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  #1  
11-08-2022, 02:01 PM
LoftyGoals LoftyGoals is offline
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I find myself with money and VHS tapes I want to digitize but no time. I'm also an electrical engineer and a software engineer and a general nerd so building the rack and running it is going to be a DIY affair. My goal is to preserve the analog signal from the tapes and onto a hard drive that I will deal with later on an as-needed basis.

Generally, I'm trying to figure out which part of the conversion workflow I absolutely need to do while I have the physical tapes. Clearly I need a good S-VHS unit or two and a capture card. But then I wonder:
  • Is there an approach that will digitize _most_ of the raw material I need with the expectation that I'll have to re-digitize some percentage of the tapes?
  • Are there issues I can only detect during correction that require the source tapes to correct?
  • Do I have to hand-review the results to know which VCR to use?
  • Can the secondary TBC be done later?
Or, more generally if you had a pile of VHS tapes, you wanted to preserve them with as little manual intervention as possible, and money and disk space were no object (barring multiple copies of each tape), how would you do it?

Thank you!
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  #2  
11-09-2022, 01:43 PM
traal traal is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LoftyGoals View Post
Is there an approach that will digitize _most_ of the raw material I need with the expectation that I'll have to re-digitize some percentage of the tapes?
Follow the Virtualdub Settings Guide, pay attention to the part about histograms in order to set your brightness and contrast for a good capture. Occasionally I notice blown luma during restoration, then I have to go back and digitize the tape again. So keep the tapes nearby until you're sure you have a good capture.

Also turn on the audio level meter in VirtualDub and make sure the audio doesn't go too high during capture. After capture, I always load up the audio into Audacity and check for clipping, then if it looks good I normalize the audio and multiplex it back into the video.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LoftyGoals View Post
Can the secondary TBC be done later?
Not with a video capture card because it uses the timebase information to create the frames, then tosses it away. In theory, you would need something like this, then apply some sort of TBC filter in software.
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  #3  
11-09-2022, 08:15 PM
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lordsmurf lordsmurf is online now
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This is actually an easy question to answer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LoftyGoals View Post
I find myself with money and VHS tapes I want to digitize
That will allow for the tools needed.

Quote:
but no time.
This simply requires that you acquire the proper tools, no messing around with budget options, or the "duct tape and chicken wire" (aka cheapskate) methods. A large part of quality conversion is simply acquiring the proper tools. People waste time, even risk their sanity, by attempting wrong tools, wrong methods. Projects are much easier, and faster, with proper tools. This is true of almost anything, not just video.

Quote:
I'm also an electrical engineer and a software engineer and a general nerd so building the rack and running it is going to be a DIY affair.
This will make things easier to understand, especially anything on the computer end (capture card, drivers, OS). Somewhat the video, tech analytical mind is helpful.

Quote:
My goal is to preserve the analog signal from the tapes and onto a hard drive that I will deal with later on an as-needed basis.
That means lossless.

Quote:
Generally, I'm trying to figure out which part of the conversion workflow I absolutely need to do while I have the physical tapes.
The capture part.
VCR > TBC > capture card. Not just any random item, but specific units known to give the quality you needed, such as JVC/Panasonic VCR with line TBC, DataVideo/Cypress type TBC in verified working condition, capture card known to not mess with values. And above all, stay away from eBay, sinkhole of gambling, wasted time, and lying/incompetent sellers.

Quote:
Clearly I need a good S-VHS unit or two and a capture card. But then I wonder:
With VCR line TBC, and external frame TBC.

Quote:
Is there an approach that will digitize _most_ of the raw material
Lossless captures.

Quote:
I need with the expectation that I'll have to re-digitize some percentage of the tapes?
There actually should not be such an expectation. With the proper tools, proper methods, this can be a one-and-done project.

In fact, some tapes are failing at this late date (mostly 70s and early 80s VHS tapes), and one more good play is all that is left. The same, second play, will have massive issues, due to micro-oxide shed. (Not full oxide shed, but tiny flakes that are hard to see, and yet obvious on the video as noise patterning.) So one-and-done should be a goal these days, not playing repeatedly.

