Yes, there are some differences in ATI AIW.
- USB is fine, one Theatre model exists
- earlier PCI and 128/Pro AGP don't really work well with XP, only Win98, so best avoided
- 7500 PCI is fine, but rare
- 7500 AGP and p ios fine
- 9000/9600/9800 often fine, but watch for interference, poor shielding on components

The ATI 600 USB is not ATI 600 PCU. The PCI is bad, USB good.
The USB is not the same as AIW, not as good.

As years go by, with me, "lack of information" is diminishing. I've tested so many cards now. Lots of DVD recorders, TBCs, proc amps, etc. Lots of good devices exist, but even more bad ones do. Some are just ho-hum, not great, not terrible.

I don't sell anything that isn't excellent, not what I'm about. :2cents:

You mean that USB = ATI 600 USB, and AIW = ATI AIW USB ?
Can someone show me a picture of what ATI AIW USB looks like because I can't see it on the internet(possibly a link to some photo) ?

I think that these two USB cards(ATI) are probably not young and probably since the time of their market entry appeared newer USB cards - none of these newer USB cards is not as good in terms of the quality of the captured image(from VHS to digital file) as these two USB sticks from ATI ?

essentially yes

The ATI 600 USB is not a true AIW, it is based on a Texas Instrument chip

The ATI AIW USB is a true AIW, it is based on an ATI Technologies Inc. chip

--

The ATI Technologies Inc. "Theater 200" chip had a very long run, it was "over designed" using a 12 bit DAC for video capture rather than the more common 8 bit DAC.

correct

The newer USB capture devices used a lower resolution 8 bit DAC or 10 bit DAC and had other flaws.

In a few words, newer USB capture chips were "pickier" and "less tolerant" of older and poorer signal quality and did a "far inferior" job of capture when they did work.

New is often "not" better.. it depends on the overall context.

--

The ATI 600 USB is not based on the ATI Theater 200 chip, it is based on a TI chip.

But it had a 9 bit DAC, not as good as a 12 bit DAC, but not as bad as an 8 bit DAC.

It was more tolerant of poor signal quality without triggering a Macrovision detection event.

The ATI 600 USB could also be used on later Windows operating systems, where the ATI AIW USB could only be used on XP.

And it came much later than older ATI AIW USB which meant to some degree it was easier to find.

Also while the ATI AIW USB was a larger "box" with a separate power supply brick. The ATI 600 USB was USB port powered and did not have a separate power supply. So for laptop owners the ATI 600 USB was somewhat preferred.

But

The ATI AIW had its video connectors solidly built into the side of the box and did not need a separate dongle cable like the ATI 600 USB, which could get lost or bent and destroyed.

For all these trade-off reasons when people had a choice they might choose one over the other. These days they tend to simply find one, and if they can, later find the other.

--

In my "opinion" the ATI AIW USB is the far superior capture box, but you have to use it with XP.

It does not have to be used with a motherboard with an AGP slot, and I think having the solid video connectors on the box is better. And the power supply is external to the box, so it can be replaced with little to no effort.

But you cannot use it with Windows 10.

[note: heat can be an issue with capture devices, I bought a usb powered fan from AC Infinity and plant the capture device on top of that. It blows air across the underside and keeps the device cool. You can find them on Amazon.]

(ATI 600 USB) ATI/AMD TV Wonder HD 600 USB

tvp5150

(ATI AIW USB) ATI TV Wonder USB 2.0

theater 200

theater 200 pdf

Thank you so much for your help.
Will I find somewhere a comparison of the quality of the captured image(the same picture frames, or the same fragment of the movie) from the VHS tape to a digital file between the ATI 600 USB vs ATI AIW USB ? [Changing only converters, all settings and connections leaving unchanged.] For PAL system.
I've heard that ATI AIW USB is supposed to be a bit better than ATI 600 USB when it comes to converting colors or something like that.

A forum poster just asked for the same thing in the Capture section for PAL:

> Canopus ADVC(110, 300) vs ATI AIW USB(and/or ATI 600 USB) [COMPARISON]

A thread poster then responded with several clips of a very good test pattern for each device.

