Help with old Sony Hi8 tapes...
 

So we have a bunch of family tapes (mainly Sony Hi8MP). The handycam recorder we used died years ago but I don't remember which Sony model it was. I just figured I could purchase another Sony Handycam and we could transfer the old tapes onto our computer HD or a DVD. I purchased a Sony CCD-TRV308 from Ebay but the recorder won't playback any of our old tapes. To see if it was the recorder, I used one of our old tapes and recorded a few seconds on it and it was able to be played back. But I am unable to get it to play any of our 10-13 year old tapes. Does anyone have any insight as to my problem?

Thanks in advance!

First (maybe stupid question), are you sure the tapes are recorded in Hi8 and not digital8? All the 8mm cassettes use the same kind of tapes, so even though the tape is marked Hi8MP, it could have been recorded as digital8. In this case you would need a digital8 camcorder to play them back.

If the tapes are indeed Hi8 (or plain video8), there may have been an alignment problem in either the original camcorder, or the new one you got. Hi8/Video8 tapes tend to either play flawlessly, or barely at all, unlike VHS tapes, and in my experience the Sony cameras tend to give up and not show anything at all if they have too much trouble playing back the tape. You can usually get an image on the screen when rewinding or ffwding though, which may at least allow you to see whether the tapes are recorded in Hi8, as a digital8 tape won't show anything since it would contain digital data which the Hi8 camera won't understand.

It can be a bit hard to say whether it's the tapes or the new camcorder that are problematic, so unless you have a lot of tapes it may be worth considering a transfer service instead, especially if the fault was due to the original camcorder, as they would ideally have a number of playback devices to chose from.

Good reply from hodgey, nothing to add.

Then if you want to digitise Hi8, at least two main options can be used:

A) Use a Digital8 camera able to play Hi8 and use the DV-out to your computer (this works both for Digital8 and Hi8 recordered tapes)

B) For Hi8 (and maybe advisable for Digital8 recordings as well) use the camera S-Video out > TBC > good capture card > VirtualDub, i.e. the normal advised workflow on digitalfaq.

A lot of pros and cons for both options, but very brief:

A) (-) If you program on the computer drops frames from the DV signal, you will get A/V-sync problems. For only 1 dropped frame, experiments shows audio first to be a 1/2 frame too early, after the drop a 1/2 frame too late. Some will say this is not important, but 1 frame offset can be noticed: I tried this with blind tests at home, also with my family members. Maybe it cannot be noticed for people speaking, but e.g. for a block hitting a table it really can be noticed. (-) DV format is not the best (but also not the worst) as a start for further editing, but please note the color issues for DV NTSC. (+) Easy.

B) (-) A lot of work and tweaking. (+) With tweaking perfect A/V-sync, proven by experiments with real clapperboard recordings, I can provide more details if wanted. (+) Lossless AVI's are a very good start for further editing, e.g. noise filtering, deshaking, etc.

So far I processed 4 Hi8 tapes succesfully via B). A lot of work, but very nice results, thanks to digitalfaq. Both an ATI 600 USB or AVerMedia CE310 capture card work flawlessly on a new computer with W10. A good TBC is needed without doubt, but for Hi8 my experience is that a DVK-100 works fine as well.

I hope that these first suggestions can be improved or amended by other members.

Thanks for the input so far. Since I no longer have the old camcorder that we used to make the tapes, I don't know the answer to your question if they were created in Hi8 or Digital 8. These tapes were all made between 10-13 years ago. The Sony CCD-TRV308 Handycam I just purchased from Ebay looks in really great shape but I don't know its age or if it is a digital8 or Hi8 recorder. I have probably close to 50 tapes total so i am going to go through each one and see if they play through the TRV308. But so far, 3 of them won't. I just get static and noise. Not even a glimpse of video or audio from the actual recording. And just for info....our original handycam was one of the larger sized ones and the TRV308 is also large in size.

