Building great XP computer, capture system?

[sephi]

Since I’m going all in on a workflow, I figured I’d dive in and cover the PC element side and ask for any advice on how to proceed with a great companion XP machine for capturing. This is the basics I’ve gathered through lurking and it seems highly suggestive to use a legacy Windows XP machine to play nice with all the old software, which makes sense, but I want to do this in the best way that I can. Any advice is welcome. I've built computers but not a computer as old as this. Any heads-up on pitfalls is welcomed or suggestions. Please add to, correct, assess the lurking and searching I’ve done:

• XP Standalone
  • Never connect online
  • Sole purpose is for capture tasks only
  • No need for anti-virus/security packages on an obsolete vulnerable system
  • Lower chances to interfere with capturing process
• Use The Unofficial/Community Integral Edition
  • WinXP SP2 preferred
• Keep OS and Capture Drives separate
  • Dedicated HDD for capture not on the OS drive
• “SSD for XP is not needed, nor suggested” – LS
  • “Use a good SATA-II 2tb Seagate drive. And done.” – LS
  • SSDs suffer from “Trimming” and “Alignment” issues
  • 7200rpm SATA Hard Disc Drive (JPMedia)
• Don’t use USB drives due to intermittent data flow resulting in dropped frames
• Seagate is the “go-to” for video capturing (Why is this?)
• Don’t cheap out on Power Supply (JPMedia) and use an UPS
  • Protect rig from frying
• eSata expansion card with external hdd compatible with eSATA/USB 3.0 (JPMedia)
  • Allows for transfer files between capture/editing PC in less time

Best Motherboard Options (JPMedia):

• ASRock 4CoreDual-VSTA
• ASRock 775Dual-VSTA
• ASRock ConRoe865PE

From what I understand, this is the computer that will do all the capturing in the system. From here, everything is air-gapped over to a more modern Editing Machine for additional post processing. For this I plan on using my daily driver computer on win10 I built back in 2017 with 32gb of ram and a GTX 1070. I assume this would be okay, or would you suggest something else?

[beachcomber]

Standalone XP systems work great for capturing video... I have one, and it is a prized possession. I didn't build it, though: it's an HP desktop from 2003 that I retrofitted. I don't like e-waste, so I repurposed a machine that was already lying around and put quality 2000s era parts into it.

To capture analog video you'll want a quality video card and sound card. You don't say in your post what cards you are thinking of getting, but the recommended motherboard options you listed do have AGP slots, which means an ATI AIW card would be a possibility. Since this going to be a capture machine, those components are of critical importance.

I don't think it's necessary for a capture workstation to be airgapped. Just don't use it for typical surfing and shut it down when you aren't actively using it. A Firefox derivative such as MyPal makes a good web browser for an XP machine so you can download programs like VirtualDub. I completely agree with not installing any antivirus software or an Internet security suite. Forget about that stuff. Deploy network-based tools instead to protect your whole home network, including this system. pi-hole, Firewalla, pfsense... you've got options.

Get a UPS (uninterruptable power supply) for the computer, VCR, and TBC as suggested. I have tried all the major brands over the years and prefer APC because their software is effective at actually shutting a connected machine down gracefully whenever utility power fails. Older versions of their power management software remain obtainable that work flawlessly on XP and Server 2003 systems.

I have XP SP3 fully patched on my system and it works just fine with ATI's drivers and VirtualDub.

You can go with SP2 but in my opinion there's no reason not to deploy SP3.

Internal drives for an XP system should be HDDs, external drives you connect via USB can be SSDs. When I capture for others, I have them buy an ultraslim, ultrafast Samsung T5 which I load their captured files onto. I give that drive to them along with their tapes at the end of a capture project.

With respect to hard drive brands, I don't know why someone dubbed Seagate the "go to" for video capturing. Seagate is a company, not a model of drive or line of drives. In fact, it is one of just three big companies left making HDDs - the others are WD and Toshiba. And they all make lemons. When it comes to gear, the number one thing to remember is your mileage may vary (YMMV).

