I read all the guides, searched all the forums (here and VideoHelp, mostly), watched all the videos, bought the right stuff (chamois swabs, highest proof isopropyl I could find), and generally was incredibly careful with a light touch and yet...
The chamois did come back with some grime on it, so it does seem like the folks who said my image issues were dirty tape heads & recommended cleaning were correct.
It's best to use for a test the same tape and the same scene or even same frame from that scene, so we're comparing only the change from the head cleaning. But assuming the pictures on the tape are basically comparable, the 'after' cleaning pic doesnt look good. Cleaning normally makes the picture better. But just to be sure, feel free to upload the 'before' still but after head cleaning.
I don't think that's typically how head damage would usually present, but I could see that being a component being damaged by static though maybe when the cover was off. Usually head damage should be where frames are mostly just black and white static noise. The best way to tell for sure if it's the head or head amplifier would be to look at the RF envelope with an oscilloscope. If the RF output looks good, then there's a processing problem later down the line which also probably isn't likely repairable without a lot of specialized knowledge, at least without a separate machine to scavenge parts from.
The before pictures also kind of look off as well in terms of something digitally wrong or electrical noise or interference bleeding into picture rather than dirty heads to me.
If it was just refurbished, I wouldn't have expected those issues in the "before" pictures either.
I'm not sure what I'm looking at here. How are those image taken?
What prompted the cleaning?
We need to eliminated the frame TBCs and capture cards, so plug the VCR directly into a TV that has composite or s-video, see how it performs there. (I'm hoping you're already done that, eliminated the TBCs. You have some of my best units, but I'm afraid that I see a Cypress noise pattern. Confirm.)
You're properly on UPS, correct?
@aramkolt, no it's not a recent refurb. Never assume. Ask.
Thank you for the quick responses, everyone! Doing the best I can with minimal resources and I really appreciate your time.
I removed the TBC from the chain and the image issues are gone, so it does seem like this was never the VCR, although of course it's still possible I did something during the cleaning. I also did gently blow out some dust from the bottom of the casing with a can of Dust-Off (compressed gas, not air), but avoided any mechanisms.
The TBC is a 1T-TBC set to auto, (top row) system, and N (NTSC 3.58 Mhz) as usual. If it is the TBC:
a. what happened in the first place/what's wrong with it? This happened relatively suddenly -- capture fine on Friday, full of mosaic artifacts on Monday.
b. why did the image change to that more vertical-stripe pattern after cleaning the tape heads?
To answer some questions (which may not be relevant anymore):
- Decided to clean the tape heads after this was recommended by some a/v archivist and media digitization colleagues. I shared the "before" images and a short video file with them and they identified the mosaic-like patterns in the highlights of the images as being caused by dirty video heads. One of them said "when it's time to clean the head, it's suddenly time to clean the head."
- all the images are screen captures of ffv1/mkv files generated as the preservation master. Just a screenshot of the file open in VLC player. The image issues are there on capture/playback as well.
- Attaching screenshots of roughly the same place in the video pre-cleaning, post-cleaning with TBC, and post-cleaning without TBC. I also have short videos I can share of similar places in those three files if that would be helpful.
I'd have to say it's coincidence that the TBC stopped working at the same time as the cleaning, or could be static damage maybe. I don't hear too many reports of static damage for TBCs, but it's something that is possible and hard to really trace back if it happened. The capacitors inside of the TBC might need changing and that's probably what I would personally do next because it is relatively straightforward and there's a chance it fixes it. Though I'm not extremely hopeful about that because the noise patterns that it is adding seem very "digital" to me in that they repeat, so could be one of the integrated circuits is bad as well. All speculation though, so take that with a grain of salt.
I removed the TBC from the chain and the image issues are gone, so it does seem like this was never the VCR, although of course it's still possible I did something during the cleaning. I also did gently blow out some dust from the bottom of the casing with a can of Dust-Off (compressed gas, not air), but avoided any mechanisms.
Yes, it is possible that something happened.
When you start moving, cleaning, plugging/unplugging gear, things can go sideways quickly.
For example, you never want to leave a VCR turned on, nor plugged in (neither power, nor s-video/etc chained to other devices), when cleaning it.
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The TBC is a 1T-TBC set to auto, (top row) system, and N (NTSC 3.58 Mhz) as usual.
