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-   -   For sale: JVC S-VHS VCRs with line TBC (https://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/marketplace/7910-sale-jvc-vhs.html)

lordsmurf 03-29-2017 01:25 AM

For sale: JVC S-VHS VCRs with line TBC
 
Updated March 2026

Available:
- refurb'd JVC S-VHS MV (V10-based), with line TBC, A graded, $1750 -- SOLD!
- refurb'd JVC S-VHS MV (V10-based), with line TBC, A graded, $1750 -- last one

^ These are my final two VCRs. No plans to refurbish more. :rip:


VCRs currently only available in workflows.
For available workflows, click https://www.digitalFAQ.com/forum/mar...-workflow.html


________

Notes: (ARCHIVED INFO)

- All VCRs are in B+ to A+ condition.
- See http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/news...g-grading.html
- Many act/function like-new, with low hours.
- Many appear new, or like new.

** Realize that A+ grading is getting difficult now. A++ is a unicorn, while A+ is a Pegasus. Now, in the 2020s, most decks settle into A- or B+ at best. A-/B+ is horses. Grades are mix of deck condition, and my efforts to tweak it there (and I give it my all).

All of these decks play SP perfectly, as expected from a JVC. The LP and EP/SLP depends on the tape, but many/most will be fine. I specifically test each VCR to find out how it will perform on EP/SLP, and realign as needed, for the best possible overall EP/SLP performance.

I also want to add this: Some of the Professional SR models are behaving even better than Panasonic S-VHS decks on EP/SLP mode tapes! Yes, including the legendary AG-1980P! So if you're planning to do SP, or EP, or both, let me know. I'll give you the deck most ideal for the task at hand. (Also, please, don't ask for SP+EP "just in case". If your tapes are all SP or EP, a deck that is tuned to that mode will act best. I want you to get what's best!)

* Note that JVC VCRs may not be the best choice if you have lots of linear audio videotapes, which is unusual.

FYI: For those wondering how I created a "suggested VCR list", it's because I bought, owned, and used most of the listed decks. And these are those decks.

For some strange reason, starting back in 2021/22 (and then stopping again in mid 2023), I started getting requests for "pictures", as if that tells you anything about these units. While the cosmetics on all my items is usually excellent, sometimes like-new, it's the performance that matters. No mere photo can show that. You can already use Google to find photos of what these units look like, if you're curious. In the few instances where images are not readily available, all a photo would tell you is "Wow, a boring VCR!" It's a waste of my time to take photos, and a waste of yours to view them. So I don't do "pictures". I'm not some Facebook/etc random person.

If you want a high-end VCR (JVC) in known-good condition, inspected and tested by somebody that has 25+ years in VHS (either as serious hobbyists or professionally), then get one before they're all gone.


________


0 @ refurb'd JVC S-VHS with line TBC, A+ graded, $0

In past months, I've tested and re-tested each of these. Several have been refurbished to like-new condition, and others are still as perfect now as the day I bought them. I've properly cleaned each deck, and realigned it if needed.

- JVC HR-S7500/7600/7800/7900 with line TBC - all gone!
- JVC HR-S9500/9600/9800/9900/9911 with line TBC - all gone!
- JVC SR-V10/V101/VS20/VS30 with line TBC - all gone!
- JVC SR-MV40/45/50/55 with line TBC + LSI-based DVD recorder combo - all gone!
- JVC D-VHS with line TBC - all gone!
- JVC HR-S3800/5902 without line TBC - all gone!
- Panasonic AG-1970/1980P with field TBC - all gone!


VCRs are only available now in workflows.
See workflow listings here: https://www.digitalFAQ.com/forum/mar...-workflow.html
I'm taking a much-needed break from most JVC S-VHS VCR refurb work, to focus on health, family, and the upgrade of this site. Refurb'ing a VCR can take weeks, sometimes even months for some deck models. I need that time for other tasks and activities. I will still (sometimes) have decks available, but only as part of my workflows.


PM about current unit available.
Stock is limited.
Price range $1150 to $2000, depending on model and condition.
All are recommended JVC S-VHS VCR with line TBC.


