How to tell if JVC HR-S9600U needs service?

[damianiscool]

Recently I purchased an untested JVC HR-S9600U off ebay for $300 (great price!) and it works! I’ve taken it apart to examine it working with a test tape and the TBC/NR works, the tracking works, I don’t know if the dynamic drum works (not sure how to test it).

The one and only thing I have noticed that appears to be odd is that when watching a tape, here and there I will see a small splotch on the screen, as if maybe there was a piece of dust on the tape and the head saw that over top of the tape.

Ive ran a cleaner tape in the deck a total of three times now. Problem is, I’ve discovered that many people on this forum have mixed opinions on cleaner tapes. What’s done is done though. I will likely manually clean the heads with some alcohol and those fancy camera sensor swabs.

Point is, being that I am new to this hobby (researching for about two months), I’m have to ask a few noob questions. How can I distinguish whether this deck needs any additional servicing? What’s the criteria? What am I looking for? Is there anything I’m missing?

Thanks in advance!

[timtape]

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Originally Posted by damianiscool

Point is, being that I am new to this hobby (researching for about two months), I’m have to ask a few noob questions. How can I distinguish whether this deck needs any additional servicing? What’s the criteria? What am I looking for? Is there anything I’m missing?

Thanks in advance!

Welcome. No one here can know if your deck needs a service because unlike you we dont have it in front of us to test it. But it can help if you upload a sample digitized clip of one of your tapes. Even so a deck needing a service may still play tapes back very well and without damaging them - for a while.

[damianiscool]

Now that is a really good point, I should have thought of that. Unfortunately I am going on a work trip tomorrow so the digitized clip will have to wait and I will update this post after. Thank you for your comment!

[lordsmurf]

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Originally Posted by damianiscool

Recently I purchased an untested JVC HR-S9600U off ebay

That phrase rarely ends well.

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for $300 (great price!)

But only if it does truly function correctly. Otherwise you bought a project, or even just a box of parts. For a parts deck, for NTSC S-VHS decks, $300 is about the going rate these days.

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I don’t know if the dynamic drum works (not sure how to test it).

You'll know for certain if it does not function -- the VCR will turn on, then shut back off. The bigger issue is cracking on these gears, which may not be noticed until it's given some actual use. I don't mean heavy use either, but just some use. Certain JVCs are ticking time bombs, similar to un-recapped AG-1980P, and most TBC-1000s.

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and it works! ......
The one and only thing I have noticed that appears to be odd is that when watching a tape, here and there I will see a small splotch on the screen,

Oxymoron. When you write "it works, but..." then it really does not function correctly.

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Ive ran a cleaner tape in the deck a total of three times now. Problem is, I’ve discovered that many people on this forum have mixed opinions on cleaner tapes.

It's not opinion, but fact. "Cleaning" tapes were made for low-knowledge VCRs users. Once upon a time, manufacturers did not want you to open these decks, and for good reason (people are idiots). But it's now decades later, no warranties, no new VCRs to sell you, and in fact almost all of the VCR companies now cease to exist. So you're expected to do what a tech did: open the VCR lid, carefully, and with proper supplies, carefully clean the heads and transport path. I can 99%+ guaranteed you that the deck needs a full refit, being eBay fodder/schlock. These days, almost all units come from random locations, often storage units and estate sales. Proper cleaning is a must, and added repairs are likely. This historical poor state of VCR storage/handling over the years is also a reason why NTSC decks cost more, as many have succumbed to those harsh conditions (plastic breaking, rust, seizing parts, etc).

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What’s done is done though. I will likely manually clean the heads with some alcohol and those fancy camera sensor swabs.

Yep. I actually use 20 lb copy paper myself, but you must be careful. Also don't get dusty cheap paper. Yes, 20 lb is cheap, but there are still grades of paper quality. You want to remove problems, not add!

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Point is, being that I am new to this hobby (researching for about two months), I’m have to ask a few noob questions. How can I distinguish whether this deck needs any additional servicing? What’s the criteria? What am I looking for? Is there anything I’m missing?

timetape gave the correct answer: video clip samples needed. Start with compressed longer runs, attached to the forum, then we can focus on lossless later if needed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by timtape

Welcome. No one here can know if your deck needs a service because unlike you we dont have it in front of us to test it. But it can help if you upload a sample digitized clip of one of your tapes. Even so a deck needing a service may still play tapes back very well and without damaging them - for a while.

All correct.