Far more of the Seagates I've bought have failed over the years than WDs or Toshibas and so I can't agree with blanket statements floating around the Internet like "Seagate makes the best drives." The model, warranty, and seller of the drive are what you should consider when buying an HDD, not which of the Big Three firms made it. I myself have not foresworn Seagate even though I've had bad experiences with some of their products. Pick a higher-end model of drive offered by any of the Big Three from a reputable retailer (avoid Amazon and eBay, go for B&H or Adorama instead).

The drive ought to have a nice long warranty, like five years - not because you want to do an RMA and accept a refurbished replacement drive if yours should fail, but because you want to minimize the likelihood of having to do that in the first place!

Be aware that many online HDD reviews are left by people who got lemons.

I don't use RAID in my capture workstation but I do in my NAS, which is where my captures get moved to once they're created. Wherever your captures will be stored long term should have redundancy. Disk failure is inevitable: it is a matter of time. And you need a good offsite backup solution to guard against the risk of fire, theft, etc.

[sephi]

Thank you for the response. I'll amend my initial post as a working doc I have going because I'm using it as a sort of outline based off the feedback.

Quote:

Originally Posted by beachcomber

To capture analog video you'll want a quality video card and sound card. You don't say in your post what cards you are thinking of getting, but the recommended motherboard options you listed do have AGP slots, which means an ATI AIW card would be a possibility. Since this going to be a capture machine, those components are of critical importance.

I forgot to add the soundcard. From what I've seen people recommend the Turtle Beach Santa Cruz, which has two models.

Quote:

Originally Posted by beachcomber

Get a UPS (uninterruptable power supply) for the computer, VCR, and TBC as suggested. I have tried all the major brands over the years and prefer APC because their software is effective at actually shutting a connected machine down gracefully whenever utility power fails. Older versions of their power management software remain obtainable that work flawlessly on XP and Server 2003 systems.

I have an APC UPS but I acquired it second hand and I didn't have any software for it, so I will look into legacy XP software.

Quote:

Originally Posted by beachcomber

I have XP SP3 fully patched on my system and it works just fine with ATI's drivers and VirtualDub.

You can go with SP2 but in my opinion there's no reason not to deploy SP3.

I don't know why I thought the Integral version would be SP2. I haven't played around with XP since I was a kid, so it's going to be fun going back. For some reason I thought SP3 just contained mostly security packages.

Quote:

Originally Posted by beachcomber

Internal drives for an XP system should be HDDs, external drives you connect via USB can be SSDs. When I capture for others, I have them buy an ultraslim, ultrafast Samsung T5 which I load their captured files onto. I give that drive to them along with their tapes at the end of a capture project.

You don't capture to the external SSD do you? This is just your client drive to hand back/transfer over their files correct?

Quote:

Originally Posted by beachcomber

With respect to hard drive brands, I don't know why someone dubbed Seagate the "go to" for video capturing. Seagate is a company, not a model of drive or line of drives. In fact, it is one of just three big companies left making HDDs - the others are WD and Toshiba. And they all make lemons. When it comes to gear, the number one thing to remember is your mileage may vary (YMMV).

Personally I always had a good time with WD. It's good to know there isn't something special about Seagate.

Quote:

Originally Posted by beachcomber

I don't use RAID in my capture workstation but I do in my NAS, which is where my captures get moved to once they're created. Wherever your captures will be stored long term should have redundancy. Disk failure is inevitable: it is a matter of time. And you need a good offsite backup solution to guard against the risk of fire, theft, etc.

I have an UnRaid NAS that I plan on storing my files one among other drives.

[beachcomber]

Turtle Beach Santa Cruz is what is in my system. Good card! You’re definitely on the right track.

APC’s PowerChute is what I use. Still available for download from APC. The version you want is here (link tested and working as of October 2022). XP is not supported by newer versions.

Most of my HDDs are WD Reds. None of them have failed yet. Some are well past their warranty periods. I do have some Seagate IronWolfs as well.

Your UnRAID NAS should work fine for your storage needs. Just make sure it backs up offsite.

I actually have captured straight to Samsung T5 SSDs with no problems. Figured it wouldn’t hurt to try. Nothing went wrong the first time or since. No issues with dropped frames. VirtualDub seems happy writing files to either an internal or external drive. As always, ymmv.

