DVD Decrypter is best?
Hi Guys,
Although I don't profess to be an expert, I have done a few encodes now, and thought myself capable of producing a comprehensive guide for my friends. But just recently I have been reading some posts that have gone against the methods I use. So therefore I'd like to clear a few things up before I go too far with the guide and have to totally rewrite it. :( I usually use SmartRipper to rip the video stream and 1 english audio stream. Dialhot in this thread suggests DVD Decrypter is better than SmartRipper, Ok, but can it rip selected streams? Dialhot also suggests in this thread, not to produce a .WAV in DVD2AVI, but demux to a .AC3 file. This again is Ok, as I can go from AC3 -> MP2 in HeadAC3he. This is all very well, but I could demux the AC3 file when ripping the DVD in SmartRipper, removing the need for DVD2AVI having to do it. Can I do the same in DVD Decrypter? It has also been suggested, but I can't find where, that a GOP structure of 15 should be used to be able to get exact entry points for chapters same as on the DVD. Would this cut down the compression and reduce CQ by much? I'd like to get the chapters bang on, as they're always slightly off, but not at the expense of picture quality. If the difference is too large, I'll live with the chapters the way they are. Interlaced video is an interesting one. Some people say find the correct field order, others say de-interlace and treat as progressive. But which gives the best results for DVD sources? Aspect ratio has always been one to puzzle me. Having a widescreen TV, and wanting to encode a widescreen movie so that it can be viewed on both fullscreen and widescreen TV's without distortion, has been hard for me to grasp :oops: Hopefully Dialhot has put me right in this thread, (thanks Phil). I'll let you all know :) :) Finally, I'd like to thank everybody who has helped in the past, (and hopefully in the future too). I have learnt a lot over the last 5 months, which I couldn't have done without Kwag & co :D |
Re: Seems I'm doing it not quite right
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Make sure you really got an interlaced source. No program can tell you whether it is or isn't, only your eyes can tell. If you can see the combing in DVD2AVI (look in several different spots in the clip), then you have an interlaced clip. If you don't see the combs, treat it like it's progressive. If you encode as interlaced, you must use the correct filtering procedure or you'll get nasty artifacts and very low quality video. Search the forum, there are some threads regarding handling interlaced material. |
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www.incredible.de.tf/aspectratios.html Quote:
The're just encoded at 23.976 with a pulldown flag added, so this is why they JUST APPEAR as a 29.976 interlaced stream! Quote:
Because 99% of all high quality DVD mpeg2 streams are encoded with scene change based I frame insertions!! So the only way to get an exact same architecture of the source is to use IFOEdits TmpgEncTemplate generator which gives an original GOP structure of the source in a txt file you can load into TmpgEncs Forced Picture Type settings!! And so YOU CANT use CCE for example to reproduce an exact GOP architecture as the source gots! Thats only possible using TmpgEnc or ReMpeg! But by doing this the KVCD compression will suffer as its recommended to use 24 / 25 |
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ok, but i was refering to an "exact" same architecture of the whole Gops in the source (as for example needed for remuxing in IfoEdit). For just a same I frame insertion your recommendation could work. :)
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Yes, I forgot to mention that the structure won't be the same, only the forced I-frames will be in the right place.
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Re: Seems I'm doing it not quite right
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Use your eyes to decide whether the clip is interlaced, as I said, DVD2AVI doesn't have a clue. I don't think that Decomb can tell you if the clip is interlaced or not - but feel free to enlighten me if you know some trick that I don't :wink:
MPEG-2 doesn't necessarily need to be deinterlaced (DVDs use MPEG-2). Like I said, if you've got the bitrate to spare, encode as interlaced. You'll get a sharper picture on your TV and smoother movement but the filesize will be somewhat larger with the same CQ than a progressive stream would produce. I suspect that if you encode an interlaced stream as progressive, you would end up with jerky motion and odd artifacts. I don't know what would happen if you encoded a progressive stream as interlaced :?: |
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I use decomb500 with the tutorial (I think you recommended it to me). I use the parameters to get the information before encoding. For example: Telecide(order=1,guide=1,post=3,vthresh=25,show=tr ue) Shows interlaced and progressive frames. |
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NickSteel, why doing that complicate pre-avisynthing just for inspecting if its interlaced or not?
Just open your VOBs in DVD2AVI and move to a fast motion scene if you see combs :arrow: interlaced ... Thats it. I dont give any on what DVD2AVI "says" in the right window, .. I don't trust this. ;-) (EDIT: Boulder just answered this too ;-) ) Quote:
"29,976 FILM NTSC" you see the word "Film" in there! That already means it can't be interlaced. But don't trust DVD2AVI. If you would apply a Telecide() decimate () to such a source ... well ... very bad encodings would come out. The principal thing is that there's NO need to encode a KVCD at 29,976!! 1. 29,976 comes with toooo much movieinformation and therefore much more bits are needed in comparison to 23.976. 2. Encoding mpeg2 already needs some extra bits, but even interlaced will feed by much more bitrate! If you want to preserve the advantages of an interlaced encoding so this is only a full quality point in case of KDVD and thats why I reallocated the Matrix Values to a KVCD interlaced matrix version. Even at sources 29,976 VIDEO (not FILM!) which do base on real 29.976 (not telecined) FPS, ... you can convert this to 23,976 FPS with nice motion preserved! Watch the KVCD interlaced Matrix Thread, there I postet a function, written by sharfis_brain which does exactly such a conversion! Quote:
The interlaced state comes with the Field/Frame structure of the source, so if you just encode this one as "progressive" a ZigZag Matrix scan order will be used on an interlaced stream, ... well that's not a big pain, but its not senseful. Also a "Progressive-only" flag would be set and this could give problems to your standalone. BUT! I suggest you should "try" ... just do some crazy thing and by this you also get some experiences ... and thats where most developings are based on :arrow: try and error. So as Abond said, just try it. ;-) |
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Given the above Telecide line, and with many frames (above the vthresh value) showing combing in VirtualDub-MPEG2, can the clip still be noninterlaced? In other words, can a progressive clip contain this combing? |
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I do a lot of TV captures and most NTSC-origin material don't show much combing. Still it can be found, people's mouths are a good place to look for combing :wink: A Star Trek TOS episode capture may have approximately 10 combed frames out of 75000! When you test if the clip is interlaced or not, don't do any filtering at all. Either check the clip in DVD2AVI as Incredible said or load it in VirtualDub via Avisynth with AVISource("path\clip.avi") as the only line in the script. |
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:D Thanks Guys! |
Nick, in case of DVD as source, open your VOBs in DVD2AVI or in the case:
:arrow: Move in the window to a fast motion scene. Now what do you see?? That?: http://www.digitalfaq.com/archives/i.../2003/12/6.jpg Or that?: http://www.digitalfaq.com/archives/i.../2003/12/7.jpg Images (c) from inmatrix.com In the first case its "really" interlaced and thats what counts, so your NTSC source also will be 29.976! And in case of a Hollywood-Movie you can be shure that its originally shot on FILM! That means in regulary it has been TELECINED and in such a case you perform your telecide(), decimate() commands. In the case below ... its in a progressive state and therefore encoded at 23.976 with a pulldownflag added. And thats why DVD2AVI recognises EVEN THIS as a 29.976 interlaced stream. Here's a nice article: http://www.inmatrix.com/articles/ivtc.shtml Also a must in case of valuable information: http://www.100fps.com/ |
Re: Seems I'm doing it not quite right
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You're welcome :-)
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