Dual VHS recording in the 90s?

[dima]

1. When something was being recorded, was it only recorded on one cassette(at the same time) ?
1.1. Was it possible to record simultaneously on e.g. two cassettes ?

2. If only one cassette could record, then the whole assembly would be done later from this one cassette ?
2.1. How was the "more or less" assembly done in such a case ?
2.2. And the one cassette on which the material was originally recorded was the output cassette after assembly - the best quality ?
2.3. It was the only output cassette of such(best quality) whether there was the possibility of, for example, two or three ?
2.4. If only for one cassette there was the possibility of recording and it was the output, final cassette (after assembly), it was the best quality, and any copies were of worse quality because they were copied from this "original" version ? They didn't have the best possible quality image just like the cassette that was in the camera while filming(original) ?

I'm writing about e.g. the case of a recording cassette in SP mode(E180 or there about real even: 195).

[lordsmurf]

These questions are odd. What's the reason for the question?

In the 90s, the "Go.Video" brand had "dual decks", but the unit had horrible quality. The worst VHS that I have ever seen, literally, not exaggerating, came from Go.Video dual decks. Those were mostly to make ghastly VHS>VHS tape copies, and I'm unsure if both units could simultaneous record a source.

[dima]

Thank you for reply.

I'm asking, among others, because I would like to know the history of creating recordings, e.g. private ones.

So can you or someone else answer my questions that I asked in the first post of this thread ?
Yes, I know that I have "got an answer" to some issues, to some extent and in some way, but not to all of them probably.

[dpalomaki]

The questions confuse me also, so this may not be what you are seeking.

When making multiple VHS copies of a video stream, such as the output of a live camera, VCR, video mixer, or other source, the typical practice was to feed the source signal to a distribution amplifier that had multiple outputs. Those outputs were fed to a bank of individual (typically identical) recorders (VCRs), each recording one tape.

However, if you are speaking of original capture of video for later editing to a finished production, typically separate tapes were recorded for each source, and post production was accomplished with a liner editing suite comprised of two or more playback units as sources, a video mixer that in turn fed one (or more recorders). The record and playback machines and mixer were often controlled by an edit controller and the systems used time code from the original tapes to achieve near frame-accurate rdits for cuts, transitions, and effects.

The best quality was always the original recording. All analog video recording formats have generation loss, although the consumer formats (e.g., VHS, Video8, S-VHS, Hi8) were much worst than the professional formats. The generation loss was due to a combination of bandwidth (frequency response) limitations, especially for color information, and noise accumulation coupled with mechanical tolerances of the gear used.

[latreche34]

I wish I can answer your questions but I have no clue what the questions are. Post them in your native language and let's see if someone can translate them for you, I can help you with French and Arabic, I'm 90% fluent, I'm pretty sure we have members here who can speak other languages.

[Dude111]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lordsmurf

In the 90s, the "Go.Video" brand had "dual decks", but the unit had horrible quality. The worst VHS that I have ever seen, literally, not exaggerating, came from Go.Video dual decks. Those were mostly to make ghastly VHS>VHS tape copies, and I'm unsure if both units could simultaneous record a source....

Hmmmm I wonder if you had a bad unit buddy??

My GO VIDEO unit thankfully makes excellent copies..... I usually copy in MONO as I think the sound is nicer...... (More level)

[dpalomaki]

My GO VIDEO unit thankfully makes excellent copies..... I usually copy in MONO as I think the sound is nicer...... (More level)

Read more: http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&p=67170#ixzz6Fu nfpUWM

More level often just means more loudness - compressed audio that results in higher average recorded level and that limits the dynamic range. It was OK for old rock music on AM broadcast stations,voice narration, and other applications with a high noise floor (like in the car music), but not great for other "serious" music where dynamics and spacial imaging play an important part of the listening experience. IMO the mono (linear) VHS track was about on a par with AM broadcast audio quality, worse for EP recordings.

[latreche34]

In the early stages of video recording linear track was the only way to record audio on a magnetic tape, When Hi-Fi stereo came along with VHS and some other cassette systems the crappy quality linear audio was kept for compatibility purposes only with older materials as well as cheap camcorders that recorded only on mono linear track.

[dima]

Quote:

Originally Posted by dpalomaki

The questions confuse me also, so this may not be what you are seeking.