[sephi]

Quote:

Originally Posted by beachcomber

Most of my HDDs are WD Reds. None of them have failed yet. Some are well past their warranty periods. I do have some Seagate IronWolfs as well.

Your UnRAID NAS should work fine for your storage needs. Just make sure it backs up offsite.

I actually have captured straight to Samsung T5 SSDs with no problems. Figured it wouldn’t hurt to try. Nothing went wrong the first time or since. No issues with dropped frames. VirtualDub seems happy writing files to either an internal or external drive. As always, ymmv.

On to the software side of things, I'm downloading everything in preparation. It's somewhat odd gathering everything in a cart-before-the-horse type way, but I figure being over prepared is better than nothing. Is there is anything I should track down beyond the LS VirtualDub and the Huffyuv downloads? I've added the PCP to the list as well as Windows XP Professional SP3 x86 - Integral Edition 2022.9.9. Can you think of anything else, maybe driver wise or something that I could find useful or would recommend me to? I'm still searching among the forum for things here and then.

I think I have WD Reds in my NAS drive as well, but they are only a few years old. I thought there was an issue with capturing to an SSD for some reason, maybe it was a bottleneck thing? I can't remember. I planned on forgoing SSD as an OS because of the trimming and alignment btw, but it's probably the temptation of "technology" in me and because I am younger, but I find it hard getting past this now that I'm moving along in my panning stafe. Even if it doesn't last as long or has issues over time, with modern SSDs, I may still use it as an OS and just figure it's not meant to last very long and roll with it. If there are any issues in the capturing process, I'll go back to a reg HDD. The up-side just seems so good, but it might be out of my ignorance and I'll have to learn it the hard way.

[lordsmurf]

Just to add...

At this late date, XP official is not really suggested. Keep the license key, the disc, but toss it in a drawer. Instead get the unofficial Integral Edition community version. It has many patches and backports, allowing it to run better on modern hardware. It's been decrapified, with the quaint problematic "security" junk removed.

Note: This project is hosted on the main author's personal blog, and he's a political kook/wingnut, posting misinformation/nonsense/BS. So don't stray from the download page, otherwise you may accidentally get dumber. I always have to provide this disclaimer, as his stupid incoherent ramblings have scared off some from downloading it.

[beachcomber]

XP Integral is what I installed when I retrofitted my HP. It has worked really well for a couple of years now.

Quote:

Is there is anything I should track down beyond the LS VirtualDub and the Huffyuv downloads? I've added the PCP to the list as well as Windows XP Professional SP3 x86 - Integral Edition 2022.9.9. Can you think of anything else, maybe driver wise or something that I could find useful or would recommend me to? I'm still searching among the forum for things here and then.

You're basically ready. If you get an ATI card that doesn't have discs in the box you'll want drivers and software. A brand new factory sealed card would be ideal. I don't know if any are still out there.

Other software on my capture machine:

MyPal web browser
VLC
Media Player Classic
Notepad++ (for creating occasional notes about tapes)
SumatraPDF (lightweight PDF viewer)
Santa Cruz Control Panel (for Turtle Beach)

[sephi]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lordsmurf

Just to add...

At this late date, XP official is not really suggested. Keep the license key, the disc, but toss it in a drawer. Instead get the unofficial Integral Edition community version. It has many patches and backports, allowing it to run better on modern hardware. It's been decrapified, with the quaint problematic "security" junk removed.

Note: This project is hosted on the main author's personal blog, and he's a political kook/wingnut, posting misinformation/nonsense/BS. So don't stray from the download page, otherwise you may accidentally get dumber. I always have to provide this disclaimer, as his stupid incoherent ramblings have scared off some from downloading it.

I lurked enough to hunt down the unofficial Integral Edition, mostly from your previous posts, but I was unaware of any potential nonsense coming out of the website in general besides that, so that's good to know. It definitely seems like the best choice and anything that has been "decrapified" and trimmed down is always great. Do you still recommend avoiding SSDs on the XP Capture System entirely, especially for the OS, or has anything changed in recent years?

Besides the drivers for the capture card, the LS VirtualDub, can you think of anything else software wise I'll need? My goal is to gather everything in prep. This website has been a great resource thus far.

