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Jellygoose

06-13-2003 05:32 AM

KVCD: LOTR Extended Edition on one CD-R!

:lol:
Hi all!

I'm gonna experiment a little and I'm trying to put the 210 ( :!: :!: ) minutes of Lord Of The Rings 1 Extended Edition on one 99 min. CD-R.
You might say this is impossible with an acceptable quality. However I want to try.
Here's my question: What kind of script would you use for it. I think it might be a good idea to add blockbuster noise to the very end, to avoid DCT-blocks, and use a higher sharpening value, something like
asharp(2.5,4)

Do you think it would be a good idea to use the adaptive blockbuster filter also? or should I just leave it detail-adaptive, as it already is?
thanks for replies!

jorel

06-13-2003 06:10 AM

hi my friend
:)

maybe with this values asharp(2.5,4),
the image can stay very "brilliant" and
maybe "negative" in the edges. :?

blockbuster noise is a good choice but
CQ will decrease too much after prediction.

your only problem will be the low CQ.

kwag	06-13-2003 06:23 AM

Hey Jellygoose,

I think you can use the current script just as it is, but I would use 352x480(576) because that's a very long movie :!:
Do a file prediction at 352x480(576) and see how the sample comes out. I'm pretty sure it will make it :)

-kwag

Jellygoose

06-13-2003 06:47 AM

I forgot, I actually planned to use 352x288 PAL VCD resolution for it... I'll run some prediction tests later tonight, and will compare both resolutions!
This is so much fun! :D

jorel

06-13-2003 07:21 AM

352x288 Jellygoose?

will be cool of course, you will got good CQ with the corrent script :!:

:D

andybno1

06-13-2003 12:54 PM

just reading this makes me want to experiment with the extended version but I will aim at putting it on 1 80min cd, lets see what the pair of us can do eh.

andybno1

06-15-2003 10:09 AM

well I fell at the first hurdle, after prediction I got a cq value of 0.958 quality was so bad I gave up.

kwag	06-15-2003 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andybno1

well I fell at the first hurdle, after prediction I got a cq value of 0.958 quality was so bad I gave up.

Not at 352x240(288) 8O
You should be able to put that on one CD at that resolution, because I put "The Green Mile" (180 minutes) on one CD with the LBR :!:
CQ was up in the 50's.

-kwag

Jellygoose

06-15-2003 12:33 PM

Can someone give me a good blockbuster line for this purpose please?

kwag	06-15-2003 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jellygoose

Can someone give me a good blockbuster line for this purpose please?

Try this:

BlockBuster(method="noise", detail_min=1, detail_max=10, variance=0.7, seed=5823 )

That's for 352x240(288). Try it on a small clip first :idea:

-kwag

Jellygoose

06-15-2003 02:44 PM

Thanks. Right now I'm still doing tests for 352x576, and results are promising :D
However I have some problems with prediciton, because the film is on 2 DVDs... I would actually join the Vobs, but I need subtitles on both DVDs, and they would get out of sync I think :roll:
I can't even load both .d2v files into one AviSynth Script because of the Subtitles I think. Because I would need two VobSub lines, and the subtitles for both DVDs start at 0 minutes of course...
get that?

kwag	06-15-2003 02:57 PM

You're going to have to use Vobedit and Ifoedit to create a joined set of VOBs. Then you can tackle the task of encoding it :)

-kwag

Jellygoose

06-15-2003 03:14 PM

:idea: You know I can't wait kwag!! :D
What I'll do is just use ToK with the first DVD, then with the second, and just use half of the factor I'd use for a normal encode. Later I join the 2 files to 1 MPEG... :wink:
I know this is the dirtiest method to do this, but right now it works...

What I can say right now is this: Static Scenes just look 8O for that length of a movie... when it comes to action, it gets blocky. :cry:
Artifacts around objects also concern me...

andybno1

06-16-2003 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kwag

Quote:

Originally Posted by andybno1

well I fell at the first hurdle, after prediction I got a cq value of 0.958 quality was so bad I gave up.

Not at 352x240(288) 8O
You should be able to put that on one CD at that resolution, because I put "The Green Mile" (180 minutes) on one CD with the LBR :!:
CQ was up in the 50's.

-kwag

Yeah I can get it on one disc as film is only 219mins. the prob I encounted was a EXTREMELY blocky picture, it was like watchin a streaming vieo for a 14.4k modem.

andybno1

06-16-2003 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jellygoose

to have the two discs together, download claddvd it can rip dvds to one vob file, do this with both cd's and then put both vob files through dvd2avi and run the two vobs through IFO Edit and u should be set.