I never like to use AUTO. The primary reason is because bad signals can confuse TBCs -- any TBCs -- when it is allowed to "sense" the format on its own. Set it to NTSC, or PAL, or SECAM, or whatever. Hard selection, never auto. (FYI, this is a reason that the TBC-1000 is not suggested for some settings. It only auto-senses PAL/NTSC, gets confused by anything else, and has PAL-first or NTSC-first versions.)
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If it is the TBC:
a. what happened in the first place/what's wrong with it? This happened relatively suddenly -- capture fine on Friday, full of mosaic artifacts on Monday.
Did you leave it turn on over that weekend? If so, that would be very bad.
Did anybody else have access to the room? Perhaps a cleaning person running a vacuum clean in the room? Again, very bad, lots of static discharge this time of year.
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b. why did the image change to that more vertical-stripe pattern after cleaning the tape heads?
Vertical stripe pattern? I don't understand what you're referring to, specifically. I don't want to guess. Attach "vertical stripe pattern" (JPEG, PNG) so I can understand. That way, no uncertainty, no mistakes in my advice..
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- Decided to clean the tape heads after this was recommended by some a/v archivist and media digitization colleagues.
Well, we've had discussions about the archive/museum/library industry before. They're not always the most clued-in folks, and far too many of them fall for myth and marketing. Canopus and Blackmagic have especially injected BS/FUD into that industry, and it just will not go away (after literal decades, too). It's too close-knit of a community, a real echo chamber.
People vastly over-clean gear for the stupidest reasons. (No, I'm not blaming you here. You acted on advice, and I've not yet determined if it was good advice, or really dumb advice.)
There are only a few good reasons to clean gear, not "just because". For VCRs, cleaning is not something that should be done to address whatever ails a deck. For VCRs, "clean the heads!!!" is as ridiculous as "replace the caps!!!" There's a vast different between "common fixes" (legit solutions to a specific error), and "dumb fixes" (ie, not a fix at all).
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I shared the "before" images and a short video file with them and they identified the mosaic-like patterns in the highlights of the images as being caused by dirty video heads. One of them said "when it's time to clean the head, it's suddenly time to clean the head."
Well, now I've determined...
That was definitely NOT an issue that is addresses by cleaning heads. That was terrible advice.
FYI, head cleaning is specifically related to "tracking" and "snow". Not exactly those issues in a technical since, but from a laymen understanding of what those dirty-head noises look like. Essentially ,dirty heads prevent an image from showing properly, because debris is in the way. The problem is that too many people expand their understanding of "properly" to mean "anything is wrong". Big difference. Huge difference.
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- all the images are screen captures of ffv1/mkv files generated as the preservation master. Just a screenshot of the file open in VLC player. The image issues are there on capture/playback as well.
VLC processes screencaps, so it's not a good method for video screencaps. VirtualDub2 would be a far better option here.
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Attaching screenshots of roughly the same place in the video pre-cleaning, post-cleaning with TBC, and post-cleaning without TBC. I also have short videos I can share of similar places in those three files if that would be helpful.
That mosaic is odd, but it lie elsewhere. The mere act of __ (still not 100% on every step you took) has "fixed" it. But it had nothing to do with cleaning. It disappeared as inexplicably as it appeared. That's concerning, as it could happen again.
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Originally Posted by aramkolt
I'd have to say it's coincidence that the TBC stopped working at the same time as the cleaning, or could be static damage maybe. I don't hear too many reports of static damage for TBCs, but it's something that is possible and hard to really trace back if it happened.
Agree. Lots of variables right now, too many.
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The capacitors inside of the TBC might need changing and that's probably what I would personally do next because it is relatively straightforward and there's a chance it fixes it.
No. This model TBC has mostly ceramic caps, and only a few high-quality surface mount aluminum caps. I've never seen the model fail due to caps. And I mean never in 20 years. And that's a primary reason this person has this exact unit, as opposed to random DataVideo unit.
I will note that @timtape has seen a different Cypress, the plastic consumer/prosumer model latter AVT-8710, with bad caps. Those is a very specific error, easy to spot, the "attitude problem" the precedes total failure. Errors cascade on it.
