Stopping mechanism for DIY tape cleaners?
 

Hi, I think this is in the most appropriate category, if not, feel free to move or delete.

I'm thinking about building my own tape cleaner that I could 3D print and hopefully share with the community if it's good enough.

I've seen some really cool examples, but from what I've seen, they manually slow down and stop the motor at the end as to not cause any blowout. Is there some sort of circuit or mechanism I could implement that could do this for me?

Any thoughts are much appreciated, I learn so much here. Thanks.

Optical sensors are the most common, that's what it is used in the VHS format anyway. Beta uses magnetic sensors since the tapes have metallic leaders instead of clear ones, So if cleaning beta tapes is considered you will have to add magnetic sensors as well.

You could get away with using a cheap VCR by just removing the video drum, cut of the tilted posts next to the P guide rollers, Remove the pinch roller, In the space left by the head install your cleaning apparatus, The only problem is that some modern VCRs would go into shutdown if they don't detect a drum rotation, But that can be mitigated by extending the drum ribbon cable and mount it away from the cleaning area and let it spin away.

Thank you so much for the reply, this gives me a better understanding. So I would probably control the optical and magnetic sensors with a 555 timer IC. Maybe 2 separate ones if it simplifies it enough, I still haven't looked into circuitry for controlling 2 sensors with one 555 chip but I have some theories.

Now where are these sensors typically positioned? Inside one of the reels? Outside one of the reels? Please excuse my ignorance. Positioning the sensors for the exact stop position seems like a difficult job.

I think this slowing down near the end of the wind is normally standard on many better and late model machines. Even tiny mini DV camcorders can have this facility. The speeds of the reels is normally monitored via signals from tacho sensors on the reel tables. It's a great system. No need to reinvent the wheel there.

Just be aware, serious cleaning, especially wet cleaning, rinsing and drying of these tapes without making things worse is no easy matter. Most of us, me included, have never seen up close the cleaning equipment and techniques used by a small number of experts who have been doing this work for a long time. Proceed with great care.

Thanks for the reply. I'm not sure I have the talent to isolate specifically which circuit in the VCR does this without accidentally cutting out something important. Nor do I even know if the parts or their equivalents would still be available. There are a lot of variables. I'd probably have an easier time reinventing the wheel here, I know it sounds silly. If someone felt like circling a portion of a VCR circuit that controls the sensor, that would give me a huge leg up.

*EDIT*

I found this schematic online of a Tape Rewinder, but I don't see any sort of detection mechanisms? Looks pretty basic. Maybe its not very fast to begin with.

I think the VHS is Life people are already operating at close to manufacturing cost. Those are only 115 dollars. I don’t really think an optical sensor is necessary. It would just add manufacturing cost. That isn’t really a set it and forget it thing. All the dust and mold flying around could trip up the optical sensor because with these mold cleaners the reels are out of the cassette. My VHS is Life mold cleaner should be here next week. I am going to clean my moldy tapes outside wish a mask too because it is mold and there are dangers to be aware of.

Wow! I was not aware of their products. Thanks so much! Last I read the VHS cleaners were old and I couldn't find any of the suggested models on ebay. This is great! I guess I don't need to do anything then. They even had my same idea for a vent hood to collect the spores and dust. My design has a rated HEPA filter though, I'm sure his filter probably works okay, but I already have a 190CFM in-line fan for soldering so that should do the job.

*EDIT*

Do you happen to have the password to view the product on their page?

He’s only charging 115 for the unit then the fan is 40 so yeah he could do more but the price would go up. I have an Allen Breath smart hepa filter in that room and I am still cleaning my tapes outside. I live in the country and I have no neighbors so it doesn’t really bug me to take it outside. My wife will be happier with that.

Here’s a video over it. https://youtu.be/OtDTmiSUwXA It’s a popular cleaner. I also recently bought a knock off and due to my inexperience I thought it was good at first then once I messed with it more I figured out that the reels were loose and it was flimsy. Ow well you live and you learn. The actual V.I.L. Units seem to be more solid. L.S. Wouldn’t recommend any of these cleaners. He would recommend spec bros. L.S. Has a point. The best way to avoid mold is to let someone else do it but it is 100 dollars a tape so there’s always a trade off. I see his point though.

Another thing about the HEPA filter is it would not only require more expensive filters but it would make the cost of the vacuum go up and it would increase shipping costs. The motor for the Vacuum would have to be stronger to work effectively because that kind of filter creates a lot more resistance.

I paid almost 700 for my big air filter back in 2013. The replacement filters are 80 dollars a piece. I needed it then because of who I lived with then. It was a good buy because my twin tripped over it and broke it. When he did I called them because they said it had a lifetime warranty and they replaced the unit even though it was my fault and they said they would again if it broke. I was honest with them too.