TRV308 = Hi8 (only), so no Digital8. Digital8 will always be clearly marked on the camera.

Thanks... So is it safe to say that since it won't play any of my 10-13 year old tapes, the tapes were made on a digital 8 camcorder?

Well, you can never be sure, but it seems to be likely. My Hi8 tapes are 21 years old and still play perfectly. If your tapes have been stored under good conditions, it seems rather unlikely that a camera that records and plays a tape well now, would not give you any results with the old tapes. But hodgey's comments still apply: "Hi8/Video8 tapes tend to either play flawlessly, or barely at all". And your old camera may have had a problem ...

If they come out to be Digital8 tapes, on one hand you are lucky as potentially you get a perfect digital copy of the tape on your computer. On the other hand, as said, if your transfer program on the computer drops frames you may find a/v synch problems still. I do not know how to solve these other than to capture via S-Video, which seems somewhat odd, as you do a theoretically needless DA then AD conversion. Some others on the forum may know more about how to avoid dropped frames during iLink/DV tranfers.

Yep... All of the tapes were stored in their cases and in a box all these years. I'm torn on trying to find another Handycam on ebay or just taking all the tapes in to have someone else do it. I just need to make sure that I purchase exactly what I need (digital 8) this time.

What brands were the tapes? I haven't had problems playing back any of my tapes from 1998-2002, but a friend's batch of Sony made tapes from the early 90s were a crap shot. I would get constant head clogging with the from either the metal particles shedding off the tape or suspected bad lubricant on the tapes itself.

Digital 8 didn't come onto the market until 1999, so if there are tapes before that, they are definitely analog 8mm recordings. If you saw video and it degraded into static after a few seconds, that is definitely a clogged video head.

Thanks for the reply. I believe my problem is the fact that my tapes were made on a digital 8 camcorder 10 - 14 years ago and I presently only have a Hi8 recorder which is why, if I understand correctly, can only play back Hi8 tapes. Is that correct?

Plausible answer?
 

Hi. I just joined the forum - been reading it for years.

I just finished digitizing my family memories from 17 Hi8 analog tapes. I am fortunate to own a Sony CCD-TRV72 camcorder which is still in excellent condition. A number of years ago I learned from a website (which I can no longer find) that this camcorder supports, in addition to regular tapes, HME and MP tapes with a "pin" - a metallic pin inside the cassette tape-well that normally gets depressed when the cassette is inserted but will NOT be depressed when HME or MP tapes are inserted. The pin position determines whether the camcorder will shift to a wider bandwidth mode - supporting slightly more resolution.

Since MP videotape is intended for professional use it could be that playing back HME and MP videotapes are NOT supported in your camcorder. Look for an extra hole on the underside of your MP tapes that normal tapes don't have. Since MP tapes recorded in a supported camcorder have extra luminance information your camcorder may not be able to play them. (Maybe)

-=Ken=-

All 8mm videotapes are metal particle or evaporated metal, there are no oxide tapes. The more expensive tape was chosen in the 80s as it was viewed as being more durable than standard oxide tapes (more resistant to shedding and other common tape damage). Sony experimented with evaporated metal tape in the 90s as a higher quality alternative. The pin detection was likely for a Hi-8 tape vs. a standard 8mm cassette.

Hey, thanks for the reply.

I used to have a "premium" HME tape around here but can't find it now. It was the very best consumer Hi8 tape Sony made. Around 1995 I found a sale on "used" professional Hi8 tape and I bought a half dozen or so. I should have said "ProMP" since that is what is on the shell. I found the website article in ~2010 and that's when I checked for those extra holes.The extra hole is only found on the HME and ProHD tapes. Sort of a moot point since getting an HDV cam in 2007. But I thought the info might be interesting and hopefully useful as an alternative explanation for a certain type of tape not playing back in the camcorder.

https://www.ebay.com/p/10-Sony-Hi8-1...mec/1100152045
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Sony-P6-60H...cAAOSwimZbmcFd

Best,

-=Ken=-