The ATI AIW USB is called the ATI Wonder USB in the samples, do keep in mind the original posters question while reading those comments. The reason for requesting the samples was they wanted to compare a DV "compressed" capture device with a USB "uncompressed" capture device. Most of the discussion focuses on DV versus everything else. I would caution it looks like the Gamma on the sample for the ATI Wonder USB is boosted for some reason, tweaking it on playback reveals all of the dynamic range is present.

Of all the samples, the one from the ATI 9600 was best, but that is an AGP card that runs only under XP.. if your considering USB capture devices then its probable your not looking for a Firewire or AGP solution. Stay focused on the samples for the ATI AIW USB and ATI 600 USB and your comparisons should be valid.

I don't understand until the end. Have you checked and compared with, for example, ATI AIW USB all USB capture cards that came out in the world after the previously mentioned as well as after the ATI 600 USB ? Are you able to say that ATI AIW USB is the best in the world to date existing image capture card[among others or only USB](in terms of obtaining the best image quality) from, for example, VHS to a digital file ?

The problem here is you think you're asking an easy question. But that's not so.

And the question is one based on age, nothing else. But age doesn't matter. Age doesn't determine quality. Quality determines quality.

The ATI AIW USB was one of the best cards because of the Theatre 200 chipset, using custom ATI drivers to control it. Theatre chips were well regarded, well respected, because of capture quality. Unfortunately, AMD bought out ATI and discontinued the chip, as well as discontinued developing new drivers that would have allowed it to work under 64-bit OS.

Modern USB cards almost universally use generic eMPIA drivers connected to an eMPIA bridge that controls the actual underlying chipset. That in itself can be an issue, as it hides the actual chips. But even when custom drivers exist, like the ATI 600 USB or Hauppauge USB, errors were made in coding. On the ATI, you have to "hack" the registry to add audio keys, otherwise volume is too loud on ingest.

This is a marketplace listing -- not a general discussion topic. Perhaps continue this side topic in another thread.

Thank you for the answer and explanation(even probably partial).

any pal cards left?

Yep! I'll PM you. :)

-- merged --

Updated what I have left. :2cents:

I've been noticing that prices on these cards have been rising. I've several sell for $99 on eBay in recent times. Which is also aggravating, seeing as how mine cost less.

I may stop selling both capture cards and VCRs next year. Unsure yet.

ATI AIW USB, $95 - only 1 left!
I'll take this if still available!

-- merged --

I'll purchase if you still have it.

-- merged --

I also need an good but inexpensive TBC for the following equipment:
Sony Hi8 EVO-9850
Panasonic AG-7350
I think that these were professional units back in the day.
Is the ATI AIW USB, $95 a decent capture card for these units?

Not sure about the Panasonic, but the Sony EVO-9850 has a built-in TBC, however, you'd likely still need a frame sync TBC like an AVT-8710.

The Panasonic does not have a TBC built in, so an Panasonic DMR-ES10 other DVR with line-tbc preferrable there. It's possible to reduce the video output level on the panasonic with a trimmer on the video3 board if you want to lower the level to reduce the clipping/posterization issues the dvd-recorder. I used that method recently with a bad tape, the level adjustment was convenient since the PAL panasonic DVR seem to clip bright areas for whatever reason.

Don't know anything about the Hi8, other than that it seems to have a TBC. Don't know whether it's similar to consumer deck TBC or if it's more fancy.

LS,

If interface (USB, PCI, AGP) didn't matter what would be your order of recommendation from best to worst on these cards?

-Mike

Only referring to AIW cards? (And noting that XP is required for AIW.)