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Originally Posted by damianiscool

Now that is a really good point, I should have thought of that. Unfortunately I am going on a work trip tomorrow so the digitized clip will have to wait and I will update this post after. Thank you for your comment!

We'll be here when ready.

[themaster1]

Do a record test, that's one thing.Compare the recording to a known good deck of yours, that'll give you an idea of the state of the heads drum (keepin in mind others factors can be at play)

You can visually try to spot potentially bulged capacitors, real dirty/blacked caps.

[damianiscool]

A big thank you to all the replies, it is all very helpful information and much appreciated. Unfortunately the only other deck I have is one of the DVD-VCR combo decks, so I’m not sure how helpful that would be for a comparison. Regardless, I will update this post in a month with some digitized footage

[aramkolt]

Quote:

Originally Posted by themaster1

Do a record test, that's one thing.Compare the recording to a known good deck of yours, that'll give you an idea of the state of the heads drum (keepin in mind others factors can be at play)

Is it really a better test for a VCR to be able to record rather than to play? I'd think a playback test would be as good as a record test, and more repeatable because you can use the same test playback tape in multiple VCRs to directly compare them?

-- merged --

I think ebay gets too much hate around here. I believe it to be the best source of hard to find items at often reasonable prices. You have the general buyer guarantee with ebay that items need to be as described, so if it's listed as anything other than parts or repair or untested condition, you are allowed to return it with return shipping also covered by the seller. This also applies if it gets damaged during shipping.

If you aren't looking for a project, I wouldn't recommend buying "untested items" or items listed as "parts/repair" for item condition. However, if item condition is listed as "used" and there isn't anything in the description that says it doesn't work, is supposed to work and eBay's buyer guarantee would be in effect.

...but back to the OP - I concur with the other posters that the dynamic drum not working will cause it to either not play at all before shutting down, or functions like going from ff to play to rewind will cause it to stop functioning and shut down.

I believe that the dynamic drum gears should be removed even if they haven't failed yet because any added stress on the worm gear that is driven from the DD motor can also crack. If that worm gear cracks, it usually causes the whole assembly to seize and the VCR will be unusable without further modifications that may or may not work.


You should also be wary of premium refurbishing services - Most will use language that doesn't tell you what they actually do - like "full overhaul" or "complete disassembly" and they don't state what they actually did or changed on a refurbished VCR that they are selling. Adjustment to a factory calibration is almost never needed outside of possibly tape guides if there are tracking issues or an unstable picture with all tapes.

I'm sure refurbishers will test some individual components to chase down an issue if the VCR isn't powering on for example, but this is very unlikely to be part of their "standard" refurbishing process like they'll make it sound. They'll most likely address common failure points like head cleaning, mode switch cleaning, visually inspect for cap damage, as well as deck lubrication and maybe pinch roller replacement. Most refurbishers are probably not checking every single capacitor's ESR in-circuit to screen for bad ones. There's absolutely no way that they are pulling each capacitor out of circuit for most detailed/accurate testing.

Just as an example, I got the opportunity to inspect one of Deter's refurbished AG1980's where the buyer had an issue with a VHS-C adapter playback and Deter claimed had broken the VCR and there's no warranty if VHS-C adapters are used - this doesn't make much sense since AG1980's are known to play VHS-C with adapters better than most, but either way, Deter refused to look at it while still under the warranty period for that reason. I was able to fix the issue with deck lubrication. Upon inspection of the rest of the VCR, only 6 through-hole electrolytic caps on the front LCD board and only the SMT caps on the TBC card were replaced. Nothing on any other board was changed. People are generally happy with his work, but it was not a particularly thorough refurb as you'd expect for the $1.5k or whatever that he charges for a refurbished AG1980. I know from refurbishing 15+ of these myself that there are many other capacitors that nearly always out of spec which will likely cause other issues to pop up later, or it may just function sub-optimally the entire time. I can't say that this is the case for all of Deter's refurbs since I've only seen the one unit.

As for the picture splotch you mentioned, if it happens on exactly the same frames on the tape for multiple playbacks, it's almost certainly the tape and not the VCR that has the issue. If that splotch is constant and not there when you play it on a different VCR, then it is almost certainly an issue with the VCR. But yes, a short capture showing the splotch would be helpful as well.

[damianiscool]

The level of detail on this post^ is amazing, thank you. This is exactly the context I was looking for. Additionally, I also value ebay. Personally, given that I do not have the funds to purchase a $900 JVC HR-S9600U and the ebay guarantee, I am on your side, but I do see theother viewpoint as well.