Sometimes I have decks on hand, sometimes not. PM me.
When not, I do on-demand deck refurbs. Typical ETA for on-demand refurb work can be anywhere from 3-6 weeks. The time needed to complete a refurb depends on several factors.
Pricing:
- JVC SR-V10/based, A+, $xxxx, refurb'd like new
- JVC SR-V10/based, A-, approx $xxxx, refurb'd like new
- JVC SR-V10/based, B+, approx $xxx, refurb'd like new, works best with SP mode tapes, can be hit-or-miss with EP/SLP
Clarification: Yes, this includes the deck. You're not submitting a VCR for service. ;)
And no, I no longer repair decks for others. I only service (refurb) the decks I sell here in the marketplace.



lordsmurf 04-09-2017 01:07 PM

5 gone.
10 still available.

Including:
- HR-S9800 for $425 (last one!)
- SR-V10 for $225 (only two left!) -- nice EP mode tracking on these!

I have a few more in temp-controlled storage, and need to re-test them.

In addition, I have two problem units: an SR-V10 and a SR-V101 that I may sell for cheap. $50-75 range.
Contact me if interested in those.

lordsmurf 05-27-2017 01:33 AM

Most of that last batch of VCRs has now been sold. Finally had time to test some more of the units, as well as repair/refurb a few that didn't meet my quality standards at first. These can now be sold. Everything available here works and looks quite decent, most are like-new.

Only 12 decks now left.
Only 9 decks now left. :eek:

The JVC HR-S9800U is probably the prize of the litter, and it will be $425. All others are at or near $300. < Gone!

_________________________________

Note:

Everything I'm selling has been tested thoroughly. Everything from transport stability/alignment to TBC performance to other odd quirks that can happen on JVC VCRs (chroma offset, etc). I feed it a battery of test tapes, each with special quirks that can show if the VCR has a weakness or problem.

If you want to try eBay for a $225-range unit, good luck to you. Several of my recent buyers already played that game of Russian roulette and lost. Out of every 10 VCRs you see on that site, half of those are "untested" or "powers on", which is a weasel term for "broken". The other 5 claim "tested", but at least 3 of 5 are actually scammers (insurance fraud) or idiots (ie, any image in any condition is "tested"), and the units do not actually work. So you have a 20% chance, at best, of getting a good unit. Maybe.

There's also a catch, and the catch is this: To test a unit, you need skills that you probably don't have. Do you? Probably not.

lordsmurf 06-14-2017 09:18 PM

Updated. More now gone.

KarinHougaard 09-27-2017 05:11 PM

Dear LordSmurf, should you come across a decent PAL VCR which will not break the piggy bank I would be very interested. Currently using a HITACHI M328 encoding to VIDBOX (Mac) and having major sync issues with audio. As you might gather I'm new at this. Read on your forum that I should probably start with a better VCR. So here's to hoping! Thanks Karin

BarryTheCrab 09-28-2017 05:34 PM

May I ask, what is "Professional SRs - only 6 left!"

lordsmurf 10-03-2017 08:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KarinHougaard (Post 51039)
Dear LordSmurf, should you come across a decent PAL VCR

I won't be parting with either of my PAL decks, just the NTSC VCRs. However, most of my TBCs and capture cards work perfectly with PAL, and some of those are for sale. A proper basic workflow is a good VCR, good TBC, and good capture card. I could get you 2/3rds there, and help you locate a VCR.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BarryTheCrab (Post 51059)
May I ask, what is "Professional SRs - only 6 left!"

PM me if you have specific questions. :wink2:

lordsmurf 12-24-2017 01:52 AM

Now down to just a few JVC SR-line Pro S-VHS decks! :eek:

Don't miss out.

lordsmurf 03-14-2018 01:08 PM

And then there were two... :nixon:

lordsmurf 05-28-2018 04:19 PM

Added my SR-V101 to the sale, decided to just keep one. Also a couple of others left.

lordsmurf 06-22-2018 08:00 AM

More updates, more gone.