It depends. :2cents:

Every card has weaknesses and strengths, with some being nitpicks.
- AIW PCI has mild offset, nuisance DirectX, fiddly to install, but works great for newer motherboards
- AIW USB easiest to install, but prefer Turtle Beach Santa Cruz audio over USB audio, get warm
- AIW AGP 7200/7500/8500 (Theatre 100/Rage) runs cool, but install can be fuddly because many drivers to choose from
- AIW AGP 9000/9200/9600/9700/9800 (Theatre 200) better slight % MPEG quality, better graphics lag/overlay/etc, but potential noise from shielding issues, same wide install choices as 7000s
- AIW PCIe crippled compared to PCI/AGP/USB, no longer suggested

As you can see, mixed bag. If you're looking for the one "best" card, no such thing exists. All are fine, but each has caveats. For me, it's often as easy as learning about the proposed hardware config, as I have experience with many installs.

If you want non-XP, that's another conversation.

PM'd. :congrats:

Neither are recommended decks. Yes, those were "professional" but sometimes that doesn't mean what you think it does. That label doesn't always refer to quality, but rather the intended use and workflow. For what we do, converting consumer analog to digital, those aren't always the best choices.

TBCs inside players are line TBCs, which differ from external framesync TBCs. You need both.

The EVO-9850 was a top-of-the-line editing deck with genlock, digital audio capability, multi deck control, the works (for a 90s tape editor). If the TBC is anything like the one in my EV-S7000 (another high end editor) it's likely just a line TBC. Like Lordsmurf says often on this site for video conversion/restoration work you really need both a line TBC and a frame sync TBC.

One thing that works in the EVOs favor is it has a switch between "EDIT" and "NORMAL" modes. In my experience the EDIT mode on Hi8 decks just adds noise.

Hi,

Do you still have a 600 USB ($85) left? I'd like to buy one if you do.

Thanks!

What in the world is the quasi-clone and how does it compare to the clone, let alone the real thing?

Tevion (High Speed DVD Maker) quasi-clone
.. [Beware.. there are at least 3 different physical hardware models and software bundles]

Tevion quasi-clone and Hauppauge (USB-Live 2) clone
.. [Beware.. there are at least 5 different hardware Revisions released in different shaped boxes, but exact same physical plastic hardware shell]

.. confusion reigns supreme when looking at picking up one of these, unless you've tested the device and know how to tell them apart.

The VC500 is closer to a pure EMPIA product rather than using the EMPIA for the USB bridge chip connection to the crossbar and decoder chip.. but EMPIA revised and updated their designs over the years and kept releasing them as the VC500 with different incompatible drivers.. so you have to use the driver disk that came with that specific VC500 and not the generic version from the website.. because its updated without versioning specific to the hardware version you have.. lots of confusion.. but use the driver disk that came with the VC500 out of the package.. never swap driver versions.

I "believe".. though I could be wrong.. LS is refering to what newbies like me think of as the default "proc-amp" settings for the decoder and analog to digital converter in each device. Proc-amps have Brightness, Contrast, Hue and Saturation.. those are the four fundamental "settings" an NTSC or PAL signal has control over when transmitting a color video signal. They are "relative" and can be manually pushed around.. but you have to "do that" .. i.e. fiddle with those variables if the color looks wrong.. too green, too red.. too bright.. too dark. Out of the box, the best capture devices are close to "spot on" by default and you don't have to do any of that setup up front. People are very poor objective judges of what is "right" and often make it worse. And most people don't have a digital signal analyzer or "scope" to help compensate for their errors in judgement. The advantage of a device already known to be calibrated.. is you don't have to calibrate.. just hit record and go.

So grading on a curve:

The AIW USB2.0 is "spot on" its calibrated and ready to point and shoot

The ATI 600 USB is slightly off, but not by very much, it varies by so little it will never be noticed by most people

The Tevion USB is nearly as good as the ATI 600 but its scarce and rare.. Tevion is an EU company and only dipped its toe in the US market and quickly vacated leaving very few available in the US

The Hauppauge USB Live2 hung around for a long long time, and only recently stopped importing them from China.. which skewed the quality profile and since they kept changing it over such a long time, ... individual samples are pot luck. Its also much further off than the previous Three choices as a general rule.