Quote:

What I can say right now is this: Static Scenes just look 8O for that length of a movie... when it comes to action, it gets blocky. :cry:
Artifacts around objects also concern me...

what CQ level did u get predicted? or used?

Jellygoose

06-16-2003 04:00 PM

I get a CQ of 77.3 @ 352x288 resolution. But that's for a 99 min. CD-R and with 96kb audio... However, picture really looks ok for that length...
did you say ONLY 219 min. ?? 8O
What movies do you usually watch?

Jellygoose

06-17-2003 06:45 AM

Results:

Ok, I wasn't really satisfied with my results for this movie, when I watched it on my computer monitor! I could clearly see that blocks showed up on high action scenes, the whole image seemed very soft (thus the resolution was only 352x288) and the worst thing was that I couldn't get rid of the artifacts around objects. However, I burnt it on CD and watched it on the standalone and the results were simply 8O 8O 8O :D :D :D

I couldn't believe that this quality was achieved for 210 min. on a 99 min. CD-R. The picture looked way better than on the computer monitor. I know this is always the case, but the lower the resolution is, it seems to me the better artifacts are compensated by the DVD player. The artifacts around the objects were simply GONE!! :D
Even the image looked to me a LOT sharper than it seemed on the computer monitor!! Now it's not that the whole image is soft, but only background scenes are of less detail. That doesn't bother me at all... I'll post a sample later on, and you guys can watch it!! 8)

Yoda	06-17-2003 08:18 AM

@JellyGoose
Is your DVD player progressive?

-Yoda

Jellygoose

06-17-2003 09:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yoda

@JellyGoose
Is your DVD player progressive?

-Yoda

Don't know... What do you mean by progressive? :oops:
If your question is if the player shows interlaced video or not, then no, there are no horizontal lines... 8)

vico1

06-17-2003 12:23 PM

@Jellygoose,

Can we see your script???

************************************
The Devil.....is always.....in the Details!

audi2honda

06-17-2003 01:08 PM

a better question is how big is your TV?

I progressive scan player will not magically remove compression artificats

kwag	06-17-2003 01:34 PM

Unless Jellygoose's DVD player has a built in "Faroudja" video processor, and then it does indeed remove artifacts in real time from the picture.

-kwag

audi2honda

06-17-2003 01:37 PM

I have a Faroudja processor in my panasonic player, but I still see artifacts in low detail areas or maybe I'm confusing artifacts with dct blocks?

kwag	06-17-2003 01:48 PM

Yes, me too!. I use the progressive output from the Panasonic into a Samsung 32" HDTV, and I can see DCT blocks even on DVDs :lol:

Edit: I mean I use "Component" output to the HDTV :roll:

-kwag

audi2honda

06-17-2003 01:53 PM

Yup. Funny you should mention that. In some ways HDTV is bad because combined with a good progressive player you even see flaws in real DVDs and it enhances those on our compressed KVCDs.

On another note a brief story from last night. I have a 50" widescreen which shows lots of detail and I told my girlfriend I her to watch this KVCD encode of Arlington Road I did to see what she thought about the quality.

Well I put it in (it was a 2CD encode of 117 minutes 704_480 that came out to 79CQ)

About 5 minutes into it she said.. "So when are you going to put your encoded copy in so I can compare?"

I said "This is the encoded and compressed copy!!!". She didn't even notice although my overly critical eyes saw the dct blocks and some banding :D :D :D

Jellygoose

06-17-2003 04:09 PM

I have a Cyberhome ADL-528 Player, and a 74cm regular TV set. We use the metric system, so don't know how many inches...
Here's the script I used:

Code:

## DLL Section ## 

# 

LoadPlugin("E:\MPEG-Tools\FitCD\MPEG2Dec3.dll") 

LoadPlugin("E:\MPEG-Tools\FitCD\STMedianFilter.dll") 

LoadPlugin("E:\MPEG-Tools\FitCD\asharp.dll")

LoadPlugin("E:\MPEG-Tools\FitCD\undot.dll")

LoadPlugin("E:\MPEG-Tools\FitCD\vsfilter.dll")

LoadPlugin("E:\MPEG-Tools\FitCD\blockbuster.dll")

# 



## Defined Variables and Constants ## 

# 

MaxTreshold = 1.55 

scd_trigger = 30 # Scene change trigger value. 

nf =  0 # Current frame. 