[lordsmurf]

Quote:

Originally Posted by aramkolt

Is it really a better test for a VCR to be able to record rather than to play?

It's not about "better test", but rather "another test". When one test is inconclusive, you do more and different tests. Recording, rather than playing, can be vastly different.

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I think ebay gets too much hate around here. I believe it to be the best source of hard to find items at often reasonable prices. You have the general buyer guarantee with ebay that items need to be as described, so if it's listed as anything other than parts or repair or untested condition, you are allowed to return it with return shipping also covered by the seller. This also applies if it gets damaged during shipping.

You are highly mistaken on all counts here. I would suggest you've simply not used it enough. I've been part of private "buyer tests", with sample sizes up to 100 units being bought. Almost nothing was as described, most (80%+) were failed or faulty in some way -- and that's the "tested" and "working" listings! Sometimes we'd have "price is no object" for certain tests, and were very selective in acquiring so-called "refurbished" or "excellent" units. It didn't make a difference, the 80% rule was still in effect.

In terms of "buyer protection", there really is none. The system can be gamed by bad sellers, not just bad buyers (contrary to whiny sellers on Youtube). There are underground sites dedicated to scamming on eBay, both as buyer and seller.

We even ran into situations where bad sellers would issue threats to come to our "homes" (the address they had, not homes). Some bad sellers threatened to sue if we returned the bad item, ranting about how eBay is a "contract" and they sold a "used" item "as is" (FYI, oxymoron on eBay). One bad seller starting ranting his pro-Trump politics, but nobody but him was discussing politics. eBay is the general population, and there are some insane SOBs on there. You subject yourself to that.

In general, eBay is a shithole cesspool of faulty used video gear.

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I believe that the dynamic drum gears should be removed even if they haven't failed yet

No, terrible advice. "Ain't broke, don't fix it." That process is tenuous, and you risk breaking it by trying to "fix" what isn't an issue. Address it if/when it fails, never before.

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You should also be wary of premium refurbishing services - Most will use language that doesn't tell you what they actually do - like "full overhaul" or "complete disassembly" and they don't state what they actually did or changed on a refurbished VCR that they are selling.

This is true, especially when it comes to generic "electronics repair" type shops. They do not get any volume of VCRs to make such claims. Even "VCR only" repair shops like TGrant have screwed over a lot of us in the past, where he'd on replace bad caps, instead of all caps, as all will even be bad/failed. That was apparently a way to get repeat business, but that's backfired on him.

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Adjustment to a factory calibration is almost never needed outside of possibly tape guides if there are tracking issues or an unstable picture with all tapes.

This is not true. VCRs can't fight gravity, and it causes adjustable components to slump over the decades.

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They'll most likely address common failure points like ... mode switch cleaning

This isn't a common issue. It's become "meme'd" in recent years, since the pandemic, by low-knowledge newbies learning about VCRs. But they learned about VCRs from random sources.

In general, mode switches don't get dirty, either much or at all -- save for certain brands/models, like Funai, which was infamous for bad mode switches. It had nothing to do with mode switches in general, but rather than craptastic (non)quality of Funai decks.

A mode switch is a mostly-sealed lubed component in a VCR, not something subjected to external contaminants like VCR heads. Trying to access mode switches is not easy, and risks breaking other things to get to it -- even when you're careful and experienced at deck repair! Obviously it wasn't intended to ever need cleaning.

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Most refurbishers are probably not checking every single capacitor's ESR in-circuit to screen for bad ones.

Why would you? Would you remove and test every spark plug in a car, if you didn't suspect the plugs were bad? No. At most, you'd test one plug if suspected of issues, and if it was bad, you'd just swap them all. That's SOP for most problems of this ilk.

It think you're confusing "repairing", "rebuilding", and "refurbishing". Separate tasks, I've done all 3.

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Just as an example, I got the opportunity to inspect one of Deter's refurbished AG1980's where the buyer had an issue with a VHS-C adapter playback and Deter claimed had broken the VCR and there's no warranty if VHS-C adapters are used - this doesn't make much sense since AG1980's are known to play VHS-C with adapters better than most, but either way, Deter refused to look at it while still under the warranty period for that reason. I was able to fix the issue with deck lubrication. Upon inspection of the rest of the VCR, only 6 through-hole electrolytic caps on the front LCD board and only the SMT caps on the TBC card were replaced. Nothing on any other board was changed. People are generally happy with his work, but it was not a particularly thorough refurb as you'd expect for the $1.5k or whatever that he charges for a refurbished AG1980. I know from refurbishing 15+ of these myself that there are many other capacitors that nearly always out of spec which will likely cause other issues to pop up later, or it may just function sub-optimally the entire time. I can't say that this is the case for all of Deter's refurbs since I've only seen the one unit.

