You should take into account testing various sources cause as you can see I got clear spikes up to 9900 where 9000 was set as maximum.

Re: Thanks.
 

DITTO :!:

-kwag

Same here.
No need to post my findings since they are already documented from other's posts here.
And Sagittaire, if you take a look at the old MEncoder part of the forum you'll notice how Kwag, Incredible,myself and many others were all the biggest supporters of MEncoder.
I think it's a wonderful player (MPlayer) and it's a fine encoder for non-MPEG1/2.
Cheers

Of course :!: I'm following this thread and I solved to do some tests for fun and knowledge purposes only. I never used Mencoder before and I was interested to test Sagittaire's statements out and for my few tests I could to verify that following him instructions I got a MPEG2 streams in compliance with DVD specs.

But, the tests are insufficient? Yep, of course. Should I to do several tests with it? Yep, but when I get some free time.

I'm not questioning yours results as I know that you're a expert and very serious guy (and I did see yours results). I'm just showing my experience with a few tests that I did.

BTW, take an eye in the bitrate graph below:

http://www.digitalfaq.com/archives/error.gif

You can see the average/peak bitrate reported by BV from Lab and the histogram/continuous distribution approached. In the histogram you can see clearly some spikes into it, right? OK, I've to say that this bitrate spike is from a piece of ORIGINAL VOB - Harry Potter II - which I cut off using Kutter ;).

Other bitrate graphs:

Original VOB (Harry Potter II - R4)
http://www.digitalfaq.com/archives/i.../2006/03/1.png

Encoded with CCE (OPV - Q = 1)
http://www.digitalfaq.com/archives/error.gif

I put these graphs here because I did stay surprise with them. JFYI. :)

Regards,

Hi Danilo :),
This is some interesting findings you did 8O.
I don't look at DVDLab's BV window, even because I do most of my authoring with Muxman.
But I'll take a look at it one of these days.
BTW, does the real BitRate Viewer tool show similar results with those Harry Potter movies?
Nice seeing you around ;).
Cheers

PS: Oh, and send my best to Gino :)

PS2: Here's some late night findings with the original BitRate Viewer 1.5 and some original VOBs.
The movies were Batman Begins and Catwoman.
None of them broke the 9.000Kbit/s roof.
Here's goes some pictures

Batman Begins - Zone 2 - PAL

http://www.digitalfaq.com/archives/i.../2006/03/2.png

Catwoman - Zone 2 - PAL

http://www.digitalfaq.com/archives/i.../2006/03/3.png

Tomorrow I'll try to post some HCEnc 0.17 and some MEncoder encoded streams and post the results.
Cheers

Hi, Rui!
 

@rds_correia

Hi, mate!! I'm always around here, but generally I just read the threads because of the experts here "dão conta do recado"! :D

Yep, I did stay puzzled with these 'findings' so I did solve to post them. They're really strange but maybe my DVD-Lab version be a bit old and so not up-to-date (I mean the BV tool from it).

BTW, even BV from TECO doesn't show the correct average bitrate from a videostream (even that without pulldown flags cos I did see that pulldown ones 'increase' - artificially - the bitrate of videostream).

I just burned a CDRW right now (I did a miniDVD with Nero Express because of I haven't DVDRW right now - and I always forget to buy it, oh boy! :( ) and watched in my 29" TV set and the quality is awesome for a 1790 Kbits/s encoding (not used filters, not used post-processing from DGMPEGDec, just decoding/encoding ;) ). As the max bitrate was lower than 6000 Kbits/s I hadn't any stuttering or other playback issue (again, in this case the max bitrate was respected, even that 'instant bitrate' and the 'peak bitrate from a continuous distribution' as well).

Cheers,

Beside spikes etc. ... it was clearly reported (not only here) that even if the bitrates are in the DVD compilant range, that is NO proof that this result is full DVD compilant. Many users reported problems (specially on Pioneer devices) that no proper playback of their "DVD compilant range looking" result is given.