In related news, some of my last repair and refurb work has finally has some successes. I'll be listing a PAL workflow in the near future: VCR, TBC, ES10, capture card. All for PAL.

lordsmurf 08-01-2018 06:55 AM

Updated, bump. The VCR herd is thinning.

lordsmurf 11-10-2018 11:01 AM

Updated again.

ridzoman 01-01-2019 06:26 PM

Are any of these s-vhs units still available. I'm looking to digitize some old tapes and could use a deck (and advice),... so please, advise :)

lordsmurf 01-01-2019 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ridzoman (Post 58230)
Are any of these s-vhs units still available. I'm looking to digitize some old tapes and could use a deck (and advice),... so please, advise :)

I have two VCRs left. I'll PM you. :)

Olinbr 01-08-2019 10:32 PM

Do you still have those last 2 left? I am a complete newb on this but I wrote software for 35 years so I reckon I can learn something new. Research led me to you anyhow. Of course as a newb I tried 4 useless vcr's I had lying around the house and bought one of those useless cheapass usb capture dongles. My sister has a panasonic pv-d4744s I was about to go get when I decided I better do a little research first. The only items I have that "may" be useful are my laptop with a firewire card and a Panasonic PV-GS300 camera I was looking to use as a pass through device.

My elderly mother had an old Panasonic pv-4200 that she used to record road trips, her grand kids etc and that is primarily where the source tapes come from. If you could give me some advice on where to start and whether my pass through solution will work or not I'd really really appreciate it.

Thanks....

lordsmurf 01-08-2019 11:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Olinbr (Post 58446)
Do you still have those last 2 left? I am a complete newb on this but I wrote software for 35 years so I reckon I can learn something new. Research led me to you anyhow. Of course as a newb I tried 4 useless vcr's I had lying around the house and bought one of those useless cheapass usb capture dongles. My sister has a panasonic pv-d4744s I was about to go get when I decided I better do a little research first. The only items I have that "may" be useful are my laptop with a firewire card and a Panasonic PV-GS300 camera I was looking to use as a pass through device.

My elderly mother had an old Panasonic pv-4200 that she used to record road trips, her grand kids etc and that is primarily where the source tapes come from. If you could give me some advice on where to start and whether my pass through solution will work or not I'd really really appreciate it.

Thanks....

For the moment, all of my extra decks are gone. :rats:

However, I do have some could-be-excellent-again decks I tinker with in my spare time. Nothing major, just in need of attention, not a broken junk deck. If I know that somebody wants a good deck, and wants to pay what it's worth ($250 to $525 range, varies by model), I can tinker faster, with a paid deposit. Just PM me.

I also have some connections/leads on good equipment, including some members here that don't list on the marketplace.

A better VCR is highly suggested, a model with built-in line TBC.

In terms of passthrough, at the very least, you'll need a Panasonic DMR-ES10 or DMR-15 -- something else I'm now out of, though you can find units on eBay (though be wary of anything under $75, with better condition decks in the $100-125 range, at least at this very moment). It's used as a processing box only, bad signal in, good signal out, not a DVD recorder. That's a minimal TBC(ish), though you may find yourself needing to stack with an external framesync TBC.

What you propose with the PV-GS300 is DV compressed transfer, and it loses 50% of the color data. It works, but it's not great quality-wise. Even high-bitrate MPEG looks better, and lossless lossless is much better. Better capture cards are available, and for under $100.

Answer everything for you? :)

Olinbr 01-09-2019 12:51 AM

Oh well.

BTW, I just found a TV Wonder 650 PCI card (109-a69834-11) in my room of computer parts. It must have come in a system I picked up because I have never used a TV card before. I saw on here where people mentioned a TV card as part of their solution. And I have practically every cable ever made and access to practically all software ever written. I presume it is old and won't work but maybe....

A few years ago when the Atlanta office of the company I worked for closed (40 people worked there) only 3 developers were kept on. Main office told me and my 2 coworkers to go get whatever we needed to work from home. we cleaned it out. I wound up with a really nice color laserjet printer, 9 computers of varying capabilities, (2 of them were xeon servers) a cherry wood bookcase, cherry desk, 3 office chairs, parts and cables too numerous to name which is the reason I have a parts "room" :) - so if there is an obscure part I need I may very well have it.

I am not working at the moment but I'm not broke either. If I could pick up a decent VCR at the lower end of the price range, say 250, 300 or so I would do it. I can also check with my Mom and see if she could help with the costs which I will do in the morning.

I am no longer interested in the PV-GS300 pass through idea as losing 50% of anything sorta defeats the purpose.