If you want to claim Deter does a subpar job, then I suggest you chronicle/notate all caps that need attention, what function those affect. Essentially who, what, where, why, but for the caps of 1980 decks. Because thus far, his refurbs are excellent.

I do not agree with the whole VHS-C snafu. That merits further discussion with him. But he's on leave for about 6 months, mostly unavailable to respond to messages. So not urgent. I'm not going to make too many comments on this in public, as I want him to return for open discussion on the matter.

He re-did one of my problem decks in May, and it's been performing like a champ (caps-wise) these past few months. It does need a realign (something he does not do, but I do), and it does have some sporadic tape squeal issues (probably lube needed somewhere).

As for the picture splotch you mentioned, if it happens on exactly the same frames on the tape for multiple playbacks, it's almost certainly the tape and not the VCR that has the issue. If that splotch is constant and not there when you play it on a different VCR, then it is almost certainly an issue with the VCR. But yes, a short capture showing the splotch would be helpful as well.

[Gary34]

I sold my intensity shuttle I had from before I got here on eBay and I went to the the post office and the guy said shipping material was free because it was priority. He had spare bubble wrap and all that. I double boxed it and that guy got a good price. I even asked him if he wanted to get it for digitizing VHS and warned him of how bad it is for that before the sale. I packaged it extremely well. Then he wanted me to do a return because he said it was defective. I told him you need to download the drive. I told him contact the company. He told me he did and they agreed with him and they said it was defective. He gave me bad feedback and said if I clicked issue full refund then he would delete the feedback then i got eBay to remove that because it is considered feedback extortion. He tried to trick me into issuing a refund and him keeping the product. Also that guy told me he was going to show me how eBay worked during this whole thing. He could tell it was my first time messing with all of that. I called eBay multiple times then they got me mixed up with another person the same buyer was trying to force a return on. I sent him a link to the drivers. I emailed Blackmagic and they said drivers are needed. I showed a picture of that email. I showed a picture of a new card that had the CD that came with it that had the drivers on it. That guy stopped communication and couldn’t see any of that. He wouldn’t actually communicate with me anyways except to say it’s defective a few times. It was like he couldn’t be bothered to listen for a second or actually call the company. After all of that he never ended up returning it after I issued the return. It was a PITA I should of just issued the return off the bat just to skip all that. I had to learn all there rules and ways to actually get customer service on the phone.

One of the people I work with his friend sold a bunch of tattoo equipment then the people wanted to return it so he said fine and now a lot of it is missing. They kept pieces they wanted. It was like 5 grand worth of stuff. They are denying it.

I definitely wouldn’t want to sell my VCR or TBC on eBay. A lot of this stuff gets messed up in shipping. Also I don’t wanna risk that thing coming back to me with small pieces missing. Once I saw all that I thought well there’s no way I would sell nice video gear through there. I doubt many people that actually have good gear would want to sell on eBay. It’s messing with a whole different crowd. Also the reputable places you can buy from mark all there gear. That marked gear resells better since it’s a trusted name.

[lordsmurf]

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Originally Posted by Gary34

Also the reputable places you can buy from mark all there gear. That marked gear resells better since it’s a trusted name.

Yep, I mark mine. And it has resold almost instantly for that reason. Both the now-seller and new buyers have contacted me for various reasons.

I even once bought back my own gear, after it had changed hands a few times -- and it was still in perfect condition! That was an amusing conversation. Paraphrased: "I have some of your gear, but we never met. I read that you sometimes buy back your own gear. I'm done with my project now. Do you want to buy this from me? I'd rather sell it to somebody that knows what it is, not sell on eBay or Facebook." And the need, prices, etc, made it happen.

[Gary34]

This thread is about uncertainty. There’s not much of a way for people that purchase there gear from eBay to really be certain everything is good. Especially new people. That obviously changes for someone like Deter. The buyer that gets it’s it after you will be uncertain to and that should affect the price. It’s still cool if you find a really good deal but it takes like a year of looking for a lot of people to get gear. It’s a real hunt to find something recommended then obviously a gamble IMO.