Well it's not my fault if Bitrate Viewer can't analyse correctly the MPEG2 stream. FFDShow or Impressionist MPEG2 analyser can make correct quantizer analysis ... :roll:

And yes actually Libavcodec use the best codec for metric ... 8)
MPEG2 : the best and by far
MPEG4 ASP : actually little better than XviD or DivX
MPEG4 AVC : x264 is actually the best absolute video codec in the world
SNOW : very promising open source codec/norme ... done actually same result than MPEG4 ASP


p_mask=<0.0−1.0> (also see vi_qfactor)
Reduces the quality of inter blocks. This is equivalent to increasing the quality of intra blocks, because the same average bitrate will be distributed by the rate controller to the whole video sequence (default: 0.0 (disabled)). p_mask=1.0 doubles the bits allocated to each intra block.

naq
Normalize adaptive quantization (experimental). When using adaptive quantization (*_mask), the average per-MB quantizer may no longer match the requested frame-level quantizer. Naq will attempt to adjust the per-MB quantizers to maintain the proper average.

qprd (mbd=2 only)
Rate distorted optimal quantization parameter (QP) for the given lambda of each macroblock.

Mencoder encoding
http://www.digitalfaq.com/archives/error.gif



I will make annonce on http://forum.surdvd.com/ for test my mencoder stream for all possible Pionner SAP ... but I know already the answer ... :wink:

Any planning to release these profiles?

TIA,

Sagittaire, regarding to the "float" Quantizer info in your pic samples:
Which FFdshow Version are you using?

Unfortunaly I format actually my system (Motherboard out ... snif) but ffdshow is very recent version.

Anyway, linear or no linear, adaptative or not adaptative is not important. Linear quantisation is perhaps not same function that adaptative quantisation. I don't know if mencoder can or can't use no linear quantisation. I don't know if Bitrate Viewer / FFDShow show real quantizer. I can just say that Bitrate Viewer and FFDShow done different result ... :?:

Real question is compliant or not compliant. I will test my mencoder stream for all possible Pionner SAP and post result here.

PS: do you know the exact pionner model for mencoder problem ... ???

DV-444 and DVR-220 are the most common SAP that have problems with bitrate but don't know how they deal specifically with mencoder. But you already been in a thread talking about libavcodec, bitrate control and spikes. I let you refresh your memories :
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=699882

And, BTW what a nice set of posts we can read further in that D9 thread :lol:.
Very...educational :lol:.

I will test that with my "mencoder low bitrate profil" and I post result here.

yes hank315 (as always) done good solution. but hank315 is MPEG2 dev ... it's really easy for him.

1) Adaptative quantisation and Linear quantisation are simply not same function. Libavcodec use Linear quant and use AQ. HC, TMPGEnc use non linear quant and use AQ. Inc and me not speack simply about the same function ...

2) FFDShow OSD seem show linear/non linear quantisation. I don't know what exactly BV show (real overall quantizer or overall linear/ no linear quant ???)


but hank315 say too
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=98633&page=4

Little off-topic : is the Nic of Doom9 the person who created the Nic's Xvid ?

Yes.

Thanks.

Off-topic ended. :lol:

Small remark: Nic is not the creator of XviD.
XviD has it's own development team.
That means that Nic simply compiles the sources found in XviD.org ;).
I used the word simply not meaning that it is a simple task.
But it's definitly a simpler task compared with the development team.

@Sagittaire,
Actually I was not speaking of Hank315 when I said that there were interesting posts further on that D9 thread.
Instead I was refering to john3volta's and to kwag's posts vs Nic's and DragonGodz's posts.
I'd say that john3voltas and kwag had a point there.

Well first result for Pionner:

- Pioneer DV-380 : Seem OK
- Pioneer DV-444 : Seem OK
- Pioneer DV-454 : Seem OK
- Pioneer DV-575 : Seem OK

I can't find tester for DVR-220 ... :oops:

I have a Pioneer DV-380-S and it reads virtually *anything* that I throw at it.
This is the latest generation for Pioneer SAP products and they're based on MediaTek's chipsets (basically chinese chipsets).
You can't run a test on SAP generations that read everything.
You gotta go deep into 3 or 4 year old SAPs and I'm sure you'll find plenty of SAPs that just can't read mplayer output correctly.
If I had an encoder and wanted to test it, I'd choose a 4 year old Philips state of the art DVD player.
They're know to *stick to the standards*.
Hell, some of them don't even read KSVCD :lol:.
Cheers

Well in fact your previous problem for mencoder was:
- Overflow problem
- Motion vector range problem

1) Overflow problem
My multipass profil solve this problem only for medium/low bitrate encoding. If you want something like average q3 encoding or less my profil work without underflow.

2) Motion Vector Range problem
Old SAP like Pioneer, Philips and Koss use strict motion vector range (512 pixel for horizonal vector and 128 for vertical vector) and these old SAP are completely unable to play MPEG2 without strict motion vector range compliance. Now Mencoder is able to set max motion vector range (me_range for horizontal/vertical motion vector) and can produce strict motion vector range compliance for these old player.