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Though I'm not extremely hopeful about that because the noise patterns that it is adding seem very "digital" to me in that they repeat, so could be one of the integrated circuits is bad as well. All speculation though, so take that with a grain of salt.
Yes, grain of salt .... but you did guess well.
When these models go, it's almost always due to the chips failing. However, this person, this exact TBC, it's unlikely ... unless there was some sort of power event, or static event, over the mentioned weekend. But even if that's the case, some of the chips can be replaced, though some are bitlocked.
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Originally Posted by archivistsarah
...
@archivistsarah
This may be something I have to have in-hand to analyze. But we're not there yet.
The PSU would be my first action here. It needs to be replaced. I want to take the PSU discussion to email, so email me. Attach photo of your current PSU.
The "good" news here is that I've seen lots of Cypress TBC errors, and no what to look for, the fixes, etc. The main confusion I have here is actually not the TBC, but the odd patterning from a VS30. That's new. New isn't good. If you'd told me you saw that on your other JVC deck, I can maybe see that (in a mental gymnastics way). But this model?
Hmmm... for the mosaics, I wonder if the s-video cables are at play here. Or your capture card, which I hate (I think, going from memory).
Just breathe, I'll get you taken care of. It's just a "fun" mystery to solve.
We did have a power outage over the weekend before this image issue occurred and the TBC was left plugged in, so potentially that's it?
-- merged --
Ok, folks, late breaking update here -- I just went to get some screengrabs of capture in VirtualDub and the image issue is different, but not gone. It does still appear with the TBC in the chain, and disappears without it.
-- merged --
Just coming back to maybe close a loop or provide help for the next person. This is definitely a TBC issue -- when I remove the TBC from the chain, no issues with the image. When I add the TBC back in, I'm now getting video that looks like this (see attached). I can only assume we had a power surge at some point and something in the TBC is fried. The image looks like this for two different capture/converter devices, so I'm pretty sure it's the TBC and not anything else in the chain.
That's a digital processing issue inside the TBC, A chip may have overheated and now partially functioning, Post some pictures of the inside to see if maybe we can spot something like heat discoloration or some part lifting up.
The capacitors inside of the TBC might need changing and that's probably what I would personally do next because it is relatively straightforward and there's a chance it fixes it. Though I'm not extremely hopeful about that because the noise patterns that it is adding seem very "digital" to me in that they repeat, so could be one of the integrated circuits is bad as well. All speculation though, so take that with a grain of salt.
Well faulty capacitors in a digital circuit can produce "digital" looking errors.
Below is what appears to be the PCB of a 1T-TBC. I've circled the six SMD alum. can caps. As a tech I'd check these for adequate ESR regardless of whether a problem presented at time of testing. A higher than normal ESR means the cap is on the way out and it will just be a matter of time before the unit presents with faults.
LS seems to think this 1T-TBC is similar to the Ambery TBC which I have owned from new. It has only six or seven SMD alum electrolytic caps. After a few years and minimal use I noticed image problems. I checked the SMD caps and found a couple down so replaced them. Problem fixed. Then some time later another picture fault developed. I checked and found another such cap was out of spec, replaced it and that fixed that problem too.
That's not to say there arent other parts at fault but these SMD alum. electrolytic types can be quickly tested in situ and easily replaced by a good tech. There are only six (6) such caps in the pictured 1T-TBC. The tech doesnt have to be an expert in TBC's or video in general. Just familiar with service of general electronic gear and testing and replacing these components.
Well faulty capacitors in a digital circuit can produce "digital" looking errors.
True true, mainly was trying to convey that it didn't look like it was the heads that were damaged specifically which was the initial concern.
Agree that faulty capacitors indeed can make a digital ICs not operate correctly and be the root cause of those digital IC malfunctions and noise patterns.
If a TBC isn't working, I still would stand by recapping the power supply and then the rest of it, especially if SMT caps are present. Purple capacitors or SMTs with purple or red inscriptions on top are typically organic polymer caps, so I don't change those. Wurth-Electronic brand caps like to mess up the scheme and put red markings on their regular SMT caps though, but you are very unlikely to see those in an OEM build of anything vintage luckily.
That's a digital processing issue inside the TBC, A chip may have overheated and now partially functioning, Post some pictures of the inside to see if maybe we can spot something like heat discoloration or some part lifting up.
Photo attached. Anything look amiss?