The VC500 is "variable" from the get go.. and on purpose.. its pot luck, plus, plus separate versions for PC and MAC.. if you get lucky it can be great.. but debates rage to this day whether its "ok" for newbies or fresh from the box needs tweaks to the settings every time before use. But it seems to still be available new.. it seems a loss leader as a market demo product for EMPIA so the market has lots of them every year. Mostly they make chips for dash cams for cars.. those are the same being used for analog video capture.

From top to bottom, the shorter a period something stayed on the market, the more likely its quality remained consistent across its product run, the rarer it is and the more expensive today.. if the competing buyers know its worth.

The longer something was on the market.. the more variable and worse the total consistency got over time.. compare any two and their consistency is nothing alike. Add to this if they started out with a poorly calibrated product to begin with and its a massive time sink setting up.. or getting everything right from one capture session to the next. They are easier to find, less rare and cheaper.. but a royal pain to use.. might as well give up.. unless your a patient and methodical capture expert doing it for a living.

Thank You!

The VC500 (unless you mean the mac version) uses a chip made by conexant, not Empia, unless they've changed something recently. The really old ones used a trident chip.

That's been my experience.

The current VC500 for Mac I have on hand appears completely EMPIA based and uses the Glide capture program, with the EMPIA logo. I'm guessing since EchoFX is discontinuing their capture product after Apple kills Quicktime this year.. EMPIA had to take it on or be without a known capture product that uses their current chips.

I have to hand it to them though.. they like to hide change behind the scenes and keep everything customer facing "appearing" the same. Its only when something doesn't work that troubleshooting gets insane.

Per previous years, if the pattern continues, the next version on the PC side will have same box, same plastic container.. and still say VC500.. but inside it will be updated to a pure EMPIA decoder.. that might be the escape hatch for exiting the apple market space.. adapt to the Win10 ecosystem.. even as a UVC device for capture. It would be hard to do that if they didn't evolve the bridge chip to encompass the decoder part too.. since they would then have to rely on driver bits from other chip makers. By finally owning it all.. maybe it will be more stable on W10 ?

(note: I did not say.. more color correct..)

Magewell gave up on their driver space and updated the firmware to become a virtual webcam device (UVC).. users and experts lost a little control.. but we're such a niche space.. I guess we don't matter. Web video is good enough for most people these days.

Yeah the two VC500 mac we got here are also EMPIA (as I've written earlier), one full empia, the other one (presumably older) has a empia bridge and a Trident(NXP/Philips) SAA7113H chip. The Conexant chip doesn't seem to have driver support on macOS, so i guess that's why the empia ones are being used instead (as they seem well-supported on macos). It's one of the chips that do support win10 though, seems most new simple USB dongles (with only composite and S-Video) of slightly higher quality are based around either the Conexant 2310x or some empia chipset (either the all-in-one chipset, or with a TVP5150,). The really cheapo ones (ezcrap clones) use usbtv or something else.

I have two EVO-9720 dual Hi8 decks. Both were used in my business in the late 90's and early 2000's and were rock solid machines. One I bought almost new in around 2000 for use "sometime in the future". I also purchased the last "on the shelf" GV D200 decks in around 2008. Good thing I did, because the 9720's all have bad electrolytic capacitors, which Sony decks and cameras were notorious for from that era. So the video has smeary trails to the right and other instabilities.

I'll be using the GV D200 for analogue captures of video, but the D200 doesn't support PCM audio. So I use the 9720 decks to capture the PCM sound that I recorded back in the day. PCM is finicky and sounds pretty bad if not aligned correctly. It was necessary to adjust the tape guides on the decks to support the two cameras that I used for clean sound output. I'll sync the tracks in Vegas Video. Since the tapes have historically significant content, it's what I have to do.

Sent you a PM. Really want to get one

I saw you have 1 AIW and 600 left as of Oct 2019 update. I'd love to buy one from you (AIW preferred). My capture card just bit the dust, and I've got a huge pile of VHS to digitize.