-- merged --

Adding to this thread. I'm not sure what type of capture card I'll end up getting, or if it will be USB, I think this would potentially change the build or alter my decisions.

I wanted to add in this interesting/setup posted from another user on this board that seemed to be in a similar situation. I wanted to bring some additional attention to it for posters in the future or if anyone could improve upon it, perhaps as another via option? It seems like they knew what they were doing or at least made some logical moves. This post was in this thread by user "tape."

The tl;dr is that he had limited space had knew he was using a USB capture card so he opted for a Dell 7010 USFF as it as the most recent machine they could find that natively supported XP Drivers and added to it a HDD Dock to replace the DVD drive:

ICY DOCK 2.5" SATA SSD / HDD Docking for Slim ODD Bay (12.7mm) | flexiDOCK MB511SPO-B

Are there any real cons to this option?

[beachcomber]

Quote:

Do you still recommend avoiding SSDs on the XP Capture System entirely, especially for the OS, or has anything changed in recent years?

Run XP on a HDD, not an SSD. There is no advantage to running Windows XP on an SSD in my experience. But you can use a fast external SSD for storage and capture.

Quote:

I wanted to add in this interesting/setup posted from another user on this board that seemed to be in a similar situation. I wanted to bring some additional attention to it for posters in the future or if anyone could improve upon it, perhaps as another via option? It seems like they knew what they were doing or at least made some logical moves. This post was in this thread by user "tape."

The tl;dr is that he had limited space had knew he was using a USB capture card so he opted for a Dell 7010 USFF as it as the most recent machine they could find that natively supported XP Drivers and added to it a HDD Dock to replace the DVD drive:

ICY DOCK 2.5" SATA SSD / HDD Docking for Slim ODD Bay (12.7mm) | flexiDOCK MB511SPO-B

Are there any real cons to this option?

Cons? Well, YMMV, as always.

I connect up external USB drives (Samsung T5s) for additional storage to my system whenever I need it. These well made Samsung drives come with sturdy USB cables, both Type A and Type C. No need for a docking station.

I left my perfectly good and working optical drives where they were when I retrofitted my HP.

Would recommend focusing on picking your capture card to start with, then you can proceed to other hardware decisions.

[sephi]

Quote:

Originally Posted by beachcomber

Would recommend focusing on picking your capture card to start with, then you can proceed to other hardware decisions.

Yes I realized this as that should really dictate your build unless you're trying to have 1 master capture system that can use all of them, maybe for swapping out purposes? Anyways, mine will just use USB 2.0, so there are more options, but it was good to learn about these. Anyways, moving onto softeware unless I should make a separate thread for it:

I actually have my XP Machine running. I used the Windows XP Professional SP3 x86 - Integral Edition 2022.9.9. I have the VirtualDub 1.9.11 + Filters + HuffYUV-multithreaded. Is there anything else you suggest or am I ready/good to go here?

[beachcomber]

Quote:

Originally Posted by sephi

I actually have my XP Machine running. I used the Windows XP Professional SP3 x86 - Integral Edition 2022.9.9. I have the VirtualDub 1.9.11 + Filters + HuffYUV-multithreaded. Is there anything else you suggest or am I ready/good to go here?

You're ready to roll!

Quoting from my earlier post, you could add:

MyPal web browser
VLC
Media Player Classic
Notepad++ (for creating occasional notes about tapes)
SumatraPDF (lightweight PDF viewer)
Santa Cruz Control Panel (for Turtle Beach, if that is your sound card)

[Hushpower]

Quote:

HuffYUV-multithreaded

Is that a good idea? Check out this topic, which mentions HUFF MT:

https://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/vid...e-huffyuv.html

and in particular, this post:

https://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/vid...html#post86993

[sephi]

Quote:

Originally Posted by beachcomber

You're ready to roll!