Thanks for the quick reply. I will get back to you tomorrow after I speak with my mom.

crissrudd4554 02-11-2019 01:49 PM

Do you know of anyone else who has anything available?? Preferably something in the $200-$400 range.

lordsmurf 02-11-2019 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crissrudd4554 (Post 59322)
Do you know of anyone else who has anything available?? Preferably something in the $200-$400 range.

Yes, PM me. :)

lordsmurf 04-09-2019 03:59 AM

A couple posts back, I mentioned having some leads on good decks. Well, a lead paid off. :)

Earlier this year, I acquired a stash of nice SR-MV45 units. It was hard to turn down, the decks really were nice, not your average eBay/Craigslist junk. I know members here are always seeking quality decks, so I grabbed all them for us. However, even being nice decks, I saw these could be better. After a quite a bit of time and expenses, I refurbished several of the decks to minty like-new condition, and those are now starting to become available.

(Worth mentioning: Several perform/function below my expectations, and those are parts fodder if/when needed. Good parts, not eBay junk decks "for parts".)

Back in December, I honestly thought I was done with VCRs. :2cents:

So if you want a good deck, get it while I got it!

lordsmurf 05-25-2019 04:32 AM

Added some decks, including another A+ 7800! :)

Quadgirl 06-04-2019 10:32 AM

Hi, Lordsmurf! On my other forums, when there is a smurf, that is always the go-to gal or guy! Funny, but true. Anyway, I have been reading here for a bit and I would be interested in your jvc 7900. Is it in great working condition? I stupidly sold my jvc, I believe it was the 9600 or 9900, a few years ago and now ant it back. I understand from your ratings that this one is a good one. Please let me know if it is available. I first want to use it to watch home videos made on the compact cassette (I still have my adapter thing) and then will watch movies. I do not need to record excessively, but would like that as a future option. If you suggest a different deck, please advise. Thanks so much!
Laura (guadgirl)

lordsmurf 08-05-2019 03:33 AM

Updated the list. :2cents:

All of my nicest A+ and A++ decks are now gone. But I still have some A-/A+ available (not quite A-, not quite A+). If you've been on the fence, now would be a good time to act. This may be the last year I sell VCRs, still undecided. What that means is this: what I have available now is the end of my small stash of decks. So if you want a known-good VCR, now is the time to get it. Aug/Sept, try not to wait until Oct-Dec.

lordsmurf 01-12-2020 02:36 AM

Very few decks are now remaining. :2cents:

This past fall, after the above update, I did manage to refurb a pair of SR-V10U decks into astonishing A+ condition, surpassing my expectations of the refurbs. Shot for B+/A-, got A+ instead. Nice! But that took months of work, and I will not be repeating that. Ground-up VCR rebuilds take a lot of time, more than I want to invest this year.

nicholasserra 03-11-2020 07:18 PM

Would be interested in a 9000 series if/when you come across a good one. Would also love for a write up on refurbishing these things. I think that would be a worthwhile guide on this site.

lordsmurf 05-17-2020 10:37 PM

I have 3 final decks available.
And at the moment, I have no plans to refurb any more VCRs for the foreseeable future.

lordsmurf 10-19-2020 05:06 AM

I have two decks again. And I'm not sure if I'll be doing others this winter.

Getting good decks is getting much harder AND more costly. It's insane when an eBay "parts only" (fully fubar) deck is $200+, and a "tested"/"works" (which is neither tested nor working) deck is $300+. My offline sources are drying up, online sources limited. I refuse to buy from eBay, where the question of "what's wrong with it, exactly" (ie, to see if it can be repaired, or even still has good parts inside) is "duh".

When I had a deck available, my suggestion is to get it while I got it! ;)
Or better yet, a whole workflow.

FlowMyTears 11-04-2020 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lordsmurf (Post 72200)
I have two decks again. And I'm not sure if I'll be doing others this winter.

Getting good decks is getting much harder AND more costly. It's insane when an eBay "parts only" (fully fubar) deck is $200+, and a "tested"/"works" (which is neither tested nor working) deck is $300+. My offline sources are drying up, online sources limited. I refuse to buy from eBay, where the question of "what's wrong with it, exactly" (ie, to see if it can be repaired, or even still has good parts inside) is "duh".