Quote:
Are there issues I can only detect during correction that require the source tapes to correct?
Only if the capture was bad, perhaps tracking drifted mid-tape, or multiple recordings from different devices caused different track/alignment issues. Usually, when a tape started to capture fine, it stays fine. Not always, but I'd say at least 80% of the time. It really depends on your tapes.

Quote:
Do I have to hand-review the results to know which VCR to use?
Before capture, to know what VCR to use?
Not usually. In fact, rarely. Just stay around for the first minute or two, then let it go, you can leave. But best to monitor it every 10 minutes or so.

When done, you can dump into VirtualDub, scrub faster than realtime (aka preview at 3x-10x speed). This can take a few minutes per tape, but better than hours of realtime watching. That's how you proof the capture. Be sure to test sample audio, don't just watch video.

Quote:
Can the secondary TBC be done later?
No.

Quote:
Or, more generally if you had a pile of VHS tapes, you wanted to preserve them with as little manual intervention as possible, and money and disk space were no object (barring multiple copies of each tape), how would you do it?
recommended JVC S-VHS VCR with line TBC >
> the best DataVideo/Cypress frame TBC
> the best capture card for the OS

... and from a reputable source, refurb'd units. Again, no messing about with this.

Time is more valuable than people realize. And time has a financial cost. Saving money here can waste potential money there. Too many people fall prey to negative economics.

I want:
- faithful quality to the actual source (not degraded quality from bad gear)
- time management
- heat mitigation

And you seem to mostly want the same.

Quote:
Originally Posted by traal View Post
Not with a video capture card because it uses the timebase information to create the frames, then tosses it away. In theory, you would need something like this, then apply some sort of TBC filter in software.
None of that is viable now, and probably not for years. In terms the OP may understand, it's "not production ready".

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  #4  
11-09-2022, 11:19 PM
LoftyGoals LoftyGoals is offline
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This is an amazing, thorough, and thoughtful answer. Thank you!

I'm sure I will have other questions after I sleep on this but two come to mind:
  • At what point is it more cost effective to buy a workflow than pay someone? Assuming some amount of resale value on the workflow and $10? $20? $40? per tape to have a professional do it, how many tapes would I have to be doing before it's worth the purchase?
  • Assuming a high quality workflow, how much of this is an art? Am I better off having professionals do the most important tapes because I won't get the best results even with the best hardware?
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  #5  
11-10-2022, 03:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LoftyGoals View Post
This is an amazing, thorough, and thoughtful answer. Thank you!

I'm sure I will have other questions after I sleep on this but two come to mind:
  • At what point is it more cost effective to buy a workflow than pay someone? Assuming some amount of resale value on the workflow and $10? $20? $40? per tape to have a professional do it, how many tapes would I have to be doing before it's worth the purchase?
  • Assuming a high quality workflow, how much of this is an art? Am I better off having professionals do the most important tapes because I won't get the best results even with the best hardware?
In years past, I'd often state 50 tapes is the cutoff, for DIY vs. outsourcing the project to a professional. (And noting lots of "professionals" are just quacks, not using pro gear, not having experience/knowledge whatsoever, so be very careful with this.)

But in more recent years, various non-economic factors need to be weighed. For example, shipping logistics, tape vs. climate, project timeframe, privacy. So it's a bit more nuanced.

Most of the art of the video was decided at the time of shooting. While there's something to be said of experience and knowledge, in terms of video capture/ingest, it mostly applies to troubleshooting, or getting "the best" quality (aka restoration). Cooperative tapes are mostly about having the proper gear, and just running them. A true professional mostly has access to multiple VCRs, TBCs, etc, for uncooperative tapes.

Both pro and amateurs should have "set aside" piles, tapes with issues. The DIY non-pro can outsource the problem tapes to the pro. The pro saves those for last in the project.

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