When you look at the price of HEPA vacuums they are pretty high. It would multiple the cost of the vacuum by several times. You could always just use your own HEPA vacuum if you have one. The vacuum is an optional add on. A vacuum even a HEPA one won’t get everything. It is a good idea to ware a mask and/or be outside.

I made a suggestion last year to the guys making that cleaner to install optical sensors for safety purposes, They said they will consider it in the future, Even if you buy one from them I would suggest adding them, The sensors should be connected in series so when any side triggers the sensor the motor stops regardless which direction it's moving. These are widely available and can be positioned 2mm clear from the bottom edge of the tape and the tape should travel in the center of the slot.

:congrats:

Bolded because true.

I've seen cleaning gear up close. Those $5k RTI were the cheap small "portable" units. Some reminded me of Univac (or a color photo lab processor), large somewhat loud gear, because debris removal was kept securely inside. They don't use these halfwit methods used by the Youtube idiots, who inhale airborne debris (like mold spores), and cover their homes in it.

That's why the machine is a joke to anybody serious about VHS recovery (and later capturing, restoration). I would never let such a poorly "cleaned" tape anywhere near my capturing gear.

I always tell others how I went into anaphylaxis ("anaphylactic shock"), about 7 years ago now, because I was exposed to mold not native to my area (or an area where I'd ever been). I was rushed to the local ER clinic, jabbed in the ass with a needle, and was kept under observation before I could go home.

All those people breathing mold from a VHS tape will suffer some sort of negative issue. Some severe, some not severe. But negative nonetheless. Breathing mold spores is ignorant.

If the tape's contents are not worth $100, honestly, it's not worth doing at all. :hmm:

We recently gave away a unit, to Habitat For Humanity, because of filter costs. It was a late 1990s (or early 2000s) model, filters were $80 to $100. I looked on eBay, and the unit had no value, only new (NOS) filters.

The older I get, the more I do not respect some of these homebrewers/DIY'ers/Kickstarters. They seem to have no care about safety, be it for you, or the object it interacts with. All you get is "it worked for me" and "other people like it", completely missing the point. They have no self awareness that they, and the "other people", don't know as much as they seem to think.

Sometimes people tell me that I need to contact the "inventor" before poo-pooing their "hard work". But from my experience, they don't want to listen anyway, especially if being safer costs more money. They usually want their egos rubbed, and to make the most money possible (even by cutting corners). So it's not just big corporations that are crappy, it's "the little guy" too.

Forgot to mention that cleaning video tapes is not recommended without a good reason such as mold, flood or other contamination, Cleaning tapes because the cassette looks dusty from the outside or the picture doesn't look good will not improve anything and it may worsen the situation, Creased and damaged tapes should not be cleaned or messed with, if you can't recover it the way it is, splice it.

The tape's contents are worth $100 to me.

After reading all these comments, I think I might go forward and spend some time this summer trying to develop one of these. The motors are cheap, and the I'll probably use the sensor assembly linked by latreche34. One upgrade I'm considering is an Arduino. It's cheap and could replace a lot of the circuitry. The electronics alone hopefully shouldn't be more than $30 tops.

Please post all ideas, comments, and guidance here in this thread :D I would sure love that. Most of you have much more experience than I do in this arena.

I have attached a picture of the style of cleaner I would like to build. With options for adding wet towels like the VHS is Life design. I would also like to see if it's feasible to make the Vent hood sliding (up and down) and able to seal around the device completely when in the down position.

The IR gate/optocoupler is the right idea, but I wouldn't use just the IR receiver/LED alone unless you are using something like an Arduino that can do something with the raw output from the infrared receiver.

Would be far simpler to use something like this: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0813L4XQC and then use something like a mosfet or low current draw relay (says it can only drive 15mA) which would cut power to the motor if the light gate becomes open as the clear leader passes through. You would probably need one on each side of the tape, but since you are driving a different motor for FF vs Rew, you'd really just need one of them sensing for each motor on the side where the tape leader would appear based on the direction that the motor is driving.

The VHS is life machine honestly isn't bad for what you get. Only thing I'd probably change is having adjustable positioning for the posts that hold the PEC pads I've used it on some rather moldy U-Matic tapes (though I did have to modify it a bit since full size U-matic hubs are larger than it can fit without running into the vacuum channels, and I added a reverse polarity switch on one of the motors because U-Matic drives both hubs in the same direction for FF/REW, just depends which hub is being driven).

I did think about adding auto stops using the above sensors, but I don't use it nearly enough to justify that and it's not really something that I'd say is meant to be used/left unattended.

This tape played perfectly fine after a few passes with the VHS is life machine. It happens to be a fairly rare Electronic Press Kit for NBC's Gulliver's Travels from 1996 that explains how they made the movie which did have a fair amount of special effects for the time.