When I had a deck available, my suggestion is to get it while I got it! ;)
Or better yet, a whole workflow.

What is the deck in question?

lordsmurf 11-04-2020 10:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlowMyTears (Post 72537)
What is the deck in question?

JVC S-VHS models with line TBC.

How many tapes?
What recording mode are your VHS tapes?
- SP, LP, EP/SLP, or a mix? If mix, % of each?
- If not known, guestimate. (What you don't want to do is put these tapes in a ratty old VCR, and have the tapes get damaged.)

FlowMyTears 11-04-2020 10:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lordsmurf (Post 72542)
JVC S-VHS models with line TBC.

How many tapes?
What recording mode are your VHS tapes?
- SP, LP, EP/SLP, or a mix? If mix, % of each?
- If not known, guestimate. (What you don't want to do is put these tapes in a ratty old VCR, and have the tapes get damaged.)

I've been looking for a JVC with TBC but have been striking out as far as finding one that is in good shape or in a condition that I feel confident in my ability to fix. I am also a younger single, college student living alone so I don't have the large amounts of cash that others do which puts me at a disadvantage as far as something like eBay goes.

I have nearly 100 blank tapes and have more readily available if/when I have the room or interest for them.
Quality is generally unknown but the contents are primarily old TV broadcasts e.g. cartoons, sitcoms, news, etc.

lordsmurf 11-04-2020 11:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlowMyTears (Post 72547)
I've been looking for a JVC with TBC but have been striking out as far as finding one that is in good shape or in a condition that I feel confident in my ability to fix. I am also a younger single, college student living alone so I don't have the large amounts of cash that others do which puts me at a disadvantage as far as something like eBay goes.

I have nearly 100 blank tapes and have more readily available if/when I have the room or interest for them.
Quality is generally unknown but the contents are primarily old TV broadcasts e.g. cartoons, sitcoms, news, etc.

That's a lot of tapes. You don't want to skimp on the VCR, for multiple reasons: reduced quality, eat tapes, decks failure, etc.

eBay isn't buying, it's gambling. All those "tested" and "working" decks rarely are actually tested or working correctly, as sold by video know-nothings. They see lights, it works! They see any quality picture, it's tested! There is a huge difference between what I do, and what an eBay seller does (which is almost always nothing). Same goes for Deter and TGrant and VCRshop/Branko, and a few others.

All hobbies have costs. When I started the video hobby seriously almost 30 years ago, I barely had two nickels to rub together, those were lean times. But it's something I really wanted to do, so saved, and that's where my funds went. I still have my first S-VHS deck from the mid 90s, still remember buying it at Circuit City in the ritzy part of the metro (only store that had one local for sale), and it wasn't cheap.

As a cartoon/TV hobbyist, I have to ask ... what shows? :) (PM me, let's not OT this thread any more)

Kaos-Industries 12-21-2020 02:28 PM

What's the cheapest reliable VCR you'd recommend with a TBC?

latreche34 12-21-2020 03:19 PM

What tape standard? PAL, NTSC, SECAM ...? Pretty much any S-VHS VCR with line TBC is already decent, I don't remember if VHS ever has a TBC with the exception of some DVD combo's that had component and/or HDMI for the VCR section. Such machines are in the range of $500 plus and you're lucky if it doesn't have any problems.

On the cheap try a combo like I mentioned above, even those are getting expensive since demand is rising for them.

lordsmurf 12-21-2020 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaos-Industries (Post 73504)
What's the cheapest reliable VCR you'd recommend with a TBC?

As prices get cheaper, understand that it means that condition is degraded some from optimal -- and that means it may not play slower speeds (EP/SLP, LP) well or at all.

This is why I grade decks: http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/news...g-grading.html

And these are the models suggested: http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/vide...ing-guide.html

JVC is far less costly to maintain that Panasonic.

Beater VCRs that may not work at all are in the $200-400 range on eBay. It's not suggested. You're more like to get screwd by a bad deal that not -- especially when you don't really know anything about the VCRs. eBay is truly a VCR dumping ground.

Quote:

Originally Posted by latreche34 (Post 73509)
What tape standard? PAL, NTSC, SECAM ...?

