Why have eBay TBC-1000 prices changed?

[Junior1s]

Hey all,

I am an owner of a Data Video TBC-1000 that I purchased new from B&H in the early 2000's. I actually tried selling it along with some sign-video equipment on these forums about 10 years ago. You can look up my previous post to see some pictures. I am looking to sell my TBC-1000 again.

I've always followed the Ebay listings of TBC-1000's throughout the years. I have noticed a change recently. It seems so many TBC-1000 listings on Ebay are mostly the "Buy Now" option asking $1,500. Instead of the usual bidding for the highest offer. I also recall seeing a few months back someone selling a brand new in box TBC-1000 for less than 2k. Many of these TBC-1000's are not selling.

Most of the current sellers are not like myself that are not professional re-sellers. but are people that actually owned the item for years and now want to sell them. It looks like this is driving the cost of the TBC-1000 down, although I feel a bit artificially.

What does all this mean?
Has the value of working TBC-1000's gone down in price?


Thanks!

[lordsmurf]

I'm low on time lately, but took some time to answer this post...

At this exact moment, there are several factors at play:

1- Most DataVideo TBCs have entered a phase of mass-failing components. For that reason, many people are now actively avoiding DataVideo, myself included. An easy tell for a DataVideo TBC-1000 is to view a JVC S-VHS menu, and look for vertical or horizontal ghosting -- though that test doesn't mean a unit is 100% fine, just that it does/doesn't have the most common issue. It takes vastly more than exterior images of a unit, or images period, to see if it truly works properly, and that's now what you'll get from eBay.

These failures are not just caps, but power boards and chips. For example, all of my best TBC-3000 units are now failed, exhibiting the "ghost interlace" problems discussed here by multiple owners recently. TBC-1000 has been failing since 2019, with repairs needed, and bypass mods often suggested. The back VP-299 board is often bad, while the front VF-301x board needs attention. There are at least 5 versions of this unit, and DataVideo had design flaws on some of them. Those "duct tape and chicken wire" designs worked passable/"fine" at the time, and for years/decades even, but recent mass failures have caused cascade failures that permanently damage the unit. Some of these units have ugly internal power problems.

It was never "the best" TBC anyway, simply one that was easy to find in the 2000s, from B&H, for under $1k (at/near $500 some 20+ years ago). Inflation, scarcity and demand has pushed TBCs in the $2k+ range (4x over 20 years), which is fairly inline with other photo/AV gear with both scarcity + demand. But those prices can only be commanded if the unit is known to work, not just worthless eBay promises.

2 - It's summer, and historically those are muted months to sell anything. The pandemic was unusual, and fueled 365-day buy/sell that has since diminished.

3 - We're in a "vibecession" (vibe recession). The economy is actually doing just fine, but many people wrongly think it's bad, due to brainwashing by political news. So if you watch Fox (political "news"/opinion/commentary), you think the sky is falling. If you watch CNBC (business news), you know that narrative is bunk (earnings up, balance sheets strong, etc). So a lot of skittish buyers out there. The stock market is currently trading on sentiment more than earnings, both up and down. Unemployment has mean of about 5-6% since 1990, but is at a 50-year historical 3-4% range now. So even if unemployment rises to 5%, we're still doing fine, though news and markets will freak out. That's the current fear narrative, and many buyers are hiding under their beds, clutching their wallets ("my precious!").

4 - The units you see on eBay are probably not from the original owners. Recyclers/resellers/"flippers" are easy to spot on eBay -- they sell lots of random stuff. Those clowns think they found a black brick of gold, not realizing most units are now DOA. Those auctions should be avoided at all costs. The seller doesn't know a TBC from a toaster, and most so-called "testing" is simpletons seeing a red power LED. Claims of "a professional looked at it" and also dubious, generally hogwash. Most of these auctions use the weasel term "pulled from a working environment", which means nothing as to the quality and functionality of the unit for sale. And, in general, eBay sellers just lie. Simply seeing the (non)quality of most shipping packaging lets you realize how dumb they are, treating $1k+ items like $1 junk.

- One of the current eBay auctions is an obvious "flipper" with multiple units, selling lots of random junk. Avoid!
- Another has image of video, to "prove" it works. But those sample images of the TV screen show a possible chroma ghosting issues, failed caps, which is common.
- The last is a 0-rate seller (red flag!), with standard nonsense.

