Apex users: what templates work best?
 

:P I have been reading through the posts, and I am still not clear on what exactly works for my DVD player, Apex AD-1500. I wasted a couple afternoons and bunch of coasters trying to discover things that I'm sure are already discovered... So please guys, tell me what to use with my Apex AD-1500... From what I get, KVCDx3 works on Apex with 544x480 Mpeg 2 and Mpeg 1, is that true? What else from Kwag's templates can I use on Apex? Please post the exact specific settings if they need to be changed at all... Thanks a lot,

alekov@prodigy.net :D

update on KVCDx3
 

I just made a sample with KVCDx3 544X480 Mpeg 1, which is supposed to work with Apex, however, the audio skips every few seconds... I remember it did that when the min. bitrate on CQ is below 600... so I willt ry to up it from 300 to 600 and hope that will fix it.

Hi Godfather411,

Try KVCDx3 MPEG-2. See if that works :D

-kwag

OK, here is what works for me
 

Apex AD-1500
Koss DVP2161 (portable DVD player)

After experimenting this afternoon, here is what works for both of these DVD playes:

KVCDx3 MPEG 1 template, here are the changes in order to make it work:

Change resolution to 544X480
Change fps from 23 to 29.97
Change VBV to 22

That's all, and it works great. I thought I have to change the min. CQ to 600, however, I guess you don't have to, I tried it both ways and it works both ways, and you can't tell a difference. Also changing the fps to 29.97 did wonders, the pictures is very smooth, not jittery at all, sound is great, and it looks near DVD quality.

I haven't had a chance to play around with MPEG2 yet, but I assume that same changes should do it for MPEG 2 as well.

:lol:

nice news cos in other forums i "see" lots of users problems with this model.
8O

Re: OK, here is what works for me
 

If MPEG-2 works at 23.976, go for that, as the quality produced will be far better that if you encode at 29.97. That is if you're encoding from FILM (DVD) material :wink:

-kwag

Thanks Kwag, I will try that tonight
 

Thanks for all the useful info, I will try the MPEG 2 tonight, the thing is, my MPEG 2 is expired on my desktop, and my laptop has some problems with the ASPI layers so I can't figure out how to make VCD Easy work... So I will encode a movie tonight with it, but I have to figure out how to use VCDEasy on the laptop since it's not finding my burner.

Thanks again :?

Re: Thanks Kwag, I will try that tonight
 

Search the net for a program called "ForceASPI" :wink:

-kwag

Thanks Kwag, you are great!
 

Thanks a lot Kwag, ForceASPI is working wonders! My VCDeasy is working great, and I will have the results by tomorrow... :lol:

I think you did not read the posting before yours about apex players.

I clearly mentioned that. pl. go thru latest posts.

Just use MPEG-2 with any of resolutions (VCD, 1/2D1, fullD1_544x480,
DVD_720x480) at any framerates (23.976,25,29.976) and u r ready to roll on APEX, Samsung, KOSS, Cyberhome, Minetek etc and the same
VCD may not (will not) play in Sony, Panasonic, Toshiba etc. which likes 528x480 MPEG-1.

Thanks gopalkk
 

Thanks gopalkk,

that's exactly what I did. I used KVCDx3 MPEG 2 template from www.kvcd.net , and the ONLY change I made is change the resolution from 528 to 544 X 480. The movie About a Boy came to about 874MB for 103 min. which is great! The quality of the picture is good, however, the movements are all jittery and jumpy, like from one frame to another, and it doesn't look natural. Also I had to use a 90 min. CDR to record it... :D You guys should try the 90 min CDRs, they are great, and the capacity on them shows to be 96:43:33 vs the 80min. 79:57:74 which is over 16 min. extra... :D

Anyway, with the jumpiness of the picture I find it annoying and unacceptable, so I think I will stick to MPEG 1 or even the 352X240 MPEG 1 template so I can fit up to 120min on one cdr and it looks pretty decent. The picture isn't as clear, but at least its smooth.
By the way, I played in both APEX AD-1500 and in KOSS Portable DVD player, and both of them acted exactly the same with the 544x480 MPEG 2 template, even though KOSS took it a tiny bit better, the Apex it looked awful, like the camera settings were 2 frames per second... :D

If anyone has any ideas how to fix it, let me know. :cry:

Re: Thanks gopalkk
 

What are you encoding? Is your source NTSC or PAL DVD?, AVI :?:

Encoding from a DVD
 

DVD source, About a Boy, don't have the movie here so can't tell what it was but pretty sure it was NTSC, it's my friends movie, I just used smart ripper and got it on my laptop hard drive last time I was there. Then I use DVD2Avi and TMPGenc the last one, just downloaded it from their site. The template I used was KVCDx3 MPEG2 only chnaged the resolution to 544 from 528. That's it... I already deleted the files from my hard drive, so I can't even tell what it was... sorry.

Should I try with another movie... I have a bunch of DVDs of my own? Should I try from NTSC or from PAL? Anything else I should know?

thanks again :D

Also, where do I get KVCDx2 templates from? I didn't see them on the site... and it shows that apex supposed to play them no problem... :D

Re: Encoding from a DVD
 

Did you use "Force FILM" in DVD2AVI :idea:

Force Film?
 

NO I didn't... Was I supposed to? I don't think I ever use force film... :D

Re: Force Film?
 

If you don't use force film (and I don't) you need either to encode at 29.97fps, which isn't recommended, or use Telecide and Decimate to IVTC down to 23.976fps.

SansGrip, thanks man
 

Thank you for your help... Now I am not familiar with the process you advise me to do, and I don't want to waste your time, so if you could please point me in the right direction where can I go and read more about it and learn how to do it, I will greatly appreciate it.