That really doesn't matter as much. Valuations are in the same ranges.

The only thing that's more true (currently, and wasn't always the case!) is that PAL decks tend to be a bit easier to locate within Europe, but that's about it.

Quote:

Pretty much any S-VHS VCR with line TBC is already decent
Not accurate. There are many undesirable models, such as "medical VTRs". That's why I created the suggested list. Being S-VHS, and line TBC being present, isn't the only consideration to finding a good deck.

Remember: This is a marketplace listing, not a general discussion topic. :wink2:

latreche34 12-21-2020 05:03 PM

He wants model recommendation so the standard has to be known.

Kaos-Industries 12-21-2020 05:32 PM

Quote:

What tape standard? PAL, NTSC, SECAM ...? Pretty much any S-VHS VCR with line TBC is already decent, I don't remember if VHS ever has a TBC with the exception of some DVD combo's that had component and/or HDMI for the VCR section. Such machines are in the range of $500 plus and you're lucky if it doesn't have any problems.
I'm looking for a PAL S-VHS model with TBC.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lordsmurf (Post 73513)
As prices get cheaper, understand that it means that condition is degraded some from optimal -- and that means it may not play slower speeds (EP/SLP, LP) well or at all.

This is why I grade decks: http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/news...g-grading.html

And these are the models suggested: http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/vide...ing-guide.html

JVC is far less costly to maintain that Panasonic.

Beater VCRs that may not work at all are in the $200-400 range on eBay. It's not suggested. You're more like to get screwd by a bad deal that not -- especially when you don't really know anything about the VCRs. eBay is truly a VCR dumping ground.


That really doesn't matter as much. Valuations are in the same ranges.

The only thing that's more true (currently, and wasn't always the case!) is that PAL decks tend to be a bit easier to locate within Europe, but that's about it.


Not accurate. There are many undesirable models, such as "medical VTRs". That's why I created the suggested list. Being S-VHS, and line TBC being present, isn't the only consideration to finding a good deck.

Remember: This is a marketplace listing, not a general discussion topic. :wink2:

In the buying guide it lists a handful of PAL JVC models. Is this intended to be an exhaustive list of all the JVC models considered reliable? And if so, do those all come with TBCs?

Also I'm a bit confused about the VCR's TBC along with an ES15 - if I was using an ES10/15 as passthru would I still have the VCR TBC enabled? Only I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that it's best to disable the VCR's TBC if using an ES10/ES15 as passthru, and if that's the case and I'll be disabling it anyway then it obviously wouldn't be worth me investing in a VCR unit with TBC in the first place, so I wanted to clarify that.

lordsmurf 12-21-2020 06:04 PM

Quote:

Also I'm a bit confused about the VCR's TBC along with an ES15 - if I was using an ES10/15 as passthru would I still have the VCR TBC enabled? Only I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that it's best to disable the VCR's TBC if using an ES10/ES15 as passthru, and if that's the case and I'll be disabling it anyway then it obviously wouldn't be worth me investing in a VCR unit with TBC in the first place, so I wanted to clarify that.
The first TBC takes ownership of the signal, and no further downline TBCs have any effect.
DO NOT MISUNDERSTAND THIS!
It refers to like TBC, ie line>line, or frame>frame, and NOT line>frame

So JVC line TBC > ES10/15 line TBC means the ES10/15 does nothing if JVC TBC is on. 100% inert.

The ES10/15 is a crippled line TBC (arguably not a TBC at all, because of it), and is not a TBC itself (obviously, it's a DVD recorder). With the standard DVD recorder weak frame sync. The original intended use by Panasonic was to make homemade tapes look less bad from a low end VCR. But I discovered that it worked on passthrough (signal passes in, processed, processed signal passed out) back in 2005 immediately later the unit came out. And the main usefulness was the strong line nature to correct anti-tearing. The ES10/15 adds noise/artifacts, and is not transparent. Therefore it was suggested to be used "as needed", for tearing only. Not as a TBC replacement, because it doesn't truly have that ability.

