nights and getting up early was bound to catch up with me sooner or later. :D

Hum... as I was just typing my values in the table I'm now wondering : why a value range for a given resolution and not a fixed value ?
So perhaps you are right, the question is about average bitrate and then there is no possible answer.

Sparkster, can you precise your question please ?

I can give my idea about values for MAX bitrate. I think this can have interest for some people.

Re: Could any1 type a "bitrate table" that could b
 

Thanks for the info kwag! Nevertheless, I downloaded CQMATIC and CACUMATIC. Great tool!
Anyway I was wondering a concept:

http://www.digitalfaq.com/archives/i.../2005/08/9.png

If I want a 170 MB of final size and the media file is 23 minutes and 32 seconds lenght,
then I assume that CalCuMatic is doing this:

http://www.digitalfaq.com/archives/i...2005/08/10.png

and for the video:

http://www.digitalfaq.com/archives/i...2005/08/11.png

If this procedure is correct, I am wondering: what about the video resolution ? Does NOT it matter ?
I mean, the resolution of a video file is NOT strictly related to bitrate ?
If the resolution is NOT related to bitrate,
can I assume that a 720x480 @ 859 KBPS will have the SAME quality as 352x240 @ 859 KBPS ?

And about this:
Where this analysis is being performed ? I mean, when we encode in a 2-pass process,
I think the encoder, performs the first pass to analyse the complexity of the video, right ?
I assume that in CQMATIC:

http://www.digitalfaq.com/archives/i...2005/08/12.png

If the option "Deep Prediction" is reponsible for a deep analysis, I will have a problem,
because the tool is aiming to TMPGENC and I am using HC15A & QUENC
(wich I think are far better for MPEG-2 Encodes, right ?
TMPGENC is pretty good for MPEG-1 If I Recall Correctly)

Yes, good idea! Well, my original idea/thinking is: which values are optimal to each resolution in a "multipurpose" method (for any kind of video).

Once again I recall: is NOT the resolution strictly related to bitrate ?

And finally this illustrates where I want get into. I do not know the technical name for this "side effect".
I would call it "macro blocks". Because in fact, they are big blocks.
I know this occurs when you use a low bitrate for encoding.
And I think that MPEG-2 standard requires a lot more bitrate than MPEG-4 for the same quality is it right ?.

http://www.digitalfaq.com/archives/error.gif

Well, in just few words: "which is the minimal bitrate for you not get "macro blocks" in each standard DVD resolution".

PS: Dialhot, if you just wanna do a table for maximum values, please, do it. It may be very useful too.
Anyway, "ranges" and "minimals" would ber very appreciated :lol:

Re: Could any1 type a "bitrate table" that could b
 

No :)
It doesn't matter. NO :!:
Do the math :arrow:
352x240 = 84,480 pixels.
720x480 = 345,600 pixels.
So you need way higher bitrate on 720x480 to maintain the same "quality bitrate" per pixel, as you would on 352x240. Not really. Not to mention that TMPEG is truly 100% DVD compliant, and HC and QUENC (or any other avcodec based front end), which are not 100% DVD compliant. It's also very good for MPEG-2, but not as good as CCE. Yes it does. That would be the correct definition if you were using CBR. Because we are using variable bitrate, either in CQ mode or 2-pass, if you want to do that, then you set your MIN bitrate to the lowest value that your SAP will permit.
Then this will give you more available bits for total movie distribution.

-kwag

Re: Could any1 type a "bitrate table" that could b
 

Let's not drag HC down to avcodec level :wink:

kwag, I had a problem with a Standalone SONY , model -> [DVP NS315]

video: NTSC,352x240, MPEG-2, overscan=2, audio: 128 kbps, avrbitrate: 800

*PAL-M was impossible on this sony standalone. Even @720x576, using HC or quenc.

TMPGENC: the video encoded with tmp, played really weird. The video was locking, and playing, locking and playind. And a lot of starnge blocks, really huge and some were green.

CCE-SP 2.70 : the same effect....

HC15A & QUENC: the video played perfectly!

How to explain that ? :(

Re: Could any1 type a "bitrate table" that could b
 

Thanks Boulder.
I should have been more specific :)
QuEnc, FreeEnc, NuEnc, but EXCLUDING HC ;)

-kwag

Muxing :?:

@kwag

The video and audio are separated : video.m2v & audio.mp2

And then they are loaded up in DVD LAB and then everyone knows the rest: you have the .VOB´s ready to burn.

Like I said. 352x240, using HC & QUENC the video played just fine. TMPGENC & CCE not. But a LG standalone player played it pretty fine!

352x480: all plays pretty fine in the sony standalone.

maybe some "specific" incompatibility :wink:

I started to think that Standalone players "does not like" low resolutions. But I googled it: http://www.mpeg.org/MPEG/DVD/Book_B/Video.html

And there we can see that 352x240 is official from MPEG-2 standard.

Well forget it. It is a specific situation. It´s life 8)

best regards

sparskter

Someone on the forum has exactly the opposite case : everything that not comes from tmpgenc shokes on his player, and especially what does HC. We did not manage to find the reason if I remember well.