Also, wouldn't then be easier if I just check the force 24 or 23.xxx box on dvd2avi? Or are there any downsides to doing it? And also, are you for certain that it will fix anything and it's not just the Apex player that's having problems with 23fps?

thanks again,

Kristian :D

Hi Kristian,

Read here: http://www.inmatrix.com/articles/ivtcsynth1.shtml
Pay special attention to "Inverse Telecine"

-kwag

Thank you sooooo much guys!
 

:D :D :D
Words cannot describe my happiness!!! :lol: :lol:
It's working! Actually before I went to try all the other process, I went back to DVD2AVI and tried "Force Film" option, and then tried KWAGs best ever template of KVCDx3 MPEG 2 and the only changes I made were resolution to 544 x 480, and voila! It's working perfect! Amazing quality, I cannot believe it! I fit the movie Signs on one cdr (803MB) of near DVD quality, using VCDEasy burning it as a SVCD! Amazing! Plays perfect in both APEX AD-1500 and KOSS portable DVD player!

Thanks again guys, I just found the template I'll be using from here on...
Kwag, you are the best! :P

One last quick question
 

Is there anything negative about using DVD2AVI "Force Film"? Is there anything I should be aware of, or certain cases where it wouldn't work?
Thanks

Re: One last quick question
 

Yes. If the DVD contains pure interlaced material (i.e. 29.97fps non-telecined, usually from a video camera) you definitely shouldn't use force film. The most common problem, though, is so-called "hybrid" material, which is mainly 23.976 telecined but containing parts that are pure interlaced. The latter kind of material usually shows up during scenes with special effects or captions.

If you use force film on such hybrid material then most of it will look ok, but any part that was originally pure interlaced will have interlace artifacts in the resulting encode (they mostly show up as jagged vertical edges, especially during camera pans).

With such hybrid material the only way to ensure that everything is processed properly is to not use force film and do the inverse telecine with Telecide and Decimate from the Decomb package. Telecide does a very good job of detecting when the material switches from telecined to pure interlace and you end up with no interlace artifacts in the final encode.

If you have no idea what I'm talking about when I say "telecine" or "pure interlace" you should probably ask Dr Google -- there are some very good online guides giving an introduction to interlace issues.

Thanks SansGrip
 

Thanks SansGrip,

this is just a bit advanced for me... I've been reading on it, and I am a bit lost. Since I am more on a "user" level, I guess I will keep doing it with "Force Film" option until I encounter a problem, and then either learn how to do the whole process, or do a simple VCD... he he :lol:

Anyway, I appreciate all the useful information!

On a lighter note, I just did Spider Man, however, that 2 hour movie turned to 1,350MB... :lol: I guess I am still not clear if I could lower the CQ 60, or maybe learn how to use FitCD I guess.

Maybe Kwag can tell me if there is a simple rule I can follow that would help me, such as if movie > 100 min., use CQ50 for one cdr, if movie < 100 min. use CQ 60 for one CDR... :lol:

Anyway, I'll just split it and put it on two CDs, the quality is simply amazing, I can't complain.

Thanks again! :wink:

Re: Thanks SansGrip
 

Hi Godfather411,

Read a little on file size prediction here: http://www.kvcd.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2102 :wink:

-kwag

Hi Kwag, thanks
 

Thanks Kwag, that was very helpful, however, it seems like it takes time and few steps... I don't really care that much to take all that time for every movie... so my question is, is there any basic rules, that you guys could tell me so I don't get suprised with 2000MB file sizes... For instance, if the movie is less than 1 hour 30 min, use CQ 60, if the movie is less than 2 hours, use CQ 50, and if it's more than 2 hours, use CQ 40.. or something similar. I know that is not exact, but you get the drift. Or at least maybe you can tell me what is the minimum acceptable CQ level, and what is the maximum in your use. Or if you always use the same CQ 60, what is the minimum max rate you use, let's say 1500kbs and what is the max, let's say 2800... that will give me at least a general idea where to go. Its just less time consuming and work consuming to do it that way, at least for me. I understand that it's not easy to predict since every movie has a different number of total frames, and action scenes make a difference as well, but at least it will give me a general idea what is the max and min value I can use with that template, and still accomplish decent picture quality. I can alway trim the final size of the movie cutting the end credits, beginning bs and so on after the file is done, if I still need to trim a bit more....

thanks a lot :lol:

Okay folks! There is another cheat 8) for the APEX 1500 and 1000. When you encode the AVI file in TMPGENC, Choose 25fps and set the PAL 4:3 625 line "flag" for both the source and the output files.

APEX will play it with no problem and you do not need to switch to PAL. I have been using the 352x240 LBR template with very high Q settings and it allows about 120 min with 500 min bit and between 1800-2200 max.

Another trick is to extract the audio to MP2 with VirtualDub & BeSweet ~10min then encode ONLY the video (video only option) with TMPGEnc and merge them with the tools part of TMPGEnc ~10 min. REASON: I have found this combo encodes the Video at ~75% of the real run time. So, a 100 min movie should encode in about 75 min + 10-20min for audio work and merging and DONE!

If I remember correctly, TMPGEnc took about 2-3 hours to do the same.

One more question for Kwag
 

Kwag - Please let me know what are the lowest settings on your template x3... if you want to still have somewhat decent quality but fit about 2 hours... FitCD seems to be too complicated and time consuming, perhaps I could just guess if I knew what are the CQ minimum settings for that template. I understand they are different depending on the source and all, but from general experience, what have you seen them to be in 2 hr. movie... So far I'm having great success for about 90 min. with CQ65 just the way the template is posted. Could I go to CQ60? Or lower? So I can squeze another 30 min. in there? :D
Let me know,

thanks