Attachment 19399

Attachment 19400

Thank you so much for the input, that sounds perfect. An Arduino definitely sounds like the right path. Also that's such an awesome piece of history you helped restore, thanks man.

I've been going over motors that fit the criteria for direct drive, I'll probably end up going with this one. According to a few calculations, the 12V 60RPM model should offer good direct drive support, not too fast, not too slow @ max speed. 420 inches per minute. (If anyone feels like checking these calculations, feel free!! I'd hate to break my first test tape with a wildly strong motor haha.)

The optocoupler you linked looks perfect. I'll probably get a 5 pack.

Avoid built in gearbox motors at all cost, they have enough torque to rip the tape out of the hub or out of a sticky spot, Use straight motors with high belt ratio and a trimmer pot for the lowest speed without excessive torque, Ideally stepper motors are the best but they do need a control board, but I assume it is not a problem for you since you mentioned you can build a circuit for the optical sensors based on the NE555.

Huh, very interesting. Thanks so much for that tidbit of information. I wonder if I could use one if i find one just under the torque threshold? They have the encoders that make it really easy to use with the Arduino. The problem with that is the size and wattage go down with less torque, and from there, rise the chances of overheating after prolonged sessions (multiple tapes in a row.)

Lot's to think about, I'll look into my options. Thanks again! Your guidance guys has been *Chefs Kiss*

*edit*

I found this stepper motor, looks like it will do the job with 5:1-10:1ish gear ratio. However that would raise the torque to around 8000g/cm. When I think I need to be aiming for about 200-500g/cm. Would this be an issue with a stepper motor? or a non-issue.

With advanced motor control you can actually control the torque on stepper motors to the point that you don't even need optical sensors (though, installing end tape sensors is essential for unexpected failures) by just sensing how much load is put on the motor by mean of measuring the back EMF current if I remember correctly, Another way is to install a tape tensioner sensor to sense how much tension is put on the tape by a spring loaded lever arm coupled wit a potentiometer, Generally speaking torque generated by stepper motors is more controllable compared to geared motors.

Thank you so much for the information. I was able to figure out some of that, but you went into much more detail.

I also decided I'll probably make it battery powered. Some quick maths tell me a 3S lithium-ion battery pack would last all day. It would make it more portable to take outside and make easy work of some tapes.

*Edit*

Does anyone know where I can get smaller spools like the ones in the picture i attached in post #14? That's the one thing I would not want to 3d print since it's in direct contact with the tape.

Those appear to be V8 cassette reels.

Thanks so much for the reply. Unfortunately after a bit of research, it seems VIdeo8 is 8mm, while VHS is 0.5" (12.7mm)

If anyone has a lead on these spools, I would be very grateful.

I know they are 8mm I meant he probably made them out of 8mm reels, You can actually buy two VHS-C cassettes and take the left spindles out of them, but they are easier to model and 3D print, they don't have to be that big, 1" in diameter is all that is needed to do the tape routing job.

Hey everyone, my name is Tony and I own VHS is LIFE which is the mold cleaner that has been discussed here. I was directed here by a member so I just wanted to drop in and say hi!

I would like to state, with due respect to LordSmurf, I do care about the product and the people using it. It's not a money grab nor some quick way to make a buck. I'm a tapehead and put a lot of time and care into this product, specifically for the VHS community (although my cleaner can clean 9 different formats of analog tape) because I and most everyone else have for decades used old VCR's or homemade cleaners or other methods to clean tapes. Tapechek machines are not affordable for most people and the one thing I hated about cleaning tapes or seeing people clean tapes (especially inside) was the mold flying everywhere. I designed my cleaner to use an optional vacuum that will catch a large majority of mold spores. I also advise people to wear a mask when they use it but that's up to them. I tried to create an affordable, easier, quicker, and safer way to clean tapes as opposed to the way it's been done for decades.

I'm old too, 56, so I get what you're saying about the youtubers, kickstarters, "little people", etc. However I'm not one of them. I created a product that I wanted to use and found it something that would benefit the community and allow me to bring other new products to market as well which I have done with my VHS shells and other VHS related products.

Although not perfect by any means, I have sold nearly 1000 units to 42 countries throughout the world. The Smithsonian Institute Archives video lab uses 2 of my cleaners (along with their Tapechek machines), the Derby Museum in the UK has one, 33 universities in the US have at least one cleaner (some have multiple), 63 digitizing services and hundreds of individual users throughout the world is using it.

I get that in a perfect world anyone needing a tape would be able to afford a digitizing service or be able to afford a Tapechek machine, but that's not the case. When Asheville was flooded last year I donated 3 units to a digiziting service that cleaned/digitized hundreds of peoples home movies for free to help them save their memories. These tapes were wet and some caked with mud. They were trying to clean them by hand and once I donated my cleaners they were able to much easier and quicker process peoples tapes.