If I'm testing these capacitors with an ESR meter, are there any brands or specific models you would recommend? Also a source for new capacitors? (amazon carries them but I am suspicious)
First off I would use through hole components not SMD and just bend the legs. The last recap I did for a beta machine I ordered Panasonic caps from Mouser, not just because I want the exact form factor and size as the original through hole caps but I know Panasonic is good, There are other brands but I'm not entirely sure which is good or bad, I don't do a lot of repairs.
If I'm testing these capacitors with an ESR meter, are there any brands or specific models you would recommend? Also a source for new capacitors? (amazon carries them but I am suspicious)
ESR meters are available new on a regular auction site. A commonly used one is the Peak/Atlas ESR70 although frustratingly they dont have probes with sharp metal points. The six(?) SMD caps in your photo look similar to those I circled in the earlier photo. Look at the video I linked to below. There wont necessarily be visual signs of trouble with them. If there is it's usually in the forum of of clearish material leaked out of the caps and onto the board surrounding the caps. This material can damage the board if left there long enough. Any such material should be cleaned off once the old cap is removed.
If the cap ESR indicates they need replacing I wouldnt recommend doing the work without having first learned and practiced the techniques on a surplus electronic board. Removing the old SMD caps has to be done correctly, as with fitting new caps. The board's copper tracks are only glued to the board and are very thin and vulnerable to damage. The correct soldering gear and techniques must be used. Neighbouring components can be damaged in the process. There's little margin for error. The caps are polarised and can only be fitted the one way. In short modern miniaturised electronics circuit boards like this one can be very difficult to repair. They were probably manufactured using specialised robotic machines. Probably most people on this and other forums dont even attempt this work. If this was just a one-off and I had no experience I'd be taking the unit to an experienced tech who does this sort of work every day. At the very least look up some YT videos of experienced techs performing and explaining this type of work.
Testing the caps' ESR is the far easier first step, obviously with no power connected to the TBC. Even so, testing the caps ESR can be fiddly work. Knowledge, concentration and a steady hand is needed.
We did have a power outage over the weekend before this image issue occurred and the TBC was left plugged in, so potentially that's it?
The lesson is to unplug everything, all the time.
Yes, ouch, not good.
Were you leaving this plugged in 24/7?
Or turned on 24/7?
If on, that would be very, very bad.
Does your unit come with the inline power rocker for on/off? (I've done these for years now, and you should have one, but wanted to confirm.)
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Originally Posted by latreche34
That's a digital processing issue inside the TBC, A chip may have overheated and now partially functioning,
^ This.
This specific unit (sub-version of a model line), rarely has caps go out. It's almost always certain chips that overheated. This only happens when it's been on for too long, essentially 8+ hours (full working day). It should never be left on overnight, definitely not over a weekend. Also never left unattended.
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Originally Posted by timtape
LS seems to think this 1T-TBC is similar to the Ambery TBC
Yes and no. The Ambery rebadge (which has several variations) is similar (not the same) as the AVT-8710 rebadge, and both are Cypress. Cypress has variations, differences. The Ambery knowledge only translate up to a point.
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Originally Posted by aramkolt
If a TBC isn't working, I still would stand by recapping the power supply
You must be very careful with the form factor units. Not for a novice, somebody that has never practiced on these before. Even skilled folks I know (we're talking DoD-type EEs here) have screwed the pooch on their first attempt.
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Originally Posted by archivistsarah
Photo attached. Anything look amiss?
No.
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Also a source for new capacitors? (amazon carries them but I am suspicious)
If the cap ESR indicates they need replacing I wouldnt recommend doing the work without having first learned and practiced the techniques on a surplus electronic board. Removing the old SMD caps has to be done correctly, as with fitting new caps. The board's copper tracks are only glued to the board and are very thin and vulnerable to damage. The correct soldering gear and techniques must be used. Neighbouring components can be damaged in the process. There's little margin for error. The caps are polarised and can only be fitted the one way. In short modern miniaturised electronics circuit boards like this one can be very difficult to repair. They were probably manufactured using specialised robotic machines. Probably most people on this and other forums dont even attempt this work.
Heed!
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If this was just a one-off and I had no experience I'd be taking the unit to an experienced tech who does this sort of work every day. At the very least look up some YT videos of experienced techs performing and explaining this type of work.