Quoting from my earlier post, you could add:

MyPal web browser
VLC
Media Player Classic
Notepad++ (for creating occasional notes about tapes)
SumatraPDF (lightweight PDF viewer)
Santa Cruz Control Panel (for Turtle Beach, if that is your sound card)

I hope I'm ready to roll. We'll find out. Most of those came with my XP build. I am familiar with NotePad Plus and SumatraPDF. I'm not sure what I'll need a PDF viewer, but it doesn't hurt. Thanks for your advice.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hushpower

Is that a good idea? Check out this topic, which mentions HUFF MT:

https://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/vid...e-huffyuv.html

and in particular, this post:

https://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/vid...html#post86993

Maybe I'll just stick to HuffYUV as is. Thank you for pointing out this post. I will read the entire thread. I made a somewhat educated guess that my CPU should use HUFF MT just because really. Hopefully installing both is okay or one does not affect the other. If I install reg HUFF now after installing HUFF MT, should that be a problem? I have to check when I get home. Luckily, I can just wipe the entire system and try again if need be.

[Phileholic]

Quote:

Originally Posted by sephi

Best Motherboard Options (JPMedia):

• ASRock 4CoreDual-VSTA
• ASRock 775Dual-VSTA
• ASRock ConRoe865PE

Have you considered a 775i65G like the R2 or the R3.0?

[captainvic]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phileholic

Have you considered a 775i65G like the R2 or the R3.0?

The ASRock 775i65G R3.0 seems to be a great option for an XP capture computer. Recommended.

Also, this thread may be helpful for anyone using Windows XP SP3:

https://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/com...k-windows.html

[Phileholic]

What about the processor? Would the Pentium 4 EE 3.73 be a good choice?

[captainvic]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phileholic

What about the processor? Would the Pentium 4 EE 3.73 be a good choice?

If you haven't seen this thread, it may be helpful:

https://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/com...p-desktop.html

[sephi]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phileholic

Have you considered a 775i65G like the R2 or the R3.0?

At the time when I made this thread, I didn't consider those. I think those would be fine through in retrospect, but I cannot say for sure. I'd consider if I ever needed to make another setup. How many people have more than 1 capture system?

[lordsmurf]

You just need a good CPU. Not fancy, not biggest/fastest (and also always hottest).

For capture, per-core speed matters more, as it's a single-core task. You have two cores at least total, one for OS, one for capture process. (I know it doesn't 100% work this way, but to an extent it does.) CPU task isolation is nice, as the single-core CPU days could have interrupts.

But almost any non-crap/non-budget CPU is fine for capturing analog/SD source footage, even many single cores. And when I mentioned budget, I mean super-budget, lowest end CPUs, many not even Intel/AMD, but noting Intel and especially AMD made lots of low-end junk during the 2000s into the 2010s.

I never use, or suggest, the TBSC control panel. Use Windows mixer/contrrols.

SSD is fragmented in nature, not good for long capture files.

XP does not understand SSD, no TRIM, so only use old SSD that has hardware TRIM enabled. That is a small list, mostly expensive Intel SSD from many years ago, not worth it.

Remember, USB3 expansion cards work well on newer fast-PCIe motherboards. Not for capture, but for file offload.

Do not use Huffyv-MT for capture. Don't use it for anything, if it can be avoided.

Asrock had multiple boards. For me, at the time, the 775i65G was not an option, SATA1 only, no SATA2. That doesn't matter for the capture, but it does for internal file management, the offloading process. (I've since swapped to another offload method.)

[Phileholic]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lordsmurf

You just need a good CPU. Not fancy, not biggest/fastest (and also always hottest).

For capture, per-core speed matters more, as it's a single-core task. You have two cores at least total, one for OS, one for capture process. (I know it doesn't 100% work this way, but to an extent it does.) CPU task isolation is nice, as the single-core CPU days could have interrupts.

This is in response to this thread
https://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/com...html#post88109

For my setup, I was going to use a Core 2 X6800, but after considering that the 775i65G only allows 1066 MHz FSB, I guess I'll have to go with the E7600.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lordsmurf

Asrock had multiple boards. For me, at the time, the 775i65G was not an option, SATA1 only, not SATA2. That doesn't matter for the capture, but it does for internal file management, the offloading process. (I've since swapped to another offload method.)

I've seen you mention that you use a 4CoreDual-SATA2 because of the SATA2 results in no dropped frames. I've been thinking of getting the same MB for that reason.