5 - Low-ball newbies have succeeded in driving down prices, wanting to use their "Google degree" and repair it. But refurb'ing these DataVideo TBCs is often not an easy or straight-forward process. These can be a real quagmire. Even folks like myself and Diopter_Doctor can scratch our heads and utter "WTF?" at some of these unit. I believe DD has had some good business in the past year, fixing/modding TBC-1000. For original owners, for bad buys, for failed DIY.

When you take these usually-needed refurb/repair/mod costs into account, these $1500+tax+shipping eBay units will be $2k+ before you can actually use the unit.

Conclusion: As stated, lots of aspects here. If you have a known-good unit, sell it here.

When you tried to sell your units 10+ years ago, post-GFC (2008-2009 recession), we were in this odd used video/photo/audio gear pricing lull. I bought, and sold, a lot of cheap gear back then. Back in 2010, I remember getting JVC S-VHS SR-V101 decks for $65 shipped/taxed, low hours/use, from the original owners. You could snag TBC-1000s and AVT-8710s under $200. I was a bit of a gear hoarder back then, but then started to sell it off in 2016 after prices rebounded. I didn't do it to buy/sell, I just bought as a gearhead, and sold as person needed funds for medical bills and living expenses. That's when I noticed the shabby state of used gear, and decided to start refurb'ing gear for others in the community (otherwise what's the point of having a site that talks about gear if said gear isn't available?)

I have passing interest in those SignVideo pieces, as most now have knob damage. Last year, I bought some minty gear from am old friend/peer. She retired from DVD conversion years ago, shut down her business, and finally decided to unload her gear stash. What a treasure trove! I bought some for myself, and bought some for others members here. Worth every penny! It's often contacts that matter (people you know), not venues (eBay/etc). Much of my gear is non-eBay in origin.

[NJRoadfan]

Even the pricing for "for parts only" machines of all types has gotten ridiculous. The pool of people looking for units to refurbish and resell is fairly small, mostly due to the lack of skill. The only good thing is the high pricing drives the market to create new solutions and workflows.

I don't know about the insides of the DataVideo TBC-1000, but the AVT-8710/Cypress TBC-100 basically used off the shelf chips to do the job. Replicating a unit like that is now much cheaper then it used to be. Its just a matter of time before someone actually does and gives it a straight digital output (SDI or HDMI).

[Junior1s]

Thanks lordsmurf for the detailed explanation. Njroadfan I will have to sell my TBC-1000 quick before someone does figure out how to make one! Lol. I want to prepare to sell my TBC-1000 and other video equipment I have as well. I am willing to do a few things to make my TBC-1000 more salable. I was thinking the following:

1. Take a short video of the TBC-1000 operating in my complete work flow. VCR>>TBC>>ProcAmp>>Digital Enhancer>>
T.V.

2. Remove TBC cover and show picture of all the internals, i.e. capacitors etc.

Other than the above the buyer will have to make a judgment call taking everything into account such as pictures. I also want to sell my JVC HR-S9911U vcr. All my equipment I purchased new. I know this sounds very cliche but I literally purchased all this in early 2000's and only used it a hand full of times. Everything has been stored away in a climate controlled environment.

I am willing to do some things to give the buyer more confidence but in the end I am not offering returns.

I will be eventually be selling everything including my JVC HR-S9911U S-VHS vcr.

Is there anything else I can do to give the buyer more confidence?

[lordsmurf]

Gear ages, used or not. And lack of use is often actually worse than regular use.

I'd not get ahead of myself. For the moment, just test everything out, take clips as you stated. We'll go from there. One step at a time.

Pictures of caps tells nothing, as caps more often just fizzle out, not bulge or leak.

So do #1, not #2.

[sa5150]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lordsmurf

I'm low on time lately, but took some time to answer this post...

At this exact moment, there are several factors at play:

1- Most DataVideo TBCs have entered a phase of mass-failing components. For that reason, many people are now actively avoiding DataVideo, myself included. An easy tell for a DataVideo TBC-1000 is to view a JVC S-VHS menu, and look for vertical or horizontal ghosting -- though that test doesn't mean a unit is 100% fine, just that it does/doesn't have the most common issue. It takes vastly more than exterior images of a unit, or images period, to see if it truly works properly, and that's now what you'll get from eBay.

These failures are not just caps, but power boards and chips. For example, all of my best TBC-3000 units are now failed, exhibiting the "ghost interlace" problems discussed here by multiple owners recently. TBC-1000 has been failing since 2019, with repairs needed, and bypass mods often suggested. The back VP-299 board is often bad, while the front VF-301x board needs attention. There are at least 5 versions of this unit, and DataVideo had design flaws on some of them. Those "duct tape and chicken wire" designs worked passable/"fine" at the time, and for years/decades even, but recent mass failures have caused cascade failures that permanently damage the unit. Some of these units have ugly internal power problems.