In short, I just wanted people to know who I am and why I created the cleaner. Yes, it's a buisness and yes there is minimal profit as I provide warranty and service to all my customers. I have been told many times over the past year I could sell it for more and have chose not to. But at heart I also love VHS and the analog format and always have and if my creation can help people across the world clean their tapes to play or digitize them and save those memories then I'm thankful for that and have no regret for trying to create a better mousetrap.

If you care to know more about me or the cleaner drop me a line or contact me via my website anytime. I won't post it as I don't know the rules here about that but it's easy to find.

Thanks for your time..
Tony

Hello. :wave:

What caught my eye is that you're using Pec Pads. You clearly know something. Most people have no clue what Pec Pads are, even photogs, archivists, etc. And good ol' cheap 90%+ IPA, not some fancy "cleaner" junk (which is often even harmful). Barely marked up, too.

I noticed. :)

Or even made, and haven't been for many years.

That's my main issue here. I never see large colorful serious warnings about the dangers of mold. Not on your site, not from Youtubers, etc.

Even using it inside is not ideal, especially not a living space.

Anaphylaxis is no joke. Been there, done that. I like breathing, and I don't like needles in my butt (actually "side butt" aka upper thigh). An epinephrine shot, even insured, costs way more than your device + vacuum setup.

That's really my serious concern here: blatant warnings. The general population is stupid. They need warnings, hand holding even. From what I see, you've opened yourself up to liability. The #1 way to get sued is to make a product that sends them to the doctor or ER. Mold exposure can literally kill somebody, too. Educate your buyers.

(Yes, you'll sometimes run into anti-vaxxer type nuts, refusing any sort of safety/PPE. And they're fully welcome to deeply inhale the aroma of decades-old mold spores. Noting that spores can be active, and harmful, regardless of age. But they're the minority. They're also the ones that want to sue you right away. So "click to agree", warnings, etc. All of it. Inform them, protect yourself.)

I don't necessarily like the product, and think it could be made better -- but not for that price. (I have no love for RTI machines either. Nothing ideal really exists, outside of custom chambers in clean rooms -- and for big costs.)

With proper precautions (outside, PPE, vacuum, etc), it's probably fine for temporary needs.

Also noting that "cleaning" in this manner sometimes ruins tapes. Those messy oxide shedders especially. It'll just strip the mylar clean. That's why I always suggest expert hands for tapes in this condition -- especially if the content matters -- and my suggestion has always gone to SpecBros.

I just have valid safety concerns, while understanding of the low price point ("you get what you pay for").

Take care. :congrats:

Oh, and beware of OSHA. Not directly, but a CPSC referral. When you deal in potentially dangerous stuff, and sell to government entities, watch yourself. They don't play around, nor should they.

LordSmurf, I understand your opinion and viewpoints and respect them. I simply wanted to introduce myself and offer a bit of background on the cleaner.

As to the liability of providing a product or information/advice to a machine that deals with mold, I suppose the same could be said of this thread or any thread on this forum that provides a resource to someone or encourage them to build a product that deals with mold. Liability exists and each person, company, online entity has to take those precautions to protect themselves with such a subject I suppose.

Thanks for your thoughts and responses to my post.

Take care!

It's not analogous whatsoever.

I encourage using SpecBros.

Nice meeting you. :congrats:

Hey all, I thought I'd drop by with an update on some design notes. I can't say I will 100% bring this to fruition but It's on my list of projects, and it's near-ish to the top.

Design Goals:
21700 3S Battery Sled built-in for outdoor use for 8+ hours
Semi-Sealable Hood, with ~150cfm fan & HEPA filter built into one compact unit that sits on top
Plexiglass 4 sided shield (if budget allows)
3 spool + 2 spool system (like the attached pic in post #13)
Towel Clips – pec pads?
Auto Stop – Hopefully I’m able to use both tension and infrared sensors
Precise speed control via arduino & stepper motor
Aprox. 8” x 10” work area + control panel
Keep price under $150 to keep attainable
Custom cleaning cycles
Speaker, Beeps alert when cycle finished
Resistive Touchscreen
Based on Raspberry pi Pico ($4)

The Protoypting costs are over $100, I'm hoping I can get the final price below $150. Coding is my weak point but my brother will be able to help me out there.

I'm open to suggestions as long as they seem within my skill level to implement.

I had a question, in an earlier thread today I looked up a few mold cleaning services in Europe, and I came across an image on this webpage: https://www.filmfix.com/en/blog/what...ing-vhs-tapes/

I've also attached a picture of it below.

It seems to be using some sort of "paper tape rolls" as they call it. To clean. Now I'm wondering is this any better or worse than using pec pads? It seems to roll along with it and they're able to replace it as needed.

Also, what sort of paper rolls are they using? Cleanroom paper? I'm having a hard time finding something similar. Of course they must be lint free, but what are they?

Thanks in advance for any help.