The tearing workflow is:
JVC S-VHS VCR (TBC off) > ES10/15 for anti-tearing > DataVideo/Cypress frame TBC > quality SD capture card

The reason anybody even know about the ES10 is because of my early findings. At the time, I was known for doing in-depth DVD recorder reviews, down to the chipsets. Somebody else saw the ES15 had it (and it does). But then claims were made about other models, all of them false (for NTSC) and valid only for with-HDD PAL variations using the same chipsets. Some Sony and Toshiba have some weaker performance as well, but it's not the same. So there's the myth out there that DVD recorders act as a TBC.

The ES10/15 alone is minimalist, weak, has a larger fail rate acting as TBC. To fortify it closer to an actual TBC, it needs the DataVideo DVK afterwards, which has an actual frame TBC (though weaker than normal).

The reason for the better VCR is not just TBC.

TBC is just part of it. Transport, mechanics, history, etc -- those matter too.

(History, you ask? Expensive decks were far less likely to be around kids and pets, and more likely in a serious hobby or business setting. That can matter. The offset is how worn it may be from business use. And how well both business and hobby maintained it, but maintenance is a general worry for all VCRs.)

Kaos-Industries 12-21-2020 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lordsmurf (Post 73522)
The first TBC takes ownership of the signal, and no further downline TBCs have any effect.
DO NOT MISUNDERSTAND THIS!
It refers to like TBC, ie line>line, or frame>frame, and NOT line>frame

So JVC line TBC > ES10/15 line TBC means the ES10/15 does nothing if JVC TBC is on. 100% inert.

The ES10/15 is a crippled line TBC (arguably not a TBC at all, because of it), and is not a TBC itself (obviously, it's a DVD recorder). With the standard DVD recorder weak frame sync. The original intended use by Panasonic was to make homemade tapes look less bad from a low end VCR. But I discovered that it worked on passthrough (signal passes in, processed, processed signal passed out) back in 2005 immediately later the unit came out. And the main usefulness was the strong line nature to correct anti-tearing. The ES10/15 adds noise/artifacts, and is not transparent. Therefore it was suggested to be used "as needed", for tearing only. Not as a TBC replacement, because it doesn't truly have that ability.

The tearing workflow is:
JVC S-VHS VCR (TBC off) > ES10/15 for anti-tearing > DataVideo/Cypress frame TBC > quality SD capture card

The reason anybody even know about the ES10 is because of my early findings. At the time, I was known for doing in-depth DVD recorder reviews, down to the chipsets. Somebody else saw the ES15 had it (and it does). But then claims were made about other models, all of them false (for NTSC) and valid only for with-HDD PAL variations using the same chipsets. Some Sony and Toshiba have some weaker performance as well, but it's not the same. So there's the myth out there that DVD recorders act as a TBC.

The ES10/15 alone is minimalist, weak, has a larger fail rate acting as TBC. To fortify it closer to an actual TBC, it needs the DataVideo DVK afterwards, which has an actual frame TBC (though weaker than normal).

The reason for the better VCR is not just TBC.

TBC is just part of it. Transport, mechanics, history, etc -- those matter too.

(History, you ask? Expensive decks were far less likely to be around kids and pets, and more likely in a serious hobby or business setting. That can matter. The offset is how worn it may be from business use. And how well both business and hobby maintained it, but maintenance is a general worry for all VCRs.)

So then if I'm understanding you correctly, I can afford to get a JVC S-VHS VCR without TBC because it won't be used anyway in a chain that involves an ES15 as a makeshift TBC, and that other factors like condition matter more.

latreche34 12-21-2020 10:57 PM

It's not that simple, some tapes behave different than others, It's an analog technology and there is no specific rules govern it, Mostly it's trial and error unfortunately due to different tape formulation, different recording hardware, different VCR processing ...etc.

And to be honest a DVD recorder will never replace a line TBC inside a VCR for a simple reason, The VCR reads the raw RF signal coming out fresh from the video heads and knows exactly where each scan line starts and ends. While in a non line TBC VCR, by the time the signal has been processed by the VCR circuitry and gets thru to the DVD recorder a lot of things can go wrong plus the added noise so the DVD recorder circuit can no longer knows where each scan line exactly starts in terms of true signal vs noise, It can however correct tearing and flagging because the line position is so drifted that it can obviously detects it.

I've never used a DVD recorder and never will, but I do this as hobby not as a need or necessity.


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