I would not suggest that. Most people are impressed too easily from Youtubers and technobabble. Any recommendation made for this kind of work need to be direct, not general. For example, if this truly needs what I think it does, then I need to arrange sending it to somebody I know, who has experience on Cypress TBCs. (Not a forum user.)
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Here's one person's take on the work
I'd normally dismiss most Youtubers, but this guy gets my respect, as he discusses risks multiple times. We (sadly) don't hear that enough these days, in our current era of the "internet/Youtube/Google expert". No, people just want to "clean" everything, or "replace" everything, without any regard to secondary consequences. Old-school techs and troubleshoots were never so sloppy and "YOLO" (terrible attitude to take).
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Testing the caps' ESR is the far easier first step, obviously with no power connected to the TBC. Even so, testing the caps ESR can be fiddly work. Knowledge, concentration and a steady hand is needed.
I've noticed how a lot of people fail to recognize their own age and health conditions, and try to solder after a loss of dexterity. Watch for that. It's been hard for me to relent, to admit I can no longer do fine work. But "I got people", most of whom I've passed on some knowledge to..
I didn't see it mentioned and my eyes are a bit too tired (after a long day of work and watching old analog VHS shows while capturing) to read every single post in this thread so apologies if this was already suggested but have you checked the external power supply with a digital multi-meter for proper voltage? My TBC3000 was having herringbone patterns and replacing the 9VDC power supply did the trick, thank goodness!
The following users thank billct97 for this useful post:
lordsmurf (02-04-2025)
I didn't see it mentioned and my eyes are a bit too tired (after a long day of work and watching old analog VHS shows while capturing) to read every single post in this thread so apologies if this was already suggested but have you checked the external power supply with a digital multi-meter for proper voltage? My TBC3000 was having herringbone patterns and replacing the 9VDC power supply did the trick, thank goodness!
I think it was mentioned, and yet not referred to again. Yes, let's circle back to this hopefully simple fix!
If it was me, I'd just replace the 6 SMT caps and not even check the ESRs first because there are so few and if they aren't causing issues now, they likely will eventually. In-circuit ESR can also be affected by surrounding components, so it's not a guaranteed detection method, but good for screening if you have 50+ caps like a lot of devices that aren't the surface mount kind. For the average person that has never recapped surface mount caps, I wouldn't start doing any recapping on something expensive or hard to replace like this though.
The risk of course is that if you don't have much experience, it's possible to damage things either with the soldering iron or by ripping the solder pads off while removing the old capacitors.
I'd recap that for you for $50 including return USA shipping (PM me if interested), though really no guarantee it works after doing so, but it should be around the price of a ESR meter and the bigger thing is you won't have to risk board damage doing it yourself. If you planned to do electronics refurbishing frequently, then yeah, I'd say go with the ESR meter as it is a good tool to have, but not so much if this will be the only project you'll use it for and there are only 6 caps to begin with. I've got those caps in stock and turnaround time would be one business day.
Also agree trying a different power supply is a reasonable first step as well.
Re power supply, it has to be the correct type in all departments. I've seen many expensive units damaged by use of incorrect PS. Just because the plug fits the socket doesn't mean it's correct in all the other ways !
Yes, ouch, not good.
Were you leaving this plugged in 24/7?
Or turned on 24/7?
If on, that would be very, very bad.
Does your unit come with the inline power rocker for on/off? (I've done these for years now, and you should have one, but wanted to confirm.)
I...was indeed leaving it on sometimes (not all the time, but obviously enough times). Did not even occur to me that this would be a bad thing. It doesn't have an external power switch, so I would usually unplug the adapter from the back of the TBC rather than crawl under the desk. This does seem more likely than a power surge, given that it is plugged into a surge protector along with the rest of the electronics in this space.
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I didn't see it mentioned and my eyes are a bit too tired (after a long day of work and watching old analog VHS shows while capturing) to read every single post in this thread so apologies if this was already suggested but have you checked the external power supply with a digital multi-meter for proper voltage? My TBC3000 was having herringbone patterns and replacing the 9VDC power supply did the trick, thank goodness!
Oh this is helpful! I'll track down a multimeter and hopefully that's the issue.
I'm correct in assuming if it is the chip that's been fried, there's no real fix?