New: It's possible to use coef > 7 now for libavcodec. You can use if you want Notch matrix with mencoder.

@Sagittaire

And the others profiles that you would go post them here :?: I'm looking forward for them ...

Cheers,

You say "use this particular SAP for your test". I use this SAP and my stream play very well. IMO I can make test with all these old SAP too if you want ... but result will be always the same simply because my mencoder stream are compliant.

Now try to find incompatible SAP yourself if you want with my stream. IMO I prove that my mencoder stream are compliant (with all possible software and all your "reference" SAP).

@Danpos

Well I use simply MPEG2 encoder for PAL DVD progressive encoding. Unfurtunaly I don't have time for test other encoding profil ...

Listen Sagittaire, cut the bullshit and admit that noone besides you will ever use an encoder that can't handle certain settings that you might choose.
If someone/something has to refrain that should never be the end user.
If the encoder knows that it will fail in certain conditions then it should advise the user that it will disable certain settings in order to procede with the encoding.
Mencoder/ffmpeg can be the best codec out there but noone will be interested in it's magical quality until it gets some serious fixing in those bugs.
Plus, I told you that there were SAPs out there that couldn't play Mencoder output but besides my AG I didn't specify which models didn't like it.
It was Dialhot who told you about DV-444 and DVR-220, not me.
I will completely refuse to do your work.
You're the one interested in proving that mencoder is compliant, not me.
So don't come saying that you did your part of the game and that it worked for you and that now it's me who has to go out to prove my point.
You gotta be kidding me!!!
Cheers

Well You say always "Mencoder can't make compliant stream". I say "I think that Mencoder can make complaint stream and I will try to prove that".

- I post my profil CLI and my procedure encoding for Mencoder
- I try all possible sofware to check stream
- I try all your "reference SAP"
- hank315 say problem is motion vector length and new me_range setting solve this problem


Try to use my mencoder stream with your "el cheapo" AG DVD-336K and post result here if you want ... :idea:

And I repeat for the last time little doom9 thread with hank315:


I can't make more ... my stream is not DVD compliant ... well ... prove it if you want now.

You still haven't get it, have you :?:
I don't need to proove a damn thing to you :!:
It's the other way around: it is you who need to proove everything.
And there's one thing that you can't forget: if you want to proove something you'll have to use a SAP that goes stricktly by the book.
So go find a 4 year old Philips SAP and try your encodes.
If they work fine then you have another problem: how will you try to convince anyone to use an encoder that goes nuts and produces garbage when you press the wrong button???
Sagittaire :arrow: get a life...

If you want I can make that too but it's really useless particulary for Philips SAP (old or new) simply because DVD-Video Verifier v1.5.0 from Philips itself say "compliant stream". But I make actually new encoding for DivX CDR test update and I will certainely use Libavcodec for MPEG2 : certainely that more than 200 compatible SAP will be good argument ... lol


It's not my objective. My objective is just to find the best MPEG2 compliant encoder for metric test.

Then stick to CCE or TMPGEnc, because anything that comes out of avcodec IS NOT 100% compliant :!:

-kwag

Actually I think that friendly user Open Source encoder like HCEnc or QEnc produce compliant stream. More difficult with Mencoder (bitrate restriction) but it's possible for medium/low bitrate and I prove that with DVD-Video Verifier v1.5.0 from Philips (absolutly no error checking for motion vector or vbv) and with your referenced SAP (your mencoder stream are bad but not my mencoder stream with my profil). Like I was always say your mencoder sub-forum (libavcodec) done very old information but libavcodec is continuously developped : there are always RC problem for vbv restriction for high bitrate encoding (new beta RC from XviD in mencoder will solve perhaps that) but motion vector problem is solved since a long time (motion vector is the problem for SAP like Pionner and Philips).

And our objective is to create KDVD's which will actually PLAY in a SAP.

And IMO, libavcodec isn't the best encoder in the world so why bother with all kinds of scripts, profiles and others hassels?

Forget about it gamma.
He will never understand that there are better things in life instead of spending hours trying to create a Mencoder CLI that will not bomb when it plays in a SAP for every encoding project we have.
On the other hand he's right.
He launched a legit question to the forum: which is the best MPEG2 encoder according to metrics.
He didn't say that we wouldn't be able to rule out an encoder just because it ain't compliant or because it can easily produce an uncompliant stream...:roll:
To tell you the truth, I'm outta here for good :!:

Yeah you're right :lol:

I'm outta here also!