Hi lord smurf! Sent a PM a while back (enquiring about the USB 600 stick), just checking if you received it? :)

Hey all, I have a JVC HR-S7900U + AVT-8120 by AV Toolbox for sale. I purchased this equipment from Lord Smurf earlier this year to digitize my parents VHS collection plus earn side income. Decided this gig wasn't for me and i'd focus on growing my video production business as this kept me home too much lol... All in all i only digitized like 20 tapes so this unit is still in pretty much the same condition it was when LS refurbished and sold it to me. Anyone interested? Can also bundle a black magic Intensity Shuttle (USB) that i purchased for this process.

General listing update: Very few units are now remaining. :2cents:

Remember: anybody interested in my hardware should PM me, I may not see thread replies as quickly.

And on to some questions/discussions...

The ATI 600 USB contains multiple chipsets, and the quasi-clones chipsets differ. The quasi-clone either contains the same main video chipset, or a slight variation.

It's actually more like 7 variations. Tevion is like Elgato, where nothing has model numbers. Everything is a "Tevion DVD Maker", which is ironic seeming as how the card cannot capture MPEG (ie, fhe format required for DVD), nor include any DVD authoring software. So you have at least a half-dozen variations of the card. Some look alike, some do not. Some look similar, some look vastly different.

And the ATI 600 USB clone version is rare, had low production. I think it was sold exclusive to one store, but have never been able to learn which that was, never been able to verify it. Maybe CompUSA, maybe another. As with other aspects of video, the info is lost, and not even Hauppauge knows.

Given how we've seen so many varied problems with the VC500, which are not reproducable to others with the "same" card, I'm fairly certain this is the case. Production components were likely just whatever happened to be on the shelf, rather than specific parts. It's why folks like sanlyn have a stellar experience with the VC500, and others want to smash it with a hammer. We see this with other capture cards in years past, so it doesn't at all surprise me.

This is fairly accurate, especially in content. The ATI 600 USB clones that use the generic eMPIA drivers, rather than the proprietary ATI/Hauppauge drivers, tend to be a bit hot/bright. This is adjusted with the device proc amp (about -5 to -8 is all that's needed), accessed from the filter/crossbar Video menus in VirtualDub. The generic eMPIA drivers control lots of eMPIA chips, so none are as precise as the actual ATI 600 USB with few drivers and a sole chipset. This isn't a problem, or an issue, just something you need to set. It's inverse to the audio, where ATI forgot to include an audio level control (oops!), and a registry hack is required to normalize it at 50% (128). The eMPIA drivers included an audio volume control, accessible in Windows, and sometimes in the filter/crossbar settings.

The Panasonic AG-1980P is a great example of this. That deck is all over the map, with the only real consistency being that the caps blow (and re-blow) in all of them.

PM'd.

Sent you a PM

I still have a small stash of capture cards.

The COVID-19 stay-at-home has given rise to capturing videos, seemingly due to finally having extra time, so getting a quality card right now is somewhat hard. Not that is was overly easy before, but definitely harder now.

Hello lordsmurf. Do you still some of the ATI AIW USB cards available? I'm really interested in purchasing one from you. Thank you.

Ok, I need the Pinnacle USB, NTSC. How do I buy from this site? As mentioned I am newbie..:rolleyes:

Yes. PM me. :congrats:

PM me. :wink2:

Updated.
Updated.

Hi LS, I've sent you several PMs about my payment from a few weeks back. Can you please give me an update?

Thanks!

It took some extra time, because I wrote a new install/usage guide for Win7/8/10 for these clones. :D
So I'll be getting back to you in coming days.

I actually like the clones better with Vista/7/8/10 now, and less so for XP!

Oh awesome, thanks! Was just getting a little nervous, haha. But glad to hear about the new guide too - I look forward to using it :woot:

I’m interested in both your ATI 600 USB ($135) and ATI AIW USB ($150).

If they're still available, would it be possible/not too late to package them with my incoming TBC?

Both are available, will PM. :congrats:

Updated the available capture cards. As of today, each card is now complete. :cool:

FYI, it can take months to track down all the little wires needed. (This reminds me of action figure weapons. Many people have the figures, but few still have those tiny plastic weapons! Those can be a real PITA to track down, and not cheap when you do.)