When making multiple VHS copies of a video stream, such as the output of a live camera, VCR, video mixer, or other source, the typical practice was to feed the source signal to a distribution amplifier that had multiple outputs. Those outputs were fed to a bank of individual (typically identical) recorders (VCRs), each recording one tape.

However, if you are speaking of original capture of video for later editing to a finished production, typically separate tapes were recorded for each source, and post production was accomplished with a liner editing suite comprised of two or more playback units as sources, a video mixer that in turn fed one (or more recorders). The record and playback machines and mixer were often controlled by an edit controller and the systems used time code from the original tapes to achieve near frame-accurate rdits for cuts, transitions, and effects.

The best quality was always the original recording. All analog video recording formats have generation loss, although the consumer formats (e.g., VHS, Video8, S-VHS, Hi8) were much worst than the professional formats. The generation loss was due to a combination of bandwidth (frequency response) limitations, especially for color information, and noise accumulation coupled with mechanical tolerances of the gear used.

Thank you for your response.

I'm referring to such a case(together with information recorded in my first post of this thread) that someone e.g. recorded somebody's private ceremony, but at the same time was a professional in recording via VHS(editing, adding music etc.), and finally the material recorded be available not only in one copy.

I know that it was possible to make many copies of this original material(after editing) for other cassettes, but with a loss of quality(directly through VCRs - from one VCR in which there was a cassette with recorded material for an "empty cassette" located in the other VCR.)*.

Was it possible to have multiple copies of this VHS material(after editing, cutting, adding music, etc.) without losing quality - with the same quality as the "original" copy after editing(with music, etc.) ?
[Because probably adding music or rather precise cuts while/during recording VHS material by camera were not possible ?:].

* Was it possible that the cassette after assembly(editing) was of the same quality as the cassette before assembly(editing)("original" - from the camera directly recording the material on it) or if there had to be lower quality ?

[dpalomaki]

Quote:

Was it possible that the cassette after assembly(editing) was of the same quality as the cassette before assembly(editing)("original" - from the camera directly recording the material on it) or if there had to be lower quality ?

Read more: http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/home...#ixzz6G0cUKGCQ

With the consumer analog formats it was not possible to have the same quality on an analog copy. With the professional (i.e., broadcast) formats it was possible to have a copy that was very close to the original.

Think about the process.
The desired video is copied with no gain (it tries to be a 1:1 copy).
But amplifiers all have some distortion so that is added.
And the noise floor in the recording system is added to the noise already in the original.
Assuming similar response systems: fine detail frequencies that were perhaps 6 dB down in the original will be 12 dB down in the copy. E.g., distinct black and white lines/edges in the original may gradually turn to a gray mush with successive analog copies.

Back in the day most event videographers moved to S-VHS and/or Hi8 for acquisition and editing as soon as they could to help minimize this generation loss, and then abandon these formats for DV when it came out.

Digital video recordings can be assemble edited (cuts only) and copied without loss. (Transitions and effects involve decoding/recoding and will involve some loss)

A way to minimize loss from analog tape original material is to capture it to a lossless digital format, perform all edits on the digital copy using quality editing software, and then encode the final video to a quality digital distribution format.

[latreche34]

Like it was mentioned above why make VHS copies? just digitize in lossless, edit and make mp4 copies, a lot easier.

[dima]

Only that I don't mean capture - conversion from analog to digital, because I know how to do it and how it works. I don't want to make(at least currently) analog copies from a VHS cassette with some recording to another VHS cassette.

I'm asking because I want to know historically how the whole process looked like, possibilities of this system etc.
For example, having a cassette in my hand with sample content that I mentioned in my previous posts in this thread, I would like to know if there is another exactly the same quality VHS cassette with the same content or there is nothing to count on.
I don't know exactly what the whole process looked like and its possibilities, that's why I ask.

S-VHS, Hi8, DV - I know about it, but in the cases I think about and know, I meet with them - they have no reason. The more that I'm talking about professionals, but not from large, serious, urban companies, but about small, often "rural or small town players" - not in the USA...: D And also about private recordings, small and by private persons(but at the same time knowing what to do and being familiar with the profession such as professional editing). So in the cases I write about, it was probably only and in the vast majority: VHS.

[latreche34]

I don't quite understand the translation to English texts that you are posting but back in the day professional formats such as U-matic, Betacam and some digital pro formats in the late days of VHS are used as masters for duplication, Some small firms used VHS masters.