# 

#### 



Mpeg2Source("E:\HERR DER RINGE 2\hdr2.d2v") 



Undot()

Limiter() 

asharp(1.5,4)



BilinearResize(352,224,0,0,720,576)

STMedianFilter(8, 32, 0, 0 ) 



MergeChroma(blur(1.55)) 

MergeLuma(blur(0.025))



## Dynamic Linear Adaptive Filtering and Scene Change Detection ## 

# 

# ( Portions from AviSynth's manual ) - This will apply temporalsoften to 

# very static scenes, and apply variable blur on moving scenes. 

# We also assign a variable - and this is why a line break is inserted: 



ScriptClip("nf = YDifferenceToNext()"+chr(13)+ "nf > 2.5 ? asharp( -(fmin((nf/30), 1)), 0 ) : \ 

TemporalSoften(2,7,7,5,2) ") 



# 

# Scene change detection ( kwag ) - If a scene change is detected, we 

# blur heavily. This affects the scene before and the one after the 

# scene change, thus providing a softer transition for the encoder instead 

# of a sharp "spike". 

# If it's not a scene change, then we just blur dynamically, depending on 

# the action. 



ScriptClip("nf > scd_trigger ? asharp( -2,0) : asharp(0,0) ") 



# 

# 

# 

BlockBuster(method="noise", detail_min=1, detail_max=10, variance=0.6, seed=5823 ) 



Letterbox(0,0,14,14)

AddBorders(0, 32, 0, 32) # Depends on situation. Use MovieStacker! 



Limiter() 

VobSub("E:\HERR DER RINGE 2\Neuer Ordner\vts_01_0")



# 

# 

## Functions ### 



function fmin(float f1, float f2) { 

  return (f1<f2) ? f1 : f2 

} 



# 

####

You guys still have to explain to me what a HDTV is... :oops: I'm sure I know it, but don't recognize it by the english term. 8)

audi2honda

06-17-2003 04:24 PM

High Definition Television. Capable of accepting digital and progressive scan content.

andybno1

06-17-2003 05:02 PM

how would I know if I had a HDTV, or my dvd player has a Faroudja processor?

audi2honda

06-17-2003 05:04 PM

Checkout these forums for tons of info.

www.hometheaterspot.com

www.avsforum.com

andybno1

06-18-2003 11:16 AM

cheers

audioslave

06-28-2003 03:00 PM

@Jellygoose
How did you manage to get such a high CQ value? When I runs ToK prediction the CQ lands somewhere between 4 and 5 8O !!! And how did you fix the subs? I want subs in my encode too but I haven't got a clue on how to pull it off since the movie lies on 2 DVD's... Help me out, please.

andybno1

06-29-2003 03:40 AM

u got a cq of 4 or 5 8O I could only get a cq of 0.956, jelly pls do share with us how u got subs.

Jellygoose

06-29-2003 06:26 AM

8O 8O
Yu guys must be doing something wrong then I'm sure. There's no magic or something with the CQ. I used 352x288 resolution, Bilinear Resize, and Letterbox(0,0,16,16). CQ was around 70 as I recall... That was with Minimum Bitrate 0 and Max Bitrate 1900kb/sec I suppose. Also the audio was only at 96kb/sec to save some bits.
Well as for the subs, I used the simple way. :wink:
I ripped both DVDs and made 2 d2v files. After that I extracted the Subs from both DVDs with VobSub, and encoded both parts with Subs seperately. I used ToK to calculate the right CQ. I just used half the factor I usually use, and finally aimed for a slightly larger size for the first CD.
After that I muxed both files seperately and joined the 2 files in TMPGEnc.
:roll:
Simple, but it worked. :D

andybno1

06-29-2003 06:52 AM

ah right, I processed ripped vob files through dvd2svcd got it rto extract subs, then I got the avs script and took out the bits for subs and it didn't work for some reason. I have done this before and it has worked in the past but for some reason now its now.

audioslave

06-30-2003 06:10 AM

@Jellygoose,
Okay, I'll give it a shot again! With the latest script of course! :D

(This surely got wierd. I mean having to jump back and forth between these two threads. But, I'm to blame :oops: since I posted the same question as you... :? Sorry for that...

Jellygoose

06-30-2003 06:11 AM

No problem, it's hard to read every single thread here... 8)