It was never "the best" TBC anyway, simply one that was easy to find in the 2000s, from B&H, for under $1k (at/near $500 some 20+ years ago). Inflation, scarcity and demand has pushed TBCs in the $2k+ range (4x over 20 years), which is fairly inline with other photo/AV gear with both scarcity + demand. But those prices can only be commanded if the unit is known to work, not just worthless eBay promises.

2 - It's summer, and historically those are muted months to sell anything. The pandemic was unusual, and fueled 365-day buy/sell that has since diminished.

3 - We're in a "vibecession" (vibe recession). The economy is actually doing just fine, but many people wrongly think it's bad, due to brainwashing by political news. So if you watch Fox (political "news"/opinion/commentary), you think the sky is falling. If you watch CNBC (business news), you know that narrative is bunk (earnings up, balance sheets strong, etc). So a lot of skittish buyers out there. The stock market is currently trading on sentiment more than earnings, both up and down. Unemployment has mean of about 5-6% since 1990, but is at a 50-year historical 3-4% range now. So even if unemployment rises to 5%, we're still doing fine, though news and markets will freak out. That's the current fear narrative, and many buyers are hiding under their beds, clutching their wallets ("my precious!").

4 - The units you see on eBay are probably not from the original owners. Recyclers/resellers/"flippers" are easy to spot on eBay -- they sell lots of random stuff. Those clowns think they found a black brick of gold, not realizing most units are now DOA. Those auctions should be avoided at all costs. The seller doesn't know a TBC from a toaster, and most so-called "testing" is simpletons seeing a red power LED. Claims of "a professional looked at it" and also dubious, generally hogwash. Most of these auctions use the weasel term "pulled from a working environment", which means nothing as to the quality and functionality of the unit for sale. And, in general, eBay sellers just lie. Simply seeing the (non)quality of most shipping packaging lets you realize how dumb they are, treating $1k+ items like $1 junk.

- One of the current eBay auctions is an obvious "flipper" with multiple units, selling lots of random junk. Avoid!
- Another has image of video, to "prove" it works. But those sample images of the TV screen show a possible chroma ghosting issues, failed caps, which is common.
- The last is a 0-rate seller (red flag!), with standard nonsense.

5 - Low-ball newbies have succeeded in driving down prices, wanting to use their "Google degree" and repair it. But refurb'ing these DataVideo TBCs is often not an easy or straight-forward process. These can be a real quagmire. Even folks like myself and Diopter_Doctor can scratch our heads and utter "WTF?" at some of these unit. I believe DD has had some good business in the past year, fixing/modding TBC-1000. For original owners, for bad buys, for failed DIY.

When you take these usually-needed refurb/repair/mod costs into account, these $1500+tax+shipping eBay units will be $2k+ before you can actually use the unit.

Conclusion: As stated, lots of aspects here. If you have a known-good unit, sell it here.

When you tried to sell your units 10+ years ago, post-GFC (2008-2009 recession), we were in this odd used video/photo/audio gear pricing lull. I bought, and sold, a lot of cheap gear back then. Back in 2010, I remember getting JVC S-VHS SR-V101 decks for $65 shipped/taxed, low hours/use, from the original owners. You could snag TBC-1000s and AVT-8710s under $200. I was a bit of a gear hoarder back then, but then started to sell it off in 2016 after prices rebounded. I didn't do it to buy/sell, I just bought as a gearhead, and sold as person needed funds for medical bills and living expenses. That's when I noticed the shabby state of used gear, and decided to start refurb'ing gear for others in the community (otherwise what's the point of having a site that talks about gear if said gear isn't available?)

I have passing interest in those SignVideo pieces, as most now have knob damage. Last year, I bought some minty gear from am old friend/peer. She retired from DVD conversion years ago, shut down her business, and finally decided to unload her gear stash. What a treasure trove! I bought some for myself, and bought some for others members here. Worth every penny! It's often contacts that matter (people you know), not venues (eBay/etc). Much of my gear is non-eBay in origin.

good write up minus the politics .

[lordsmurf]

Quote:

Originally Posted by sa5150

good write up minus the politics .

Politics affects us all, everywhere, with everything. No way to avoid certain discussions.